53 réponses à ce sujet

[1483749283]

I must say, both ME2 and DAO have had outstanding story telling, really setting new a standard for Bioware (which is already the standard bearer of this genre, world-wide). I enjoyed them more than previous Bioware games. However, I've noticed that we've lost the plot twists somewhere along the way. I quite miss them. Let's see:

• BG1: finding the letter from your adoptive father in Candlekeep
• BG2: a number of them, for me the Slayer beast.
• KotoR: Revan. The jaw heard dropping 'round the world.
• Jade Empire: always layers upon layers.
• ME1: nature of Sovereign, nature of conduit.

Strangely enough, as much as both DAO and ME2 were better written than their predecessors, they unfolded along completely predictable lines (I wouldn't call the ending of ME2 a plot twist as it comes at the end...). This was particularly true of DAO.... I mean there were plenty of small surprises, but they were all very little. We marshalled our allies, we dealt with Loghain one way or the other, and we beat the archdemon.

How much I enjoyed DAO and ME2 tells me that I don't need plot twists, but they do really make for memorable moments, especially if you're not expecting them.

[CruserBoii]

*SPOILERS FROM ME2*

I thought finding out The Collectors were once Protheans was a pretty big plot twist in ME2.

[AndrahilAdrian]

I fully agree with this. Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2 actually had very boring plots, but were saved by good writing and deep characters (in DA's case) and cinematic presentation (in ME2's case). I really hope DA2 has a more complex plotline

[Chuvvy]

One of the best plot twists is in Bioshock.

Also I agree ME2 and DAO had lackluster plot twists.

Modifié par Slidell505, 28 novembre 2010 - 07:20 .

[Blacklash93]

CruserBoii wrote...

*SPOILERS FROM ME2*
I thought finding out The Collectors were once Protheans was a pretty big plot twist in ME2.

You say it as if everyone didn't already assume that months prior to the game's release.

That was the most popular theory on them when the 2nd ME novel came out, which was at least a year before ME2 was released.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 28 novembre 2010 - 07:34 .

[Saibh]

Blacklash93 wrote...

CruserBoii wrote...

*SPOILERS FROM ME2*
I thought finding out The Collectors were once Protheans was a pretty big plot twist in ME2.

You say it as if everyone didn't already assume that months prior to the game's release.

What we here do with our hive mind and fanatical analyzing of every released detail is very different than the other suppositions people make.

Modifié par Saibh, 28 novembre 2010 - 07:32 .

[Face of Evil]

I remember my stomach sinking when I first learned that the Warden who killed the Archdemon must die. That was a fairly shocking plot development.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 28 novembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[Blacklash93]

Saibh wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

CruserBoii wrote...

*SPOILERS FROM ME2*
I thought finding out The Collectors were once Protheans was a pretty big plot twist in ME2.

You say it as if everyone didn't already assume that months prior to the game's release.

What we here do with our hive mind and fanatical analyzing of every released detail is very different than the other suppositions people make.

Excuse the exaggeration of "everyone", but there were a good number of topics theorizing that well before ME2 was even announced.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 28 novembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[P_k_r]

Here's to hoping that the narrower focus on delivering a personalised story will allow for more plot twists. And here's to hoping that those plot twists won't be recognised from the get go. If they pull off something like Jade Empire or KOTOR I'll be happy.

[Saibh]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Excuse the exaggeration of "everyone", but there was a good number of topics theorizing that well before ME2 was even announced.

Here. Yes. We are a tiny portion of the fanbase. My point is, what we here are able to deduce doesn't reflect what everyone will assume.

[AlexXIV]

Saibh wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

CruserBoii wrote...

*SPOILERS FROM ME2*
I thought finding out The Collectors were once Protheans was a pretty big plot twist in ME2.

You say it as if everyone didn't already assume that months prior to the game's release.

What we here do with our hive mind and fanatical analyzing of every released detail is very different than the other suppositions people make.

I agree. With the amount of theories floating around in this forum alone it is unlikely one of them isn't true. And someone's gonna shout 'I knew it, I knew it!' inevitably.

[Blacklash93]

I'm not trying to gloat or anything. I'm just saying that I found that plot twist quite obvious and I'm sure many others who indulged in such speculation did, too. Sorry I over-generalized, if that's what you're calling me out on.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 28 novembre 2010 - 07:58 .

[True Zarken]

Varric is Hawke. Varric has DID (Dissociative identity disorder). =)

[DarthCaine]

The only that was really surprising was KOTOR's.

Anyway, since DA2 uses a framed narrative and spans 10 years, there will be a lot things happening off screen and the story the Narrator tells might not be what really happened.

I think it would be really cool if there was a plot twist where Hawke actually did things quite differently from what the public knows. For example, let's say in a spy story you're searching for a mole and in the end in turns out you ARE the mole, just that things happened off screen that the player knows nothing about (I know this sounds stupid written like this, but it would be really cool if executed/directed well)

Modifié par DarthCaine, 28 novembre 2010 - 08:08 .

[jackkel dragon]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I'm not trying to gloat or anything. I'm just saying that I found that plot twist quite obvious and I'm sure many others who indulged in such speculation did, too. Sorry I over-generalized, if that's what you're calling me out on.

The problem was that whole reveal was so poorly done that no one really cares. (At least I didn't.) It was "Oh by the way, these guys are... new gun!"

I have to say I'd like a Jade Empire-like reveal in DA2. I'm not as keen on the KOTOR twist, but that doesn't seem like an option from what we've learned so far. But in Jade Empire, there were hints along the way (great for replays) and the actual twist comes almost out of the blue. (Having been spoiled, and noticing the spoilerific "chapter summary," it was mostly when it was going to happen that was new, and it still got me by surprise.)

Of course, it can't be done exactly like JE or it'd be predictable and derivative. But a "friend" who turns out to be the villain might make for a decent plot point somewhere.

[jackkel dragon]

DarthCaine wrote...

The only that was really surprising was KOTOR's.

Anyway, since DA2 uses a framed narrative and spans 10 years, there will be a lot things happening off screen and the story the Narrator tells might not be what really happened.

I think it would be really cool if there was a plot twist where Hawke actually did things quite differently from what the public knows. For example, let's say in a spy story you're searching for a mole and in the end in turns out you ARE the mole, just that things happened off screen that the player knows nothing about (I know this sounds stupid written like this, but it would be really cool if executed/directed well)

Note that what we play is supposedly what happened. But I'd like the idea of Varric telling Cassie that wrong story (after having told him to "forget this ever happened" during the gameplay sequence, or something like that.)

And I hope we do get to play a different story than what the public knows. Using your example, we get an "exagerrated" scene where we're hunting the mole, but Cassandra somehow sees through Varric's bluff/hiding behind the common legend and we get to play *being* the mole.

[theriddlen]

Who cares about plot twists in BioWare games. Idiots will spoil everything in first trailer.



The thing you've done to beginning of ME2 was murder. You killed the mood.

[jackkel dragon]

theriddlen wrote...

Who cares about plot twists in BioWare games. Idiots will spoil everything in first trailer.

The thing you've done to beginning of ME2 was murder. You killed the mood.

Thay killed more than that...

[HighMoon]

Perhaps Bioware will pull an "Atonement" and have Varric make up a certain part of the story, only for us to see (or play through) the real events through Hawke's POV.

[1483749283]

It was amazing with JE. My first play through, I didn't see it coming at all... I actually thought I'd beaten the game just before it happened. The second play through, I was amazed that I hadn't seen it coming, as there were many hints.

How about this: Joinable NPC who romances you then betrays you... only to regret or not regret their choice with numerous possible outcomes based on decision taken by Hawke prior to betrayal. Hasn't been done yet.

While I didn't see Morrigan's offer coming in DAO, before she started speaking in Redcliffe, I was expecting a full-on battle with her (despite having romanced her), and was somewhat disappointed to see that it was merely an offer. I mean, a huge battle with your LI, followed by possible reconcilation or not depending on prior choices, with huge implications for the ending---that would be super.

jackkel dragon wrote...

I have to say I'd like a Jade Empire-like reveal in DA2. I'm not as keen on the KOTOR twist, but that doesn't seem like an option from what we've learned so far. But in Jade Empire, there were hints along the way (great for replays) and the actual twist comes almost out of the blue. (Having been spoiled, and noticing the spoilerific "chapter summary," it was mostly when it was going to happen that was new, and it still got me by surprise.)

[Isaidlunch]

While I really enjoyed Kotor, I prefer the direction ME2 + DA:O went in. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved finding out that big secret in Kotor. It's good to have a jaw-dropping world-shattering plot twist once in a while but flood every game with them and I'll feel like I'm playing a soap opera rather than a video game. Memorable moments like the Landsmeet or the Suicide Mission can define a game just as well as a plot twist can.

[slimgrin]

Crazy plot twists can be a gimmick. I thought DA did just fine without them.

[Crimson Invictus]

I must admit. of the ones I've experienced on that list, they didn't surprise me so I didn't miss the lack of any major "twists" in Origins.

[Shepard Lives]

I liked the Collectors-Prothean twist in ME2. It wasn't too influential to the main plot, but it did leave me pretty speechless.

The KOTOR twist was great because it had buildup. That was the key. You had the visions, Bastila's odd behavior, Karath whispering something to Carth before dying. You knew something wasn't right. It's not like Malak popped outta nowhere and said "u r revan lolololol".



So, my two cents are: I'd very much enjoy an earthshattering twist in DA2 if it were properly written (and I am adamantly certain the writers could make it so), but I'd prefer an engaging, well-thought out storyline with much emotional involvement.