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The evaluation of armor, it's purpose in companions' use, & it's effects in the game


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#801
Ziggeh

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Aermas wrote...
The weak point in most of the arguments here
is the fact that most everything is subjective. & that people ignore
facts

This made me laugh out loud. You're entirely correct.

MerinTB wrote...
I dislike cats, am allergic, and think their fur is one of the most annoying things to touch in the world.

So, yes, subjective.

Soft, as in "gives easily under pressure". Clearly tests need to be done to confirm they meet this definition. Bring me several kittens and a stick.

#802
Aermas

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A kitten is only as soft as you perceive it to be. If you spend your life covered in softer than the kitten you would perceive the kitten to be rough.

#803
soteria

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MerinTB wrote...

I dislike cats, am allergic, and think their fur is one of the most annoying things to touch in the world.

So, yes, subjective.


Wait a minute. Nothing in that says that the softness or coarseness of kitten fur is subjective. You just said you don't like it. How does that make "kitten fur is soft" subjective?

Aernas wrote...

The weak point in most of the arguments here is the fact that most everything is subjective. & that people ignore facts


Some things are subjective, other things are relative, and other things are objective. It's not all subjective--it's not even mostly subjective. "My jeans are made of blue, coarse denim" is an objective statement. "My jeans are made of comfortable denim" is a subjective statement. "My jeans are less comfortable than my slacks" is relative. Throwing up your hands and saying "it's all subjective" is just untrue. Saying "most things are subjective, and people ignore facts" is just silly since the implication of the second contradicts the first.

#804
cmathews03

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Aermas wrote...

The weak point in most of the arguments here is the fact that most everything is subjective. & that people ignore facts


I hope you're including yourself in that generalization. 

Modifié par cmathews03, 02 décembre 2010 - 05:02 .


#805
Ziggeh

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cmathews03 wrote...

Aermas wrote...

The weak point in most of the arguments here is the fact that most everything is subjective. & that people ignore facts


I hope you're including yourself in that generalization. 

He'll ignore that :P

Also, I'm really not getting into a semantic debate over the definition of "soft" because I explained someone was subject to confirmation bias. I'm not ready for that particular low point in my life.

#806
Aermas

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That's because you have no logical recourse. & no my argument have been supported by logic & applicable facts.

#807
MerinTB

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ziggehunderslash wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
I dislike cats, am allergic, and think their fur is one of the most annoying things to touch in the world.
So, yes, subjective.

Soft, as in "gives easily under pressure". Clearly tests need to be done to confirm they meet this definition. Bring me several kittens and a stick.


"Gives easily under pressure" is the first thing you think of when you hear the word soft?  REALLY?

Huh.  I think soft (as in what I consider most people would be referring to fur) as any of the following definitions of soft -
"smooth or fine to the touch" and "not irritating" and "mild, not harsh or corrosive"

Touching a cat's fur will enact my allergies, which (among other things) causes my skin to get a rash.  Top that out by making me touch a cat makes me uncomfortable.

Now, subjectively, I'd say my dog's fur is very soft ... it feels nice, I enjoying petting her, and it doesn't irritate me in anyway.

But, using your definition, I guess kitten hair does give easily under pressure - if you compare the pressure needed to bend a piece of wood....
but it takes more pressure to bend kitten hair than to pop a soap bubble or bend a piece of string, so... relative to that, it's harder to bend via pressure.

:innocent:

Modifié par MerinTB, 02 décembre 2010 - 05:10 .


#808
Ziggeh

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MerinTB wrote...
"Gives easily under pressure" is the first thing you think of when you hear the word soft?  REALLY?

Man, I really can't help myself: it's not the first thing I think of, no, I tend to think visually so I might see a sponge, or a kitten. But I think it's a pretty good definition though. Nature of the langauge to be reasonably fuzzy (or soft) mind.

MerinTB wrote...
Huh.  I think soft (as in what I consider most people would be referring to fur) as any of the following definitions of soft -
"smooth or fine to the touch" and "not irritating" and "mild, not harsh or corrosive"

Polished metal fits any of those. But like I say, that doesn't instantly make them innappropriate.

MerinTB wrote...
But, using your definition, I guess kitten hair does give easily under pressure - if you compare the pressure needed to bend a piece of wood....
but it takes more pressure to bend kitten hair than to pop a soap bubble or bend a piece of string, so... relative to that, it's harder to bend via pressure.

So I guess it depends where you place "soft" on the sliding scale of bendiness. In which case I will concede that it is subjective but with a very narrow and binary scope which requires unusual circumstances (flexible definitions, allergy and/or being surrounded by marshmallow from birth) to find oneself outside of the common consensus.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 02 décembre 2010 - 05:28 .


#809
TheRevelator

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Cats suck. Dogs are easily better.

#810
Ziggeh

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Aermas wrote...

& no my argument have been supported by logic & applicable facts.

I'm not going to get into what we consider logic to mean, but you're very keen on bring up entirely non applicable facts, such as the realistic nature of armour as it pertains to fictional game constructs.

#811
Aermas

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 Logic only means one thing, I like how you ignore my example of kitten softness:P

#812
soteria

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So I guess it depends where you place "soft" on the sliding scale of bendiness. In which case I will concede that it is subjective but with a very narrow and binary scope which requires unusual circumstances (flexible definitions, allergy and/or being surrounded by marshmallow from birth) to find oneself outside of the common consensus.


Eh, no. Allergic reactions aren't instant, even when they happen quickly. It's not like the objective experience of touching a cat is different for someone with allergies; he just has a negative experience associated with them and is being intentionally difficult. Besides, we have comparative terms like "softer" for a reason. It's possible for cat hair, a soap bubble, and a piece of string all to be soft.

#813
Piecake

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Aermas wrote...

That's because you have no logical recourse. & no my argument have been supported by logic & applicable facts.


your argument is based on an assumption

#814
Matchy Pointy

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And when it coms to metal armour I'm not sure it helps or hinders if you get assaulted by a fiireball. Sure, it will probably burn you alive if you get hit without any playearmour, but on the other hand, I wouldnt want to be cooked alive by platearmour that's heated up by the fire either.

And one fact that everyone seems to miss, you don't play what really happend, you play how Varric tells of events that happend.

Modifié par Matchy Pointy, 02 décembre 2010 - 05:40 .


#815
Leonia

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Philosophical debate on the softness of kitten fur aside, this thread is severely lacking in naked imagery. Leo disapproves -5.

#816
Ziggeh

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soteria wrote...

So I guess it depends where you place "soft" on the sliding scale of bendiness. In which case I will concede that it is subjective but with a very narrow and binary scope which requires unusual circumstances (flexible definitions, allergy and/or being surrounded by marshmallow from birth) to find oneself outside of the common consensus.

Eh, no. Allergic reactions aren't instant, even when they happen quickly. It's not like the objective experience of touching a cat is different for someone with allergies; he just has a negative experience associated with them and is being intentionally difficult. Besides, we have comparative terms like "softer" for a reason. It's possible for cat hair, a soap bubble, and a piece of string all to be soft.

I used to have an allergy to grass pollen, I grew out of it fairly earlier, but I still hate the smell because of the association. Smell obviously has a lot more scope for disagreement, but while I'm not entirely convinced he doesn't feel kitten hair fits into the definition of soft, I can understand his point.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 02 décembre 2010 - 05:43 .


#817
Nerivant

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leonia42 wrote...

Philosophical debate on the softness of kitten fur aside, this thread is severely lacking in naked imagery. Leo disapproves -5.


They were deleted by mods. :whistle:

Modifié par Nerivant, 02 décembre 2010 - 05:43 .


#818
Johnny Chaos

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yo i want spartan spandex for my hawke

#819
Ziggeh

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Aermas wrote...

 Logic only means one thing,

One would think so, yes.

Aermas wrote...
I like how you ignore my example of kitten softness:P

We're literally discussing it right now. How is actively discussing the example ignoring it?

#820
Aermas

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ziggehunderslash wrote...

Aermas wrote...

 Logic only means one thing,

One would think so, yes.

Aermas wrote...
I like how you ignore my example of kitten softness:P

We're literally discussing it right now. How is actively discussing the example ignoring it?


Keywords, my example. If you only experience things softer than a kitten's fur then the kitten's fur feels coarse.

#821
Ziggeh

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Aermas wrote...

Keywords, my example. If you only experience things softer than a kitten's fur then the kitten's fur feels coarse.


ziggehunderslash wrote...
So I guess it depends
where you place "soft" on the sliding scale of bendiness. In which case I will concede that it is subjective but with a very narrow and binary scope which requires unusual circumstances (flexible definitions, allergy and/or being surrounded by marshmallow from birth) to find oneself outside of the common consensus.


Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 02 décembre 2010 - 05:48 .


#822
Leonia

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There is a scale for hardness/softness of which I am fairly sure diamonds rank the highest for hardness on. Just saying, it can be empirically measured.

#823
Aermas

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Well then you admit that it is subjective. So your original point of



"The way to make it "feel" like a console port is to keep telling yourself it is, that way, when your bias is confirmed you can say I told you so."



is wrong.

#824
My Avatar is a turtle

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This thread is crazy

#825
Winter Wraith

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leonia42 wrote...

There is a scale for hardness/softness of which I am fairly sure diamonds rank the highest for hardness on. Just saying, it can be empirically measured.


Mohs scale of mineral hardness.