934 réponses à ce sujet

[Nohvarr]

Aermas wrote...

Okay, to all of those saying "Only nobles can afford armor"; well yes, but are you forgetting that we will become rich & famous? The main character always gets richer, & more important. Your argument in invalid.

And, as has been established, the main character can still wear whatever armor they wish to purchase. However, it's not said that they are SO rich that they can afford to buy properly fitted, master work armor for 12 people. There's rich and then there's wealthy beyond the dreams of avarice.

To those that say armor restricts movement; you've been lied to, check your facts. Your argument is invalid.

As others have said, properly fitted armor has only a minimal affect on movement. However that armor you found in a chest is not properly fitted to Aveline. To be 'realistic' we'd have to take it someone who knos how to make the proper modifications to size this gear for Aveline's body type. That's extra coin, time and tedium to be 'realistic.

To those who say Isabela can just dodge all the attacks, dodging takes more energy & focus than letting your armor take it.

Isabel tosses a smoke bomb in your face at the start of a fight. You're choking on smoke, your eyes are watering and your ears are ringing. Your impaired, badly so and not in a position to fight at your best, whereas Isabela is fresh and free to manuver.

You seem to think that agility is her only skill, when a proper Rogue is going to pull out every dirty trick in the book to win a fight. That's why I loved playing as the Rogue in DnD Shadows over Mystara arcade game. I fought dirty, taking down better armored opponents with skill, guile and whole lot of underhanded tricks,
 

[Sigil_Beguiler123]

Nohvarr wrote...

That's why I loved playing as the Rogue in DnD Shadows over Mystara arcade game. I fought dirty, taking down better armored opponents with skill, guile and whole lot of underhanded tricks,
 

My Tiefling rogue would love your rogue. Oh being immune to poison so you can crush your fake tooth and spit it into the eyes of your enemy, what a fun time it is.

[Aermas]

I'm talking about defense. If I hit Isabela she should take damage. If I hit Aveline she should take less.

Isabela can have all the annoying rogue crap she wants, this is not the argument.

[Piecake]

Aermas wrote...

I'm talking about defense. If I hit Isabela she should take damage. If I hit Aveline she should take less.
Isabela can have all the annoying rogue crap she wants, this is not the argument.

And this might be the case.  Why not wait and find out?

[Sir JK]

To be honest Aermas... it's a bit early to argue about that. You might get exactly what you want in that regard. We don't know yet and will have to wait and see

But now it's time for me to sleep, so I'll have to take a brief recess in our discussions. See you in the morning.

Modifié par Sir JK, 01 décembre 2010 - 04:15 .

[Il Divo]

Aermas wrote...

I'm talking about defense. If I hit Isabela she should take damage. If I hit Aveline she should take less.
Isabela can have all the annoying rogue crap she wants, this is not the argument.

The point is your argument makes no sense. You'd prefer having one 'facet' of realism while ignoring about fifty others,. And for some reason, this should be used as a reason for Bioware to implement armor? "If I hit Isabela she should take damage". Well, you're not going to be hitting Isabela. Rogues thrive on not being seen, not being hit, and doing whatever they have to in order to bring you down. If you want 'realism' we could start talking about the aggro mechanics. We could talk about any number of points. Bringing up 'in a real fight' that Isabela would tire herself out against someone wearing full plate is irrelevant. This isn't real life.

Modifié par Il Divo, 01 décembre 2010 - 04:20 .

[cmathews03]

Aermas wrote...

You're not being logical. Isabela & Aveline will always take the same amount of damage, & it's not consistent, it's not realistic, it's not rational, & it's not right!

I actually bothered to read this thread in its entirety, and I was willing to proffer a response to it... until I read this post. Your stubbornness not other distracts from discussion, it discourages discussion. If you're going to hold steadfast to your opinions without maintaining an open mind to varying perspectives, what the hell is the point? 

Besides, all your arguments are circular and steeped in history that doesn't necessarily pertain to the world of Thedas. It's a game--and a fantasy game at that. Insisting that the world of Thedas remain completely consistent with our world is not only juvenile but it's just nonsensical. 

Get over yourself.

Modifié par cmathews03, 01 décembre 2010 - 08:54 .

[soteria]

I'm talking about defense. If I hit Isabela she should take damage. If I hit Aveline she should take less.

Sigh... there's no evidence to indicate that won't be the case. You're arguing against an imaginary problem.

[Ziggeh]

cmathews03 wrote...

Besides, all your arguments are circular and steeped in history that doesn't necessarily pertain to the world of Thedas.

I think he's sort of proud of that fact.

[Johnny Chaos]

Aermas wrote...

I'm talking about defense. If I hit Isabela she should take damage. If I hit Aveline she should take less.
Isabela can have all the annoying rogue crap she wants, this is not the argument.

Isabela has boobs of steel with pus infinite shock absorb

[Matchy Pointy]

I'm still wondering where the realism is in shooting fire out of your fingertips...

Modifié par Matchy Pointy, 01 décembre 2010 - 06:08 .

[AlanC9]

soteria wrote...

I'm talking about defense. If I hit Isabela she should take damage. If I hit Aveline she should take less.

Sigh... there's no evidence to indicate that won't be the case. You're arguing against an imaginary problem.

A few pages ago I thought the problem was supposed to be that Isabela won't be able to equip heavier armor, and therefore will take more damage and so won't be able to tank. Though I thnk that was Sylvius' issue, not Aermas'.

[the_one_54321]

Aermas wrote...
I'm talking about defense. If I hit Isabela she should take damage. If I hit Aveline she should take less.
Isabela can have all the annoying rogue crap she wants, this is not the argument.

It might actually end up working that way. We don't know yet. As for me, if it doesn't that way, I really won't care all that much.

[AlexXIV]

Aermas wrote...

I'm talking about defense. If I hit Isabela she should take damage. If I hit Aveline she should take less.
Isabela can have all the annoying rogue crap she wants, this is not the argument.

I wonder who ever said that Isabella can take same amount or even more dmg than Aveline? I am sure the game mechanics work the same way as in DA:O where rogues take more dmg than tanks. Maybe Isabella's dress even counts as leather or whatever. Also you should consider this: First, most things we have seen happen very early in game. Maybe Avelina had to leave her armor behind or something. Second, Aveline may only be a prologue character which means she won't be available after you arrive Kirkwall and then she maybe wears city guard armor or something. Maybe Bioware just didn't feel to make a unique armor set for a character that is only available for like half an hour play time.

There is too much assuming going on here and I really think you take this whole topic too serious. I don't think any dev confirmed that there is no heavy armor at all. I am sure there is, just like in DA:O.

[Winter Wraith]

Johnny Chaos wrote...
Isabela has boobs of steel with pus infinite shock absorb

She should probably see about getting that infection cleared up.

[David Gaider]

AlexXIV wrote...
There is too much assuming going on here and I really think you take this whole topic too serious. I don't think any dev confirmed that there is no heavy armor at all. I am sure there is, just like in DA:O.

I think people conjure worst-case scenarios in their head-- and when they bring them up they get angry about the possibility, and the more they're discussed the more people begin to assume that must be the way we're doing it...  especially if we don't rush right in and clarify, not that some people are keen to listen anyhow since they object to the concept in principle. But there you go.

[crimzontearz]

hey Divo, la tua citazione di Andreotti regna suprema, peccato solo pochi la possano capire qui nel Forum.



On topic. HP suck, helth levels as done by WOD 2.0 games is a much more sensible abstraction and more fair as well but I digress.



Gaider and Laidlaw never said damage would be fixed...they actually pretty much confirmed the opposite as another dev in the hawke's armor thread (started by me) explained exactly how armor soaked damage.

So what are people arguing about now?

[Matchy Pointy]

Oh, I'm just saying I have the utmost trust in that the game will be awesoe, and I support more unique follower styles, everyone looking the same gets boring after a while, I'm just here for the debate of armour in use, which might be a bit off topic.

[Qset]

In Exile wrote...

Inventory slots are identical across the games,
unless Bioware has has changed these features.

What we cannot
change is armour, and armour influenced was by statistical distribution, like I said above.

ok, yes agreed on this, I see what you meant by the armor reference now, as far as we know its only those three armor slots that have changed and become a single slot.

I wouldn't see why not. We have the same stats, and we have been given no reason to believe we cannot freely distribute stat points at level up. 

yes, as long as they provide the same amount of stat distribution whn they boil three armor slots into 1 - agreed.

Now, like I said above, there are few actual combat roles. But lots of suboptimal roles for those builds. And I'm sure DA:O will allow you to make mistakes building a character.

agreed, there will be a very few optimum builds depending on class and intended role with everything else getting progressively more compromised.

Here is the thing: most DA:O customization was just statistical distribution. We know inventory items do not usually have class restrictions and we can level up stats. That's really all you could customize in DA:O, so I can't see the difference.

yes, so if the level of customisation is similar then I can make a sub optimum rogue tank or dps warrior just as I could do in DAO.

This I just found patronising

/

I apologize, but I look harshly on DA:O as a "customizable" game. We are allowed very little practical freedom in combat because the rules we have are very fixed. We can just build lots of different bad characters at them.

apology accepted  just me being a bit snarky, end of a long day....

[Qset]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I'm willing to believe a lot of what fiction tells me is possible and probable within its own universe. Case in point the martial arts in Equilibrium:

Gun Kata is a fictional gun-fighting martial art discipline that is a significant part of the film. It is based upon the premise that, given the positions of the participants in a gun battle, the trajectories of fire are statistically predictable. By pure memorization of the positions, one can fire at the most likely location of an enemy without aiming at him in the traditional sense of pointing a gun at a specific target. By the same token, the trajectories of incoming fire are also statistically predictable, so by assuming the appropriate stance, one can keep one's body clear of the most likely way of enemy bullets.

The Gun Kata shown in Equilibrium is a hybrid mix of Kurt Wimmer's own style of Gun Kata (which he invented in his backyard)[2] and the martial arts style of the choreographer. They disagreed on the appropriate form of Gun Kata, with Kurt Wimmer advocating a smoother, flowing style and the choreographer supporting a more rigid style. Much of the Gun Kata seen in the film is based on the choreographer's style.[3] Kurt Wimmer's Gun Kata is dispersed sparsely throughout the movie, most notably in the introductory scene with the silhouetted man, played by Wimmer himself, practicing with dual pistols.

I loved that film  thanks for the reminder.  Very good example Shorts.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

David Gaider wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
There is too much assuming going on here and I really think you take this whole topic too serious. I don't think any dev confirmed that there is no heavy armor at all. I am sure there is, just like in DA:O.

I think people conjure worst-case scenarios in their head-- and when they bring them up they get angry about the possibility, and the more they're discussed the more people begin to assume that must be the way we're doing it...  especially if we don't rush right in and clarify, not that some people are keen to listen anyhow since they object to the concept in principle. But there you go.

Psssst PC gameplay. It'd be as easy as that to show some. The fact that we're roughly 3 months out and you guys have shown essentially zero PC gameplay that isn't in the form of a sizzle trailer is kinda ridiculous considering you want people to prepay by a deadline set 2 months before the actual release date. Shady marketing 101.

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Psssst PC gameplay. It'd be as easy as that to show some. The fact that we're roughly 3 months out and you guys have shown essentially zero PC gameplay that isn't in the form of a sizzle trailer is kinda ridiculous considering you want people to prepay by a deadline set 2 months before the actual release date. Shady marketing 101.

... and they haven't shown console gameplay either, it's not a PC-related issue.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Psssst PC gameplay. It'd be as easy as that to show some. The fact that we're roughly 3 months out and you guys have shown essentially zero PC gameplay that isn't in the form of a sizzle trailer is kinda ridiculous considering you want people to prepay by a deadline set 2 months before the actual release date. Shady marketing 101.

... and they haven't shown console gameplay either, it's not a PC-related issue.

Right but I couldn't care any less about the console versions to be honest with you. Its apparent that tons of attention went to those versions this time out. I'm more worried the PC version ends up feeling more like a 360 port with a PC GUI at this point.

[Ziggeh]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
I'm more worried the PC version ends up feeling more like a 360 port with a PC GUI at this point.

The problem with console ports is the often clumsy gui, so a console port with a pc gui is.....a pc game