934 réponses à ce sujet

[Xewaka]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Blastback wrote...
just that it had an impact on gameplay that will not be present anymore.  This is my, yes, changing outfits does have gameplay implications arguement.

What I meant was, wasn't that you doing that to yourself more than the game doing it to you? There is no reason and no limitation (so far as we know) in DA][ that will prevent you from doing the exact same thing. Just that the companions won't look any different.

The different looks influenced his gameplay decisions. The looks come determined by the game. Thus, it was the game through visual cues that influenced his decisions.

[Blastback]

Xewaka wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Blastback wrote...
just that it had an impact on gameplay that will not be present anymore.  This is my, yes, changing outfits does have gameplay implications arguement.

What I meant was, wasn't that you doing that to yourself more than the game doing it to you? There is no reason and no limitation (so far as we know) in DA][ that will prevent you from doing the exact same thing. Just that the companions won't look any different.

The different looks influenced his gameplay decisions. The looks come determined by the game. Thus, it was the game through visual cues that influenced his decisions.

Exactly.

[the_one_54321]

That sounds like a serious stretch to me. I would rather lean toward calling that just another way of saying "how they look is important to me." Which is not related to gameplay.

[Blastback]

the_one_54321 wrote...

That sounds like a serious stretch to me. I would rather lean toward calling that just another way of saying "how they look is important to me." Which is not related to gameplay.

I think this is one of those where we are going to have to agree to disagree.

[Aermas]

Alet wrote...

Aermas wrote...

I made a note of excluding constitution. Right at the end.
Let me rephrase my point. If Susy has 12hp & Tommy has 12hp, but Susy is wearing Ridged Leather & Tommy isn't, why are they taking the same 4points of damage from the darkspawn?

You most certainly did, my bad.  The point I'm making is that under those circumstances, I would fully expect Tommy to take more damage from the darkspawn (I'm assuming Tommy is in his skivvies?  Hilfigers, I hope).  However maybe Tommy would get hit only once and have 4hp left, having taken 8 damage from his single hit, but Susy's gotten hit 3 times and is out over the same time period, because Tommy's in and out of stealth and running around (not dodging attacks, physically running away from a darkspawn that starts attacking him), while Susy went toe-to-toe with 3.

Susy could also be sneaking around.

The devs have said that the "armor" will not have a game mechanic effect  only visual & that's why I'm upset, it's not realistic, it's not "Internally Consistent".

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Since you've given this discussion it's own thread, does that mean you're not going to bring it up in 30 other threads?

I consider it a legitimate objection - people who expect to fight should look it - but I am getting tired of reading the same conversations in thread after thread after thread.

Just remember you were one of the few that wanted this "set outfit" crap in the first place. Thanks for ruining it for the rest of us by actually asking for this garbage.

[Maria Caliban]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Since you've given this discussion it's own thread, does that mean you're not going to bring it up in 30 other threads?

I consider it a legitimate objection - people who expect to fight should look it - but I am getting tired of reading the same conversations in thread after thread after thread.

Just remember you were one of the few that wanted this "set outfit" crap in the first place. Thanks for ruining it for the rest of us by actually asking for this garbage.

[Aermas]

Maria Caliban wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Since you've given this discussion it's own thread, does that mean you're not going to bring it up in 30 other threads?

I consider it a legitimate objection - people who expect to fight should look it - but I am getting tired of reading the same conversations in thread after thread after thread.

Just remember you were one of the few that wanted this "set outfit" crap in the first place. Thanks for ruining it for the rest of us by actually asking for this garbage.

What ever happened to the "Sorry It's My Fault" sig?

[AlanC9]

I'm sure Maria really feels bad about that.

[Drasanil]

Maria Caliban wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Since you've given this discussion it's own thread, does that mean you're not going to bring it up in 30 other threads?

I consider it a legitimate objection - people who expect to fight should look it - but I am getting tired of reading the same conversations in thread after thread after thread.

Just remember you were one of the few that wanted this "set outfit" crap in the first place. Thanks for ruining it for the rest of us by actually asking for this garbage.

If I ever find out you asked for fixed and/or more defined characters well... I'll uhm... well... I'm so going to spam you with a bunch of non-lesbian porn.*


*Yes, I'll be keeping the good stuff for myself. Ha! Petty revenge for the win

[Sir JK]

Aermas wrote...
I made a note of excluding constitution. Right at the end.
Let me rephrase my point. If Susy has 12hp & Tommy has 12hp, but Susy is wearing Ridged Leather & Tommy isn't, why are they taking the same 4points of damage from the darkspawn?

I know this wasn't directed at me... but let me try?

They both take the same amount of damage because they both got hit. Tommy may have been grazed or bruised by the attack just about anywhere, but Susy obviously got hit in a weak spot. Neither suffered a lethal hit, lucky them, but they both got hit nonetheless. Comparatively, I'd even say that Susy suffered a worse hit that Tommy did because she got less exposed sensitive areas.

Did that explanation work for you?

[Maria Caliban]

Drasanil wrote...

If I ever find out you asked for fixed and/or more defined characters well... I'll uhm... well... I'm so going to spam you with a bunch of non-lesbian porn.*


*Yes, I'll be keeping the good stuff for myself. Ha! Petty revenge for the win

A thread I started 10 months ago -- Companion models: ME 2 vs DA.


While I might be picky about the squishy bits in the real world, I tend to more open-minded with my, um, entertainment. Anti-lesbian porn would likely not bother me.

AlanC9 wrote...

I'm sure Maria really feels bad about that.

"When [Maria] learned of all that she had been done, she tore her clothes, put on sackcloth and ashes, and went out into the [forum], wailing loudly and bitterly."

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 01 décembre 2010 - 12:47 .

[Alet]

Aermas wrote...

The devs have said that the "armor" will not have a game mechanic effect  only visual & that's why I'm upset, it's not realistic, it's not "Internally Consistent".

Ok, but I think you might be getting more upset than you need to be.  If Isabella's clothes don't give any more protection than an enchanted set of mage robes, that would be a visual change that isn't a game mechanic effect.  I'd even buy that her clothes are made of leather, and that Varric has a leather vest or a heavy lined coat, so they'd offer light protection, still not really a "game mechanic effect."  Somewhat annoying if you like putting your rouges in studded leather/light chain, but still more along the lines of "personal choice/lack thereof effect."

Actually, I'd imagine that a new system where robes absorb as much damage as leather/chain/plate/pick your armor, would be changing the game mechanics.  Awhile back a dev was explaining the armor system, something along the lines of "plate mail would give the character an armor value of 60, meaning [talking about what determines a hit or a miss that I don't remember well enough to quote]"  So maybe you'd find a suit of studded leather armor that Hawke can equip that would give you 40 armor, a mages robes would give you 0-10, Isabella's boots+tunic would give her 30 . . . I don't actually see anyone claiming that armor rating will be the same regardless of the degree of armor equipped, which is what you seem to be afraid of.

[Drasanil]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

If I ever find out you asked for fixed and/or more defined characters well... I'll uhm... well... I'm so going to spam you with a bunch of non-lesbian porn.*


*Yes, I'll be keeping the good stuff for myself. Ha! Petty revenge for the win

A thread I started 10 months ago -- Companion models: ME 2 vs DA.


While I might be picky about the squishy bits in the real world, I tend to more open-minded with my, um, entertainment. Anti-lesbian porn would likely not bother me.

Phew, I was worried there for a second! That's only about companions, it doesn't seem like you asked for a Shepard like character. I was afraid I'd have to go through with the effort of following up on my threat


PS: I know what you mean, I'm a hell of a lot more picky when it comes to RL than when dealing with entertainment. Teh internetz has corrupted me.

[Maria Caliban]

Aermas wrote...

What ever happened to the "Sorry It's My Fault" sig?

It might be difficult to believe, but I do respect that others want different things in a game than I. When we first learned that companion outfits were fixed, I was quite happy and also felt vindicated. I don't like people slamming me as a console kiddie because I suggest a feature they aren't into.

Still, no need to constantly aggravate others. I understand why some prefer to change their companion's outfits and enjoy the constant upgrading of gear. They're not *wrong* to do so and there's no need to prickle at people who might already be feeling disappointed.

Unless, of course, Sarah pops into a thread just to be her charming self and complain about the 'garbage' I've forced upon innocent RPing gamers.

[Alet]

Sir JK wrote...

Aermas wrote...
I made a note of excluding constitution. Right at the end.
Let me rephrase my point. If Susy has 12hp & Tommy has 12hp, but Susy is wearing Ridged Leather & Tommy isn't, why are they taking the same 4points of damage from the darkspawn?

I know this wasn't directed at me... but let me try?

They both take the same amount of damage because they both got hit. Tommy may have been grazed or bruised by the attack just about anywhere, but Susy obviously got hit in a weak spot. Neither suffered a lethal hit, lucky them, but they both got hit nonetheless. Comparatively, I'd even say that Susy suffered a worse hit that Tommy did because she got less exposed sensitive areas.

Did that explanation work for you?

But would they take the same amount of damage?  I'm perfectly comfortable with your explanation, mind, but I haven't seen anyone claim that, say, if level 10 Isabella wearing her gear got struck with a slashing blow across the midsection from a level 10 Qunari warrior and level 10 Aveline wearing her city guard armor got struck with a slashing blow across the midsection from a level 10 Qunari warror, Isabella would get the same/less damage than Aveline.  That would make no sense.  But I don't think anything like that has been implied by the devs.

[Blastback]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

If I ever find out you asked for fixed and/or more defined characters well... I'll uhm... well... I'm so going to spam you with a bunch of non-lesbian porn.*


*Yes, I'll be keeping the good stuff for myself. Ha! Petty revenge for the win

A thread I started 10 months ago -- Companion models: ME 2 vs DA.


While I might be picky about the squishy bits in the real world, I tend to more open-minded with my, um, entertainment. Anti-lesbian porn would likely not bother me.

AlanC9 wrote...

I'm sure Maria really feels bad about that.

"When [Maria] learned of all that she had been done, she tore her clothes, put on sackcloth and ashes, and went out into the [forum], wailing loudly and bitterly."

I liked the kissy face.  Then I read this post.

Most epic reply ever.

[crimzontearz]

Maria Caliban wrote...
 

Unless, of course, Sarah pops into a thread just to be her charming self and complain about the 'garbage' I've forced upon innocent RPing gamers.

GASPS

I feel Violated now......

[Sir JK]

Alet wrote...

But would they take the same amount of damage?  I'm perfectly comfortable with your explanation, mind, but I haven't seen anyone claim that, say, if level 10 Isabella wearing her gear got struck with a slashing blow across the midsection from a level 10 Qunari warrior and level 10 Aveline wearing her city guard armor got struck with a slashing blow across the midsection from a level 10 Qunari warror, Isabella would get the same/less damage than Aveline.  That would make no sense.  But I don't think anything like that has been implied by the devs.

Here's the thing with the combat system (and hp in general) though, they don't actually hit each others. That bit we have to fill in ourselves in our mind.
In your example: If lvl 10 Isabela suffers a slashing blow and lvl 10 Aveline suffers a slashing blow from the same qunari and Isabela takes less damage. Then Aveline suffered a worse hit than Isabela did. Maybe Isabela managed to deflect the attack only to be slightly bruised. Maybe the qunari found a weak spot in Aveline's armour. You can even justify it as: neither of them actually got hit, but Aveline was closer to joining her husband there than Isabela was.
Nothing says you have to interpret it so that Isabela's outfit is more protective.

Disclaimer: Also note that there are no consistent explanation. It changes from situation to situation.

Contrary to popular belief armour does not make you invurnerable. Just slightly less likely to die by poor hits.

[Aermas]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Aermas wrote...

What ever happened to the "Sorry It's My Fault" sig?

It might be difficult to believe, but I do respect that others want different things in a game than I. When we first learned that companion outfits were fixed, I was quite happy and also felt vindicated. I don't like people slamming me as a console kiddie because I suggest a feature they aren't into.

Still, no need to constantly aggravate others. I understand why some prefer to change their companion's outfits and enjoy the constant upgrading of gear. They're not *wrong* to do so and there's no need to prickle at people who might already be feeling disappointed.

Unless, of course, Sarah pops into a thread just to be her charming self and complain about the 'garbage' I've forced upon innocent RPing gamers.

Console player myself, & I don't mean to be aggravating, I don't even care if the armor is permanent & will never change, I just want it to be actual armor, & for the mechanics reflect that. If you were to strip everyone of their enchants & gave them all the same constitution armored Aveline & unarmed Isabela are going to take the same damage, that's the part I'm angry about. It just makes no sense.

[Iakus]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Still, no need to constantly aggravate others. I understand why some prefer to change their companion's outfits and enjoy the constant upgrading of gear. They're not *wrong* to do so and there's no need to prickle at people who might already be feeling disappointed. 

From my perspective, the problem with fixed outfits is it's an "all or nothing" deal.  From a visual perspective, at least.  It can't be changed, however much you may love/hate it.

I mean, If a companion is wearing an outfit that I like and feel is appropriate for the situation, then Woohoo!  Problem never existed 

But if the companion has an outfit I find silly/inappropriate/all around lame, then it doesn't matter how often I'm told that it's "awesome", if I don't like it, and I can't change it, that companion's gonna be missing some serious screen time as a result.

Now until I actually see all the outfits, this is just a concern for me, not a complaint (yet).  However, I can all too easily see somthing like this happening in my game.

Isabela:  Hawke!  Off on another adventure?  Can I come along?

Hawke:  Sorry, we have a strict dress code policy here.

Isabela:  What?  But I'm wearing a shirt and shoes!

Hawke:  But you're not wearing pants.  Sorry, but I'm taking Aveline instead.

Isabela:  But, but...pants don't EXIST for me!

Hawke:  Not.  My. Problem.  Try pressing a button, maybe an awesome pair of trousers will happen.  ::leaves::

Isabela:  ::sigh::  Anyone up for a game of cards?

[Maria Caliban]

Aermas wrote...

Console player myself, & I don't mean to be aggravating, I don't even care if the armor is permanent & will never change, I just want it to be actual armor, & for the mechanics reflect that. If you were to strip everyone of their enchants & gave them all the same constitution armored Aveline & unarmed Isabela are going to take the same damage, that's the part I'm angry about. It just makes no sense.

I can appreciate wanting people who know they're going to fight to wear armor appropriate to the occasion. I don't want them decked out in full plate, but "Isabela, we're going against qunari who've already slaughtered half the city guards. Maybe put on some pants and a breastplate?" should be an option.

That said, are you sure about Aveline and Isabela having the same armor value? I thought Mike said that the armor value of the outfit wasn't only based on enchantments. The base armor of Aveline's heavy armor (when she gets it) will always be higher than Isabela's puss-in-boots outfit.

[Alet]

Sir JK wrote...

Here's the thing with the combat system (and hp in general) though, they don't actually hit each others. That bit we have to fill in ourselves in our mind.
In your example: If lvl 10 Isabela suffers a slashing blow and lvl 10 Aveline suffers a slashing blow from the same qunari and Isabela takes less damage. Then Aveline suffered a worse hit than Isabela did. Maybe Isabela managed to deflect the attack only to be slightly bruised. Maybe the qunari found a weak spot in Aveline's armour. You can even justify it as: neither of them actually got hit, but Aveline was closer to joining her husband there than Isabela was.
Nothing says you have to interpret it so that Isabela's outfit is more protective.

Disclaimer: Also note that there are no consistent explanation. It changes from situation to situation.

Contrary to popular belief armour does not make you invurnerable. Just slightly less likely to die by poor hits.

Right.  Here's the thing, and I might be wrong.  In DA:O, when my rouge (studded armor) and my fighter (heavy plate) gets hit by a comparable attack from a comparable enemy, the fighter takes less damage from that hit.  If I stun then backstab an enemy mage, I'm going to do a certain amount of damage.  If I stun and backstab an enemy of similar level wearing heavy armor, with the same equpiment and PC level, I'm going to do less damage.  Was my experience unique?

The crux of this issue seems to be, for some people, "All other things being equal, I want the weight/class of the armor to make a difference as to how much damage the character will take."  And, in DA:O, it does.  And the devs have done nothing other than indicate this will be the same in DA2.  Therefore, the thing that people are afraid of is not actually going to happen.  So what's the fuss?

[Blastback]

iakus wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Still, no need to constantly aggravate others. I understand why some prefer to change their companion's outfits and enjoy the constant upgrading of gear. They're not *wrong* to do so and there's no need to prickle at people who might already be feeling disappointed. 

From my perspective, the problem with fixed outfits is it's an "all or nothing" deal.  From a visual perspective, at least.  It can't be changed, however much you may love/hate it.

I mean, If a companion is wearing an outfit that I like and feel is appropriate for the situation, then Woohoo!  Problem never existed 

But if the companion has an outfit I find silly/inappropriate/all around lame, then it doesn't matter how often I'm told that it's "awesome", if I don't like it, and I can't change it, that companion's gonna be missing some serious screen time as a result.

Now until I actually see all the outfits, this is just a concern for me, not a complaint (yet).  However, I can all too easily see somthing like this happening in my game.

Isabela:  Hawke!  Off on another adventure?  Can I come along?

Hawke:  Sorry, we have a strict dress code policy here.

Isabela:  What?  But I'm wearing a shirt and shoes!

Hawke:  But you're not wearing pants.  Sorry, but I'm taking Aveline instead.

Isabela:  But, but...pants don't EXIST for me!

Hawke:  Not.  My. Problem.  Try pressing a button, maybe an awesome pair of trousers will happen.  ::leaves::

Isabela:  ::sigh::  Anyone up for a game of cards?

This happened with Jack.  Albiet in a nicer tone, as I didn't want her venting my crew into space.

[Addai]

iakus wrote...

Isabela:  But, but...pants don't EXIST for me!

Hawke:  Not.  My. Problem.  Try pressing a button, maybe an awesome pair of trousers will happen.  ::leaves::

Isabela:  ::sigh::  Anyone up for a game of cards?

giggle