934 réponses à ce sujet

[Alet]

Ryzaki wrote...

Which begs the question if she doesn't trust Hawke's judgement why exactly is she following him?

There's a difference between trusting someone's judgement and allowing them to dress you.  One is a bond of respect and another is infantilizing (in our culture, and Feredlen's doesn't seem too different on this point, being able to dress yourself is on the same category as being able to crap unassisted and tie your shoes -- something you should get a hang of pretty early on and not need any more help with).

And this isn't what you meant, but there's tons of reasons to follow someone even if you don't trust their judgement -- monetary gain, status/fame, conveinence, hate (maybe she's going to betray Hawke halfway through!), boredom, or a variety of plot-specific circumstances that could make it so that the most advantageous thing for Isabella to do is stick around and see what this Hawke lady gets up to -- until something better comes along.

[Ryzaki]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
They affect how I view the characters progress- ah forget it this is pointless.

I know that it is important to you. You don't need to keep bringing that up because I already understand it. What's pointless is trying to make the conection from "it's important to me" to "it effects getting from Point A to Point B." The two concepts are unrelated. Nothing about how the cloths looks changes anything about how you get from Point A to Point B in the game, though it does effect how much you personally enjoy the game. (again, presumably)

Like I said pointless.

It does effect getting from point a to point b. But I'm not going to even bother.

[Qset]

fchopin wrote...


And why are the developers saying nothing? are they afraid?
There are no spoilers in telling us if we are able to change garments in the game.

an excellent question - to which I have no answer. I guess the Bioware team have their reasons.

Speculation makes the forum busy, drives discussion probably outside of the forums in the wider gaming community and will generate interest, right now they could be working on the theory that any publicity is good publicity, providing a hook if you will so that they have lots of little fishies ready to be fed more information

Please note that the section in italics is purely guesswork on my part with no basis in fact.

[Ryzaki]

Alet wrote...

There's a difference between trusting someone's judgement and allowing them to dress you.  One is a bond of respect and another is infantilizing (in our culture, and Feredlen's doesn't seem too different on this point, being able to dress yourself is on the same category as being able to crap unassisted and tie your shoes -- something you should get a hang of pretty early on and not need any more help with).

And this isn't what you meant, but there's tons of reasons to follow someone even if you don't trust their judgement -- monetary gain, status/fame, conveinence, hate (maybe she's going to betray Hawke halfway through!), boredom, or a variety of plot-specific circumstances that could make it so that the most advantageous thing for Isabella to do is stick around and see what this Hawke lady gets up to -- until something better comes along.

True but cursing someone out for offering sound advice? That's ridculous. There was no respect in that exchange you did.

The second paragraph is true though. Thankfully the woman is optional.

[the_one_54321]

Ryzaki wrote...
It does effect getting from point a to point b. But I'm not going to even bother.

No, please bother. If it effects how you get from Point A to Point B in the game please explain it to me because I don't see how it could possibly have that kind of an effect. (based on what we know right now, anyway) 

If someone else here agrees with her, feel free to take up her argument and explain to me how changing the appearance of the cloths changes how you get from Point A to Point B in the game? 

Though please note that someone already brought up the notion of spending all kinds of time customizing the appearance of things for their own pleasure. I understand how people enjoy that but it's also been made quite clear through pages or rather arduous dispute over what is or isn't gameplay.

Right now we're talking about: 

Changing the apearance of cloths
-what effect does it have.

Gameplay
-actions/choices that move the game through its paces/progression/plot from beginning to end.

[Aermas]

I cannot trust someone if they are foolish enough to think they could live when fighting without armor.

My argument is that only ONE character is known to wear armor, & I doubt that this will effect mechanics,(only visuals) so how the hell could a person in armor take the same number of hits?(barring constitution & runes)

[Johnny Chaos]

not every duelist, swordsmen wears armor. when i fenced i wore some nice tights and a comfortable leather jacket.

[Alet]

Ryzaki wrote...

True but cursing someone out for offering sound advice? That's ridculous. There was no respect in that exchange you did.

The second paragraph is true though. Thankfully the woman is optional.

Ok so we've got a cultural difference here.  I curse my friends out multiple times a day as a sign of affection, and that's how they take it.  I very rarely swear at people when I'm angry, or people I don't like -- in fact, if I don't like or respect someone, I'm much more likely to keep conversation rigidly polite (and minimal).  You aren't like me -- most people aren't.  No big.

[Aermas]

Johnny Chaos wrote...

not every duelist, swordsmen wears armor. when i fenced i wore some nice tights and a comfortable leather jacket.

What weapon & style?

[RazoricX]

David Gaider wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
It wouldn´t be that bad if this had started on Origins. It didn´t, and no matter how much BW seem to make less of that game (at least I´m getting that impression), the setting is established with warriors using armors.

How the armor looks in the game is an issue of style, and is changing along with many other things. We're not making less of DAO, but we are indeed changing our approach with regards to presentation. Either you're willing to give it a chance or you're not-- deal with it or move on.

"Deal with it?"   Come on man...

Dragon Age: Origins was pushed by you guys as a return to the classic RPG-era.  The Baldur's Gate Bioware was back!  Guess what, you sold us on it.  And now you get snippy with unhappy fans that don't like that you are stripping away the very things that sold us on Dragon Age in the first place?  

I'm going to give it a chance because I like Bioware games and  I hope it wont matter once I'm into the game but this whole armor nonsense bums me out.  Didn't like it in ME2, most likely wont like it here.  Stripping away customization options and choice is never a good thing no matter how much you sugar coat it, IMO.

Modifié par RazoricX, 30 novembre 2010 - 11:28 .

[Dave of Canada]

RazoricX wrote...

Dragon Age: Origins was pushed by you guys as a return to the classic RPG-era.

That was Origins, though. This is DA2. Did they say "All Dragon Ages will be classic RPGs"?

Stripping away customization options and choice is never a good thing no matter how much you sugar coat it, IMO.

I'd disagree.

[Alet]

Aermas wrote...

I cannot trust someone if they are foolish enough to think they could live when fighting without armor.
My argument is that only ONE character is known to wear armor, & I doubt that this will effect mechanics,(only visuals) so how the hell could a person in armor take the same number of hits?(barring constitution & runes)

Well, we only know three characters and two of them aren't warriors.  It's not even certain that Varric engages in combant on a regular basis, at least before he meets Hawke.  I'm not trying to be confrontational, just to understand something here -- is it being suggested that two people standing still, one in armor and one in thigh-highs and a necklace, with the exact same HP pool, will take the same amount of damage, which will occur over the same number of hits?  Because I don't see that.  The variables I see that are affected by armor is how often you are hit (less armor for same relative skill level means less likely to be hit) and how much damage you take per hit (less armor for same relative skill means you will take more damage per hit).  There's an interplay between the two meaning that under some circumstances, one will be preferable, but maybe/probably not under different circumstances.  The "hits you can take" equation is further confounded by how much the player decides to invest in constitution, which almost certainly wouldn't be the same for someone wearing heavy armor v. someone wearing light armor.

[Qset]

In Exile wrote...

Qset wrote...
As I stated earlier - this has not been proven yet if we use DAO as a benchmark of companion stat customisation ability. We have only been told some level of customisation is possible via the following mechanics:

1. some sort of rune customisation mechanic - details not defined but indicated that has some similarity to DAO.
2. companion outfits upgrade by themselves over game world time duration
3. all other inventory slots (not outfit slot) can have equipment changes as per DAO.

You might want to reinforce that concrete with some dev quotes but I have been unable to find one that says there will be an equivalent level of stat customisation possible.

I'm not sure I would file that under armour. What affected the gameplay in DA:O was the statistical distribution. If you wanted more armour on a rogue, that meant an STR build unless you wanted to gimp your character.

We don't have enough information to know how DA2 will handle builds in general for any character. I would assume DA2 gives you new ways to gimp your characters, though, so fret not.

Ok, now show me where I mentioned armour in my post above. Points 1 to 3 cover all inventory slots and not just armor.

Of course we know that
"What affected the gameplay in DA:O was the statistical distribution. If you wanted more armour on a rogue, that meant an STR build unless you wanted to gimp your character"
That information is widely available from many public sources and most players who have played DAO understand that, hardly a revelation there is it 

My question is
- can I perform the equivalent level of stat customisation via companion inventory that I could in DAO. By stat customisation here I don't mean just str and dex etc, I mean apply the same level of statisical distribution/customisation that I could in DAO.

You are of course right,
"We don't have enough information to know how DA2 will handle builds in general for any character."

So maybe a more sensible question would be
- Is my first question even relevant under the DA2 mechanics, will I either be unable to match DAO levels of customisation because a. game mechanics no longer require it or b. game mechanics prevent it due to class separations or c. any other reason the Bioware team define.

"I would assume DA2 gives you new ways to gimp your characters, though, so fret not. "

This I just found patronising

[Drasanil]

In Exile wrote...

Drasanil wrote...
But will Varic's coat with the right combination of runes/upgrades/whatever allow you to use him in a similar manner to Zevran decked out in Juggernaught armor? I doubt it, hence it is a net gameplay loss from one game to the other no?

You mean gimped? I'm sure there will be new and creative ways to create inferior builds.

How? It's a PVE game not a PVP one, I must of failed to notice Zev was gimped given he almost never dropped dead. The need to use cookie cutter builds says more about your ability, or rather lack there of, than anything else.

[_Cheveyo]

I agree with the idea that clothing should be about style/protection more then effect the over all game play. It was nice to add to enchantments in clothing in Awakenings but that isn't the best part of this game. I only wish I had been able to effect the ' old friend that returned ' in Awakenings... Another topic but thought is was great idea with at least 4 characters to choice.We could have a different returning friend depending on the background of choice changing the story from City Elf to Mage or Noble. I thought that was the new idea Dragon Age was working on compared to other games? My character has fought naked in DA and Awakenings fun because if I was weak I still was going to get my @ss kicked clothing or not.

[Blastback]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
It does effect getting from point a to point b. But I'm not going to even bother.

No, please bother. If it effects how you get from Point A to Point B in the game please explain it to me because I don't see how it could possibly have that kind of an effect. (based on what we know right now, anyway) 

If someone else here agrees with her, feel free to take up her argument and explain to me how changing the appearance of the cloths changes how you get from Point A to Point B in the game? 

Though please note that someone already brought up the notion of spending all kinds of time customizing the appearance of things for their own pleasure. I understand how people enjoy that but it's also been made quite clear through pages or rather arduous dispute over what is or isn't gameplay.

Right now we're talking about: 

Changing the apearance of cloths
-what effect does it have.

Gameplay
-actions/choices that move the game through its paces/progression/plot from beginning to end.

I'd say that it affected how my party functioned in battle.  If I had a choice between suit A, which had the best stats in the game, but looked aweful, and suit B, which had slightly lesser stats but looked cool, then I choose B.  Which did affect my party member's performance.

The balance between aesthetics and stats helped, in my case, prevent powergameing.

Modifié par Blastback, 30 novembre 2010 - 11:40 .

[the_one_54321]

Blastback wrote...
I'd say that it affected how my party functioned in battle.  If I had a choice between suit A, which had the best stats in the game, but looked aweful, and suit B, which had slightly lesser stats but looked cool, then I choose B.  Which did affect my party member's performance.

Ok, but this gets back to what you and I just said earlier. That's DA:O. What about DA][? If we can manipulate the stats the same way, but the clothing doesn' t look different, then what?

[Blastback]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Blastback wrote...
I'd say that it affected how my party functioned in battle.  If I had a choice between suit A, which had the best stats in the game, but looked aweful, and suit B, which had slightly lesser stats but looked cool, then I choose B.  Which did affect my party member's performance.

Ok, but this gets back to what you and I just said earlier. That's DA:O. What about DA][? If we can manipulate the stats the same way, but the clothing doesn' t look different, then what?

Sorry, check again for the edit.  It balanced how I played, kept me from focusing on just stats.  Now, that element has been removed with regard to party members.

[Aermas]

Alet wrote...

Aermas wrote...

I cannot trust someone if they are foolish enough to think they could live when fighting without armor.
My argument is that only ONE character is known to wear armor, & I doubt that this will effect mechanics,(only visuals) so how the hell could a person in armor take the same number of hits?(barring constitution & runes)

Well, we only know three characters and two of them aren't warriors.  It's not even certain that Varric engages in combant on a regular basis, at least before he meets Hawke.  I'm not trying to be confrontational, just to understand something here -- is it being suggested that two people standing still, one in armor and one in thigh-highs and a necklace, with the exact same HP pool, will take the same amount of damage, which will occur over the same number of hits?  Because I don't see that.  The variables I see that are affected by armor is how often you are hit (less armor for same relative skill level means less likely to be hit) and how much damage you take per hit (less armor for same relative skill means you will take more damage per hit).  There's an interplay between the two meaning that under some circumstances, one will be preferable, but maybe/probably not under different circumstances.  The "hits you can take" equation is further confounded by how much the player decides to invest in constitution, which almost certainly wouldn't be the same for someone wearing heavy armor v. someone wearing light armor.

I made a note of excluding constitution. Right at the end.
Let me rephrase my point. If Susy has 12hp & Tommy has 12hp, but Susy is wearing Ridged Leather & Tommy isn't, why are they taking the same 4points of damage from the darkspawn?

[the_one_54321]

Blastback wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Blastback wrote...
I'd say that it affected how my party functioned in battle.  If I had a choice between suit A, which had the best stats in the game, but looked aweful, and suit B, which had slightly lesser stats but looked cool, then I choose B.  Which did affect my party member's performance.

Ok, but this gets back to what you and I just said earlier. That's DA:O. What about DA][? If we can manipulate the stats the same way, but the clothing doesn' t look different, then what?

Sorry, check again for the edit.  It balanced how I played, kept me from focusing on just stats.  Now, that element has been removed with regard to party members.

But didn't you force yourself not to min-max? Is there any reason why you can't still do that if you want to? I don't think that this qualifies as something that the system provided for you, but rather something that you reacted with yourself.

[BP20125810]

People seem to forget that she's fleeing the darkspawn horde. If your room was on fire would you wait to get neatly dressed before jumping out your window? No, you'd run butt-naked all the way to the nearest neighbor.

[Blastback]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Blastback wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Blastback wrote...
I'd say that it affected how my party functioned in battle.  If I had a choice between suit A, which had the best stats in the game, but looked aweful, and suit B, which had slightly lesser stats but looked cool, then I choose B.  Which did affect my party member's performance.

Ok, but this gets back to what you and I just said earlier. That's DA:O. What about DA][? If we can manipulate the stats the same way, but the clothing doesn' t look different, then what?

Sorry, check again for the edit.  It balanced how I played, kept me from focusing on just stats.  Now, that element has been removed with regard to party members.

But didn't you force yourself not to min-max? Is there any reason why you can't still do that if you want to? I don't think that this qualifies as something that the system provided for you, but rather something that you reacted with yourself.

I'm not trying to argue that it provided a valuble service, just that it had an impact on gameplay that will not be present anymore.  This is my, yes, changing outfits does have gameplay implications arguement.

My argument for keeping companion outfit customisation is simply that I like it and it is fun.

[Alet]

Aermas wrote...

I made a note of excluding constitution. Right at the end.
Let me rephrase my point. If Susy has 12hp & Tommy has 12hp, but Susy is wearing Ridged Leather & Tommy isn't, why are they taking the same 4points of damage from the darkspawn?

You most certainly did, my bad.  The point I'm making is that under those circumstances, I would fully expect Tommy to take more damage from the darkspawn (I'm assuming Tommy is in his skivvies?  Hilfigers, I hope).  However maybe Tommy would get hit only once and have 4hp left, having taken 8 damage from his single hit, but Susy's gotten hit 3 times and is out over the same time period, because Tommy's in and out of stealth and running around (not dodging attacks, physically running away from a darkspawn that starts attacking him), while Susy went toe-to-toe with 3.

[the_one_54321]

Blastback wrote...
just that it had an impact on gameplay that will not be present anymore.  This is my, yes, changing outfits does have gameplay implications arguement.

What I meant was, wasn't that you doing that to yourself more than the game doing it to you? There is no reason and no limitation (so far as we know) in DA][ that will prevent you from doing the exact same thing. Just that the companions won't look any different.

[Blastback]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Blastback wrote...
just that it had an impact on gameplay that will not be present anymore.  This is my, yes, changing outfits does have gameplay implications arguement.

What I meant was, wasn't that you doing that to yourself more than the game doing it to you? There is no reason and no limitation (so far as we know) in DA][ that will prevent you from doing the exact same thing. Just that the companions won't look any different.

Origins gave me a reason not to simply use whatever was the most effective equipment, appearance.  DA2 won't, so there is no reason for me not to use it.