934 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir JK]

Alet wrote...
Right.  Here's the thing, and I might be wrong.  In DA:O, when my rouge (studded armor) and my fighter (heavy plate) gets hit by a comparable attack from a comparable enemy, the fighter takes less damage from that hit.  If I stun then backstab an enemy mage, I'm going to do a certain amount of damage.  If I stun and backstab an enemy of similar level wearing heavy armor, with the same equpiment and PC level, I'm going to do less damage.  Was my experience unique?

No, that's correct.
All I was doing was to give a explanation to the situation given. If in any given situation A takes more damage than B, then A suffered a worse hit (or was closer to a worse hit). Regardless of wether A was or was not wearing heavier armour.

The crux of this issue seems to be, for some people, "All other things being equal, I want the weight/class of the armor to make a difference as to how much damage the character will take."  And, in DA:O, it does.  And the devs have done nothing other than indicate this will be the same in DA2.  Therefore, the thing that people are afraid of is not actually going to happen.  So what's the fuss?

Actually, I think what they really want is armor too look like it makes a difference. But your point still stands more or less.

I'm not really saying that their preferences are wrong. I'm more or less only disputing the notion that you somehow cannot fight properly without armour. Which you can... but at a disadvantage.  I'm also protesting that all characters somehow involved in melee combat somehow must wear a specific type of armour regardless of their social position.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Aermas wrote...

What ever happened to the "Sorry It's My Fault" sig?

It might be difficult to believe, but I do respect that others want different things in a game than I. When we first learned that companion outfits were fixed, I was quite happy and also felt vindicated. I don't like people slamming me as a console kiddie because I suggest a feature they aren't into.

Still, no need to constantly aggravate others. I understand why some prefer to change their companion's outfits and enjoy the constant upgrading of gear. They're not *wrong* to do so and there's no need to prickle at people who might already be feeling disappointed.

Unless, of course, Sarah pops into a thread just to be her charming self and complain about the 'garbage' I've forced upon innocent RPing gamers.

Hey, I'm giving you a scape goat, be happy. And I'm sorry, removing choice in a CRPG of any level that has always worked before, especially in a game trumped up as a spiritial successor to BG (so glad that lasted all of one game ) is a garbage design decision.


Gonna be so awesome to watch Isabella in the same outfit for 10 years worth of narrative game time, and watch people wade into melee combat in skin tight/skimpy outfits. It looked **** stupid in ME2, and it will still look **** stupid in DA2.

[Alet]

Sir JK wrote...

Actually, I think what they really want is armor too look like it makes a difference. But your point still stands more or less.

I'm not really saying that their preferences are wrong. I'm more or less only disputing the notion that you somehow cannot fight properly without armour. Which you can... but at a disadvantage.  I'm also protesting that all characters somehow involved in melee combat somehow must wear a specific type of armour regardless of their social position.

Ah, it's as I suspected -- we agree entirely. 

[Nohvarr]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Hey, I'm giving you a scape goat, be happy. And I'm sorry, removing choice in a CRPG of any level that has always worked before, especially in a game trumped up as a spiritial successor to BG (so glad that lasted all of one game ) is a garbage design decision.

The truth is you are not commanding these people like you did when you were the Warden Commander. They are not in your camp, constantly eating your food. (Female Warden: "Alister.... if you're eating my pie's then your wearing what I want..." Holds up a g-string )They are joining you to accomplish mission specific goals for their own reasons, and once done they return to their own lives, away from you.

Thus in the context of the games story it makes sense that you can't sit those party memebers down and decide what their fall wardrobe should be. It would break immersion to have them wearing whatever gear I gave them the last time we met, and it would be highly tedious to continually fiddle with their gear each time they rejoined your company after a prolonged absence.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 01 décembre 2010 - 01:58 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Nohvarr wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Hey, I'm giving you a scape goat, be happy. And I'm sorry, removing choice in a CRPG of any level that has always worked before, especially in a game trumped up as a spiritial successor to BG (so glad that lasted all of one game ) is a garbage design decision.

The truth is you are not commanding these people like you did when you were the Warden Commander. They are not in your camp, constantly eating your food. (Female Warden: "Alister.... if you're eating my pie's then your wearing what I want..." Holds up a g-string )They are joining you to accomplish mission specific goals for their own reasons, and once done they return to their own lives, away from you.

Thus in the context of the games story it makes sense that you can't sit those party memebers down and decide what their fall wardrobe should be. It would break immersion to have them wearing whatever gear I gave them the last time we met, and it would be highly tedious to continually fiddle with their gear each time they rejoined your company after a prolonged absence.

Thats not entirely true, you're still controling the party, and they still are available in Kirkwall except for certain situations over the course of the game.

Removing companion armor customization does absolutely nothing for the game, except for give those few that need a unique one size fits all look for companions something to cheer about, gives less work for the art department making various armors (which is prolly the main reason it was done due to the somewhat short dev cycle) and strips another layer of depth out of an CRPG.

I would think it breaks immersion watching them in the same outfit for 30 hours worth of gametime just as much, I mean people DO change their clothes, it doesn't change who they are by doing so.

[crimzontearz]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Aermas wrote...

What ever happened to the "Sorry It's My Fault" sig?

It might be difficult to believe, but I do respect that others want different things in a game than I. When we first learned that companion outfits were fixed, I was quite happy and also felt vindicated. I don't like people slamming me as a console kiddie because I suggest a feature they aren't into.

Still, no need to constantly aggravate others. I understand why some prefer to change their companion's outfits and enjoy the constant upgrading of gear. They're not *wrong* to do so and there's no need to prickle at people who might already be feeling disappointed.

Unless, of course, Sarah pops into a thread just to be her charming self and complain about the 'garbage' I've forced upon innocent RPing gamers.

Hey, I'm giving you a scape goat, be happy. And I'm sorry, removing choice in a CRPG of any level that has always worked before, especially in a game trumped up as a spiritial successor to BG (so glad that lasted all of one game ) is a garbage design decision.


Gonna be so awesome to watch Isabella in the same outfit for 10 years worth of narrative game time, and watch people wade into melee combat in skin tight/skimpy outfits. It looked **** stupid in ME2, and it will still look **** stupid in DA2.

you know Sarah, maybe I am being stupid or maybe it's that one  Molsen's I had with dinner (yes I drink canadian beer sometimes) but let's see  if I can use a peripatetic way to get to the point

WHY (aside for the sheer possibility of choice) do you want to be able to fully equip your party? (and by fully I mean their armor since everything  else is there)

what were you essentially doing in DAO while you were putting armor pieces on your party member?

Modifié par crimzontearz, 01 décembre 2010 - 02:05 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Nohvarr wrote...

The truth is you are not commanding these people like you did when you were the Warden Commander. They are not in your camp, constantly eating your food. (Female Warden: "Alister.... if you're eating my pie's then your wearing what I want..." Holds up a g-string )They are joining you to accomplish mission specific goals for their own reasons, and once done they return to their own lives, away from you.

Thus in the context of the games story it makes sense that you can't sit those party memebers down and decide what their fall wardrobe should be. It would break immersion to have them wearing whatever gear I gave them the last time we met, and it would be highly tedious to continually fiddle with their gear each time they rejoined your company after a prolonged absence.

The TRUTH is a person would have to be a blubbering idiot not to prepare for a battle they knew was coming. So someone who knew they would be fighting on the front lines with melee weapons and who did not put on armor would be an idiot and would not live long. That is the TRUTH since you want to talk TRUTH.

It is a pity Bioware decided to dumb down the game and pander to casual gamers rather than rpg fans.

[Nerivant]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

It is a pity Bioware decided to dumb down the game and pander to casual gamers rather than rpg fans.

You've got the angry and senile part down, now work on the wizard part. <_<

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

crimzontearz wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Aermas wrote...

What ever happened to the "Sorry It's My Fault" sig?

It might be difficult to believe, but I do respect that others want different things in a game than I. When we first learned that companion outfits were fixed, I was quite happy and also felt vindicated. I don't like people slamming me as a console kiddie because I suggest a feature they aren't into.

Still, no need to constantly aggravate others. I understand why some prefer to change their companion's outfits and enjoy the constant upgrading of gear. They're not *wrong* to do so and there's no need to prickle at people who might already be feeling disappointed.

Unless, of course, Sarah pops into a thread just to be her charming self and complain about the 'garbage' I've forced upon innocent RPing gamers.

Hey, I'm giving you a scape goat, be happy. And I'm sorry, removing choice in a CRPG of any level that has always worked before, especially in a game trumped up as a spiritial successor to BG (so glad that lasted all of one game ) is a garbage design decision.


Gonna be so awesome to watch Isabella in the same outfit for 10 years worth of narrative game time, and watch people wade into melee combat in skin tight/skimpy outfits. It looked **** stupid in ME2, and it will still look **** stupid in DA2.

you know Sarah, maybe I am being stupid or maybe it's that one  Molsen's I had with dinner (yes I drink canadian beer sometimes) but let's see  if I can use a peripatetic way to get to the point

WHY (aside for the sheer possibility of choice) do you want to be able to fully equip your party? (and by fully I mean their armor since everything  else is there)

what were you essentially doing in DAO while you were putting armor pieces on your party member?

Nothing wrong with Canadian beer, granted I perfer Vodka and a mixer myself (not too keen on beer) but to each their own.

Aside from choice, its a staple of the genre to find some great loot after a quest, and be able to upgrade your party's equipment for future, tougher parts of the game. Now that whole part of the game aside from rings and belts and adding a rune or what not is gone for set outfits with not much added in its place.  Party customization has always been one of my favorite aspects of party based crpg's. To watch it disappear for apparently no real good reason other than a shortened dev cycle and because a few people get off on "unique companion looks" really annoys the hell out of me.

Modifié par CoS Sarah Jinstar, 01 décembre 2010 - 02:13 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Nerivant wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

It is a pity Bioware decided to dumb down the game and pander to casual gamers rather than rpg fans.

You've got the angry and senile part down, now work on the wizard part. <_<

So all you have is insults rather than acutal rational counterarguments? I'm can't say I'm suprised. Oh, I have the wizard part down,  I'm not angry, and much futhur from senility than you seem to be since you were unable to respond with any degree of rational conversation.  

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 01 décembre 2010 - 02:11 .

[Sir JK]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

The TRUTH is a person would have to be a blubbering idiot not to prepare for a battle they knew was coming. So someone who knew they would be fighting on the front lines with melee weapons and who did not put on armor would be an idiot and would not live long.

I'm going to ask you a few counter questions:

1. What if you don't know battle is coming?
2. What if you cannot aquire good armour?
3. Why are we giving mages a free pass from this?

[crimzontearz]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Aermas wrote...

What ever happened to the "Sorry It's My Fault" sig?

It might be difficult to believe, but I do respect that others want different things in a game than I. When we first learned that companion outfits were fixed, I was quite happy and also felt vindicated. I don't like people slamming me as a console kiddie because I suggest a feature they aren't into.

Still, no need to constantly aggravate others. I understand why some prefer to change their companion's outfits and enjoy the constant upgrading of gear. They're not *wrong* to do so and there's no need to prickle at people who might already be feeling disappointed.

Unless, of course, Sarah pops into a thread just to be her charming self and complain about the 'garbage' I've forced upon innocent RPing gamers.

Hey, I'm giving you a scape goat, be happy. And I'm sorry, removing choice in a CRPG of any level that has always worked before, especially in a game trumped up as a spiritial successor to BG (so glad that lasted all of one game ) is a garbage design decision.


Gonna be so awesome to watch Isabella in the same outfit for 10 years worth of narrative game time, and watch people wade into melee combat in skin tight/skimpy outfits. It looked **** stupid in ME2, and it will still look **** stupid in DA2.

you know Sarah, maybe I am being stupid or maybe it's that one  Molsen's I had with dinner (yes I drink canadian beer sometimes) but let's see  if I can use a peripatetic way to get to the point

WHY (aside for the sheer possibility of choice) do you want to be able to fully equip your party? (and by fully I mean their armor since everything  else is there)

what were you essentially doing in DAO while you were putting armor pieces on your party member?

Nothing wrong with Canadian beer, granted I perfer Vodka and a mixer myself (not too keen on beer) but to each their own.

Aside from choice, its a staple of the genre to find some great loot after a quest, and be able to upgrade your party's equipment for future, tougher parts of the game. Now that whole part of the game aside from rings and belts and adding a rune or what not is gone for set outfits with not much added in its place.  Party customization has always been one of my favorite aspects of party based cprg's. To watch it disappear for apparently no real good reason other than a shortened dev cycle and because a few people get off on "unique companion looks" really annoys the hell out of me.

answer the second question "what were you doing in DAO when you were putting on different pieces of armor on your companions"

[Nohvarr]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Thats not entirely true, you're still controling the party, and they still are available in Kirkwall except for certain situations over the course of the game.

Available is vastly different from, living with me, which is what happened in DA: O. These people are doing other things during the time jumps. Aveline isn't twiddeling her thumbs waiting for me to show up and call her to adventure. She's a memeber of the guard, that's a full time job and it's going to denote that she wear a certain type of gear/uniform while performing her duties.

Removing companion armor customization does absolutely nothing for the game,

I disagree. I really don't find anything thrilling about spending time fiddeling with everyone's gear. I enjoy playing with my characters look, but that's because it's my avatar. I don't see why I NEED to tell these other people what to wear, when they're all grown individuals who should be able to judge what is best for their style of fighting. That's why I liked ME 2, I found/provided upgrades/weapons and the companions made appropriate use of them. It made them feel that much more alive to see them actually making decisions without my input.

and strips another layer of depth out of an CRPG.

or strips another layer of tedium out of a CRPG, depends on your point of view.

it's already been established that Aveline get's armor, so we won't necassarily be seeing the team in the same gear for 30 hours or so.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 01 décembre 2010 - 02:15 .

[Nerivant]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

It is a pity Bioware decided to dumb down the game and pander to casual gamers rather than rpg fans.

You've got the angry and senile part down, now work on the wizard part. <_<

So all you have is insults rather than acutal rational counterarguments? I'm can't say I'm suprised. Oh, I have the wizard part down,  I'm not angry, and much futhur from senility than you seem to be since you were unable to respond with any degree of rational conversation.  

What? How could I respond when I was never asked anything in the first place? If I couldn't respond, how could it be with rational conversation?

Regardless of your nonsensical statement about my inability to respond rationally, your statement was nonsensical. Since when is it dumbing down, and since when are RPG fans on some higher level that "casual" gamers. What defines a casual gamer?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

crimzontearz wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Aermas wrote...

What ever happened to the "Sorry It's My Fault" sig?

It might be difficult to believe, but I do respect that others want different things in a game than I. When we first learned that companion outfits were fixed, I was quite happy and also felt vindicated. I don't like people slamming me as a console kiddie because I suggest a feature they aren't into.

Still, no need to constantly aggravate others. I understand why some prefer to change their companion's outfits and enjoy the constant upgrading of gear. They're not *wrong* to do so and there's no need to prickle at people who might already be feeling disappointed.

Unless, of course, Sarah pops into a thread just to be her charming self and complain about the 'garbage' I've forced upon innocent RPing gamers.

Hey, I'm giving you a scape goat, be happy. And I'm sorry, removing choice in a CRPG of any level that has always worked before, especially in a game trumped up as a spiritial successor to BG (so glad that lasted all of one game ) is a garbage design decision.


Gonna be so awesome to watch Isabella in the same outfit for 10 years worth of narrative game time, and watch people wade into melee combat in skin tight/skimpy outfits. It looked **** stupid in ME2, and it will still look **** stupid in DA2.

you know Sarah, maybe I am being stupid or maybe it's that one  Molsen's I had with dinner (yes I drink canadian beer sometimes) but let's see  if I can use a peripatetic way to get to the point

WHY (aside for the sheer possibility of choice) do you want to be able to fully equip your party? (and by fully I mean their armor since everything  else is there)

what were you essentially doing in DAO while you were putting armor pieces on your party member?

Nothing wrong with Canadian beer, granted I perfer Vodka and a mixer myself (not too keen on beer) but to each their own.

Aside from choice, its a staple of the genre to find some great loot after a quest, and be able to upgrade your party's equipment for future, tougher parts of the game. Now that whole part of the game aside from rings and belts and adding a rune or what not is gone for set outfits with not much added in its place.  Party customization has always been one of my favorite aspects of party based cprg's. To watch it disappear for apparently no real good reason other than a shortened dev cycle and because a few people get off on "unique companion looks" really annoys the hell out of me.

answer the second question "what were you doing in DAO when you were putting on different pieces of armor on your companions"

Customizing my party's gear to better augment whatever  their skill set was for that particular play through was mostly, but again one of the main reasons I play CPRG's because I like choices in games, be it story related, quest decisions, or changing gear around. Watching an aspect of that go away just because.. Well it makes me a sad panda.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Sir JK wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

The TRUTH is a person would have to be a blubbering idiot not to prepare for a battle they knew was coming. So someone who knew they would be fighting on the front lines with melee weapons and who did not put on armor would be an idiot and would not live long.

I'm going to ask you a few counter questions:

1. What if you don't know battle is coming?
2. What if you cannot aquire good armour?
3. Why are we giving mages a free pass from this?

1) Obviously if you have no clue a battle is coming you might not be well prepared. Although if you are traveling along the roads you could reasonably assume bandits or creatures may attack you and so a sane person would be as well prepared as possible.

You would think that sometimes in the 10 year time frame of the game the non player characters would realize they are going to do a lot of fighting.  One would think that the constant reports from refugees fleeing an army might clue them in too.

If not, maybe DA2 should be named DA2: Moronic Heroes.

I could see such being the case if the game were of the Monty Python humorous sort. Although I would point out that even in Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail all the knights wore armor. Even if they banged coconuts instead of riding horses.

2) I'm sure the enemies will be wearing armor and I'm sure there will be armor available in stores. Want to make  a bet on that?

3) Armor interferes with a mage's spellcasting ability. Also, mages, unless they are of the arcane warrior type are not in the front lines. And arcane warriors do wear armor.

[Sir JK]

Sarah,Crimzon... could you please crop your quotes? Quote yramids are tedious to read, block out other posts and gets threads locked. Please?

[MerinTB]

crimzontearz wrote...
WHY (aside for the sheer possibility of choice) do you want to be able to fully equip your party? (and by fully I mean their armor since everything  else is there)

what were you essentially doing in DAO while you were putting armor pieces on your party member?

My name's not Sarah, but I'll field this -

I was having fun.  Playing a cRPG the way I enjoy them - or, at least, as close as possible to the way that I enjoy them that I can.

My ideal - 6 member party, I create all 6 party members.  Name, abilities, etc.  I can then equip them however I want, even sub-optimally or blind to good fashion sense if that's my choice.  This includes weapons and armor.

An RPG, for me (not trying to start "what is an RPG argument" - just stating where I sit when thinking about it) means creating and controlling a character, and continuing to evolve that character (including the items they wear, carry and use) as I see fit.  Put a c in front of RPG, and I personally am expecting some kind of party of characters I'm going to control.

Start taking choices and control away from me, I start enjoying the game less.  Fixed NPCs I can choose from?  Losing enjoyment, personally.  Limited number of fixed NPCs to choose from, enjoyment lessened.  No control over their actions / advancement / equipment - each loss of one of those means I have less fun with the game.  Smaller party size, I'm not having as much fun.  Choice of MC mostly eclipsed to tell a forced, linear story and at that point I'm wondering why I'm considering this an RPG for me - and I start looking at it like an adventure game (as I do FFXIII and (mostly) BioWare games) as the less control over my character(s) combined with the more set the story is the harder it is for me to consider it an RPG (as far as I'm concerned.)

So, pulling that all back - changing the armor / clothing of my party members (and the results showing said party members having different appearances as a result) is a small but important detail to me.  Taking the enjoyment I get from controlling my party away for "story" and "iconic identifiable SET characters" makes me want to play the game less, let alone replay it.

There's a reason I played PS:T zero times through, BG2 1 time through, and IWD over a dozen times through.  And it's iterated (perhaps neither clearly nor succinctly, my apologies) above.

[Ziggeh]

Nohvarr wrote...

The truth is you are not commanding these people like you did when you were the Warden Commander. They are not in your camp, constantly eating your food. (Female Warden: "Alister.... if you're eating my pie's then your wearing what I want..." Holds up a g-string )They are joining you to accomplish mission specific goals for their own reasons, and once done they return to their own lives, away from you.

Interesting point.

Thought struck me as I was reading it though: Is the Warden telling them what to wear? "You" are making that decision, and I can understand if someone was adopting the mindset of the Warden it would seem fairly natural that all decisions are made by the PC, but then we get things like controlling the party members in combat which fall outside of that. He doesn't stand behind them waving their arms.

There's nothing explicit to suggest anyone but the player is deciding upon armour. It's another abstraction so I've never considered it an in game decision really, but it could be the Warden, but it could equally be each companion deciding for themselves or even the whole group sitting around and voting. Maybe they play rock, paper, scissors for best gear.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Nohvarr wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Thats not entirely true, you're still controling the party, and they still are available in Kirkwall except for certain situations over the course of the game.

Available is vastly different from, living with me, which is what happened in DA: O. These people are doing other things during the time jumps. Aveline isn't twiddeling her thumbs waiting for me to show up and call her to adventure. She's a memeber of the guard, that's a full time job and it's going to denote that she wear a certain type of gear/uniform while performing her duties.

Removing companion armor customization does absolutely nothing for the game,

I disagree. I really don't find anything thrilling about spending time fiddeling with everyone's gear. I enjoy playing with my characters look, but that's because it's my avatar. I don't see why I NEED to tell these other people what to wear, when they're all grown individuals who should be able to judge what is best for their style of fighting. That's why I liked ME 2, I found/provided upgrades/weapons and the companions made appropriate use of them. It made them feel that much more alive to see them actually making decisions without my input.

and strips another layer of depth out of an CRPG.

or strips another layer of tedium out of a CRPG, depends on your point of view.

it's already been established that Aveline get's armor, so we won't necassarily be seeing the team in the same gear for 30 hours or so.

See thats the new generation's thing though. "party customization! TOO TIME CONSUMING" I WANA PUSH BUTTON MAKE AWESOME HAPPEN!

At least thats how it comes across anytime I hear a person encourage dumbing down the game and stripping out customization.

Not every RPG needs to be Mass Effect. Why Bioware somehow feels the need to essentially move the Dragon Age IP completely into that direction makes no sense to me what so ever. Be it companion gear, dialog wheel, what have you. Let each game be its own thing.

Having waited 5 years of development time for another Bioware PC RPG along the lines of  Baldur's Gate was tough as it was. Now that actual series is being moved entirely in the opposite direction to entice the console crowd/more casuals. When do the folks who enjoy more classic trappings of CRPG's and  have stuck with Bioware through the Jade Empires and Mass Effects  get their own series that caters to them?

[crimzontearz]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Aermas wrote...

What ever happened to the "Sorry It's My Fault" sig?

It might be difficult to believe, but I do respect that others want different things in a game than I. When we first learned that companion outfits were fixed, I was quite happy and also felt vindicated. I don't like people slamming me as a console kiddie because I suggest a feature they aren't into.

Still, no need to constantly aggravate others. I understand why some prefer to change their companion's outfits and enjoy the constant upgrading of gear. They're not *wrong* to do so and there's no need to prickle at people who might already be feeling disappointed.

Unless, of course, Sarah pops into a thread just to be her charming self and complain about the 'garbage' I've forced upon innocent RPing gamers.

Hey, I'm giving you a scape goat, be happy. And I'm sorry, removing choice in a CRPG of any level that has always worked before, especially in a game trumped up as a spiritial successor to BG (so glad that lasted all of one game ) is a garbage design decision.


Gonna be so awesome to watch Isabella in the same outfit for 10 years worth of narrative game time, and watch people wade into melee combat in skin tight/skimpy outfits. It looked **** stupid in ME2, and it will still look **** stupid in DA2.

you know Sarah, maybe I am being stupid or maybe it's that one  Molsen's I had with dinner (yes I drink canadian beer sometimes) but let's see  if I can use a peripatetic way to get to the point

WHY (aside for the sheer possibility of choice) do you want to be able to fully equip your party? (and by fully I mean their armor since everything  else is there)

what were you essentially doing in DAO while you were putting armor pieces on your party member?

Nothing wrong with Canadian beer, granted I perfer Vodka and a mixer myself (not too keen on beer) but to each their own.

Aside from choice, its a staple of the genre to find some great loot after a quest, and be able to upgrade your party's equipment for future, tougher parts of the game. Now that whole part of the game aside from rings and belts and adding a rune or what not is gone for set outfits with not much added in its place.  Party customization has always been one of my favorite aspects of party based cprg's. To watch it disappear for apparently no real good reason other than a shortened dev cycle and because a few people get off on "unique companion looks" really annoys the hell out of me.

answer the second question "what were you doing in DAO when you were putting on different pieces of armor on your companions"

Customizing my party's gear to better augment whatever  their skill set was for that particular play through was mostly, but again one of the main reasons I play CPRG's because I like choices in games, be it story related, quest decisions, or changing gear around. Watching an aspect of that go away just because.. Well it makes me a sad panda.

now think........isn't that EXCATLY what you will be doing with belts/rings/runes/amulets/upgrades and weapons themselves in DA2?

Gaider and Laidlaw said it flat out that the only purpose of those items now is to provide the buffs that armor is not there to do (mind you they also said you can buy upgraded "armor/outfits" for the party or find it). The only difference is "where" the agumentation comes from but the concept is the same. In DA2 you will be sorting through amulets, rings, belts and whatnot to add bonuses or agument the abilities of your party dependiong on the kind of build you have for each character be it defense, attack, magical resistance and so on. You WILL be able to give extra defense to isabela and boost her dexterity to make her into the fabled rogue tank, you WILL be able to take Bethany and  add particular primal boosting amulets or runes to make her the perfect nuker, you WILL be able to customize hawke in the very same way.
which is pretty much the SAME thing you were doing before right? 

can you deny it? short of saying " the devs are utterly lying to me, none of this is true and I KNOW even without proof that DA2 will feature no such agumentation system" can you really say this is not exactly what you were doing before but in another form?

[MerinTB]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Having waited 5 years of development time for another Bioware PC RPG along the lines of  Baldur's Gate was tough as it was. Now that actual series is being moved entirely in the opposite direction to entice the console crowd/more casuals. When do the folks who enjoy more classic trappings of CRPG's and  have stuck with Bioware through the Jade Empires and Mass Effects  get their own series that caters to them?

We don't.  We have to look to other developers for it.  BioWare's moved out of niche and into mainstream, and cRPGs are niche.  They'll never move 5 million, let alone 10 million, classic RPG games.

They don't owe us for Quixotically waiting on them to "reward" us or "come to their senses."  The outright hostility I often feel from some of the devs who post on here should be enough of a hint that we are not going to be really considered, let alone catered to.

That's not an evil thing on their part, it's a masochistic thing on OUR part.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

crimzontearz wrote...


now think........isn't that EXCATLY what you will be doing with belts/rings/runes/amulets/upgrades and weapons themselves in DA2?

Gaider and Laidlaw said it flat out that the only purpose of those items now is to provide the buffs that armor is not there to do (mind you they also said you can buy upgraded "armor/outfits" for the party or find it). The only difference is "where" the agumentation comes from but the concept is the same. In DA2 you will be sorting through amulets, rings, belts and whatnot to add bonuses or agument the abilities of your party dependiong on the kind of build you have for each character be it defense, attack, magical resistance and so on. You WILL be able to give extra defense to isabela and boost her dexterity to make her into the fabled rogue tank, you WILL be able to take Bethany and  add particular primal boosting amulets or runes to make her the perfect nuker, you WILL be able to customize hawke in the very same way.
which is pretty much the SAME thing you were doing before right? 

can you deny it? short of saying " the devs are utterly lying to me, none of this is true and I KNOW even without proof that DA2 will feature no such agumentation system" can you really say this is not exactly what you were doing before but in another form?

Right but she'll still look like a moron fighting in a skin tight "pirate outfit ARRG Matey" for the entire game, which kinda defeats the whole "customization" purpose.

[Sir JK]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

1) Obviously if you have no clue a battle is coming you might not be well prepared. Although if you are traveling along the roads you could reasonably assume bandits or creatures may attack you and so a sane person would be as well prepared as possible....

I think the roads, on average is a whole lot emptier than the games generally does present. Let's take Origins as an example... how many random encounters with combat do you face? A bunch... now remember that you're travelling through a war zone with a heavily armed big party under a two year time-period.
I think it ends with being one combat encounter every 2 months or so... during a war!

2) I'm sure the enemies will be wearing armor and I'm sure there will be armor available in stores. Want to make  a bet on that?

Ah yes. I have adressed that previously. Why is it that wearing armour for realism is required but the realistic cost and limitations that armour means is handwaved? Why must we wear protection for realism but the realistic notion of not finding fitting/affordable notion is ignored?

In the middle ages to be able to get proper armour you had to either be filthy rich (knights and above) or have your liege buy it for you (as happened to regular soldiers). Why is this realistic limitation ignored when the protection aspect is not?

3) Armor interferes with a mage's spellcasting ability. Also, mages, unless they are of the arcane warrior type are not in the front lines. And arcane warriors do wear armor.

Could I get a quote on the spellcasting inteference. I have not found a source on that and I'd love to read it
And mages are too on the "front lines"... being 6  to 30m form the enemy is very much in the thick of it. It takes enemy combatants little more than seconds to reach the mages.
Front line is also a battle concept... it literally refers to the first line of soldiers in the formations (and in modern times the geographic area combat takes place in).  In skirmishes, like we will be fighitng, there is no front or back. Just the skirmish.

And yes, I do know arcane warrior (the extinct elven profession) wear armour. I was refering to the regular ones.