48 réponses à ce sujet

[Topographer]

Can anyone give me some numbers to shoot for as an archer? Dex? Cunning?

[Elhanan]

Topographer wrote...

Can anyone give me some numbers to shoot for as an archer? Dex? Cunning?

I prefer 30 Cunning, 38-42 STR, max DEX with the usual in other attributes in DAO. STR will increase a bit for DAA, but otherwise just add more DEX. This is for Master Archer builds using heavy armor.

[termokanden]

Archers scale so much with dex in DAA that I think it's a bit of a shame to spend loads of points in other stuff. Maybe for soloing you would want heavy armor, but generally I don't see it being worth it when the alternative is so good.



In Origins however strength is just fine.

[Elhanan]

termokanden wrote...

Archers scale so much with dex in DAA that I think it's a bit of a shame to spend loads of points in other stuff. Maybe for soloing you would want heavy armor, but generally I don't see it being worth it when the alternative is so good.

In Origins however strength is just fine.

While Accuracy does make the most of DEX, those other points in STR for better armor comes in handy for the continuing diet of Overwhelm spam, Grabs, etc And as I enjoy playing Rogue Archers, it goes well with the Legion spec, too.

[soteria]

Mm. I'm never a fan of heavy armor on a rogue, and less so for an archer. Archers are more out of the line of fire and even more starved for stamina than backstabbers. Not only are their talents expensive, but also they don't get feast of the fallen to help.  And that's not even factoring in the wasted stats from dividing points so many ways.

Modifié par soteria, 05 janvier 2011 - 04:11 .

[Mr_Steph]

I tried something new on my last archer and she ended up pretty darn good IMO.



http://social.biowar...na_id=224812973



I only ever use light armor on my rogues and on archers I can't see why you would want high armor. You are no where near the enemy and if you draw aggro you can use stealth or a tank use taunt etc. to get them away from you again.

[Elhanan]

soteria wrote...

Mm. I'm never a fan of heavy armor on a rogue, and less so for an archer. Archers are more out of the line of fire and even more starved for stamina than backstabbers. Not only are their talents expensive, but also they don't get feast of the fallen to help.  And that's not even factoring in the wasted stats from dividing points so many ways.

I am not a number cruncher, but can atest to this working very well including GoA. Forget the last fight as it was simply an exercise in patience and kiting, but the entire game series. Perhaps a 'normal' light armored Rogue with max DEX would kill a bit faster, but the heavy armored version can take a beating and keep on ticking away again and again. And as long as the game has Overwhelm from start to finish, that works for me.

If you have the time with your Tech expertise and experience in play, perhaps you could crunch those figures, and see what the real difference is in both DAO & DAA?

[termokanden]

Not much number crunching to do. Look up Accuracy here:
http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Accuracy

This to me says very simply that you should max out dex in Awakening as an archer. As a rogue with the Legion specialization you can get to wear top tier light armor without spending many points in strength at all. Not only does this leave more room for dex, but just look at the actual top tier armor for archers - it's pretty much all rogue only light armor.

In Origins, go ahead and take heavy armor for a rogue archer. There is no real downside there unless you are planning on a cunning-based build. But in Awakening I think you are sacrificing too much. Even my warrior archer didn't have more than 25 strength, just enough for Death Blow.

Modifié par termokanden, 05 janvier 2011 - 04:49 .

[Elhanan]

termokanden wrote...

Not much number crunching to do. Look up Accuracy here:
http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Accuracy

This to me says very simply that you should max out dex in Awakening as an archer. As a rogue with the Legion specialization you can get to wear top tier light armor without spending many points in strength at all. Not only does this leave more room for dex, but just look at the actual top tier armor for archers - it's pretty much all rogue only light armor.

In Origins, go ahead and take heavy armor for a rogue archer. There is no real downside there unless you are planning on a cunning-based build. But in Awakening I think you are sacrificing too much. Even my warrior archer didn't have more than 25 strength, just enough for Death Blow.

Already knew of Accuracy, but an alternative build offers some nice options, including both armor and weapons. I like these:

http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Fleet_Feet

http://dragonage.wik...haser_Gauntlets

http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Corruption



Greater STR increases item options, as well as the STR related bonuses.

Modifié par Elhanan, 05 janvier 2011 - 07:50 .

[ReplicantZero]

Zjarcal wrote...
Assassin is the one spec that really doesn't go well with Archery, which is why it was so frustrating that Nate was built as an archer in Awakening.

Mark of Death was still useful to have for bosses though. Nate with full archer spec was probably one of the most lethal characters on my team - his autoattack damage was well over 100, even before considering his near 50% crit chance. Probably down to running with Accuracy permanently on plus having rather good gear.

[soteria]

Elhanan wrote...
If you have the time with your Tech expertise and experience in play, perhaps you could crunch those figures, and see what the real difference is in both DAO & DAA?

I think you have me confused with Random70.   My focus has always been more on tactics than character building, but this might be worth trying.  I've always been interested in how archer damage actually compares to melee damage, as well.  The question we are trying to ascertain is threefold, as I understand: 

1. What is the actual damage difference between the archer builds (dex, cun, str)?
2. What difference does the additional gear make?
3. Answer those questions for both Origins and Awakening.

Correct?  I can't really measure how tough a build is.  There's too many variables.  The main problem is that I'm not in a place where I have access to my desktop--that is, I can't get into the game.  In few weeks I can probably try to test this if no one else has done it first and if anyone is still interested.  I mean, DA2 comes out in like 3 months...

[Last Darkness]

As discussed here already.



Basicaly the problem with the majority of archers is they are built terribly wroung. They are also subject to Xbow/Bow damage modifier bugs on the consoles(You cna fix this on the PC).

[Elhanan]

@Soteria - looks correct, and Thanks if you do get the time. Your eye for tactics may be even better than exact figures like DPS and the like.

Modifié par Elhanan, 06 janvier 2011 - 07:10 .

[termokanden]

You could also read the link I posted, because it does tell you exactly what the damage difference is for each point spent in dex rather than strength. Look up Song of Courage also, and you can compare it with cunning based builds.

In Origins, it's also easy since strength and dex provide the same amount of damage. Cunning provides slightly more with Song of Courage at the cost of attack.

As for how well the builds actually perform in the game, you'd obviously have to experiment with them to find out.

[Zahe]

Archers aren't nearly as bad as some people make them out to be. Rush Aim and everything else is downhill. The first four~ levels suck since you tend to miss a lot but once you get Aim it is taken care off.

Another fun variant is just pumping DEX and rushing Arrow of Slaying. Not as good to be frank, but fulfilling the Heavy Hitter requirement by level five is hilarious.

Modifié par Zahe, 08 janvier 2011 - 12:49 .

[Aelor_EA]

I tend to want to give something a shot when a lot of people say it's not powerful. First of all, for me, a character doesn't need to be the most powerful build to be fun to play. I love underdog builds, so it's fine with me.



My main character is a warrior, but I do like the rogue I got, and I set her up as an archer. Still need to work on my tactics settings, but I'll look some stuff up. I think when used right, tactically this class can be great. Not everything has to be a nuker right?



Also there's some buff talents on mages you can use, like Haste. It's a Tier-4 spell, but still, for me it'll be one to take. Wynn will be my healer and buffer, with of course also some magic attacks



Anyway, what I'm tyring to say, just have fun, you can end the game with an archer, if it's not the fastest road, that doesn't mean it's not the most fun road.

[Marbazoid]

I remember a similar sort of skepticism surrounding two-handed warriors not long after the game came out. A properly built archer is the most convenient class when it comes to taking out high priority targets. A melee rogue will deal more damage, but the archer has the advantage of range, so they can respond immediately, without the delay of getting into a flanking position.

Early game, it can feel pretty ordinary, though I would argue that the warrior and rogue classes on the whole are very weak early game, no matter your chosen weapon style.

Modifié par Marbazoid, 08 janvier 2011 - 01:12 .

[termokanden]

Marbazoid wrote...

I remember a similar sort of skepticism surrounding two-handed warriors not long after the game came out. A properly built archer is the most convenient class when it comes to taking out high priority targets. A melee rogue will deal more damage, but the archer has the advantage of range, so they can respond immediately, without the delay of getting into a flanking position.

A melee rogue can start the fight in close range and keep some targets, particularly mages, stunned until they are dead.

I will argue as I have before that the only problem with archers is that their talents take too long to use compared to melee talents. However, Scattershot is so insanely good that it almost makes up for all of this alone.

[Marbazoid]

termokanden wrote...

Marbazoid wrote...

I remember a similar sort of skepticism surrounding two-handed warriors not long after the game came out. A properly built archer is the most convenient class when it comes to taking out high priority targets. A melee rogue will deal more damage, but the archer has the advantage of range, so they can respond immediately, without the delay of getting into a flanking position.

A melee rogue can start the fight in close range and keep some targets, particularly mages, stunned until they are dead.

I will argue as I have before that the only problem with archers is that their talents take too long to use compared to melee talents. However, Scattershot is so insanely good that it almost makes up for all of this alone.

That tactic assumes too much, your melee rogue is still going to have to close into melee range to lock down targets, where as the archer can respond and take action from wherever they are positioned.

[Elhanan]

Where I luv to play an Archer is when returning to Denerim to face the Darkspawn. A rapid aim device can help gain almost a lvl right there at the gates!

*some exaggeration may be included*

Modifié par Elhanan, 10 janvier 2011 - 04:32 .

[termokanden]

I assume too much? You are forgetting about stealth. It allows you to start any fight exactly where you want. Behind that enemy mage perhaps. It's true that you do have to run over to any other targets, but that really isn't a big deal. The archer isn't going to kill two targets at once anyway (at least not before Awakening).

Elhanan wrote...

Where I luv to play an Archer is when returning to Denerim to face the Darkspawn. A rapid aim device can help gain almost a lvl right there at the gates!

I really don't like that fight. It's ridiculously easy and entirely pointless. Yes archers don't have to run around as much. That's nice at least. It's funny how you can kill the darkspawn and they still have to run to their starting position before they drop dead.

Modifié par termokanden, 10 janvier 2011 - 04:33 .

[Elhanan]

termokanden wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Where I luv to play an Archer is when returning to Denerim to face the Darkspawn. A rapid aim device can help gain almost a lvl right there at the gates!

I really don't like that fight. It's ridiculously easy and entirely pointless. Yes archers don't have to run around as much. That's nice at least. It's funny how you can kill the darkspawn and they still have to run to their starting position before they drop dead.

heh! I think it is because I can kill 'em so quickly, they don't know they're dead yet!
 

[Drudgep]

I'm at lvl 17 with my Rogue Archer in a play through on hard, and Archers are def. viable.



Pros:

- Great Burst- if you come up to a mob with a pesky caster in the back, towards end game you should be able to one shot it before it can do any damage



- CC- with Kick, and the stuns, both melee and ranged you can keep enemies off you, even if you have aggro on them

[termokanden]

Elhanan wrote...

heh! I think it is because I can kill 'em so quickly, they don't know they're dead yet!
 

More fun if you imagine that. But kind of sad when you know it's not true