59 réponses à ce sujet

[Fester Pot]

For any Ultima fans, this took me back!



Blogging Ultima



FP!

[Taritu]

Didn't play SSI's RPG games (though I loved Panzer General). First CRPG I played was the the first Wizardry on the Apple 2. And first shooter I played was the first Wolfensenstein on the Apple 2. Little stick man running around shooting people. I remember them talking about the wonderful language they were programming in: Pascal!

[Beerfish]

There were so many good old rpgs back in the day. I only played two of the ultimas 7 and 8 i think.

Phantasy, bards tale, alternate reality, wizards crown, dungeon master.

[LaztRezort]

Wait, I thought WoW was the first RPG ever made:whistle:
*dodges thrown rocks*

Seriously though, I'll name some of the other RPGs I remember fondly from the days of the C64, since the main ones have been mentioned.  Dragon Wars.  Might and Magic (1,2, maybe 3?).  Legend of Blacksilver.  Sword of Fargoal.  Faery Tale (not turn-based, but still fun).  Questron.  The Magic Candle.  Dungeon Master.  All the Wizardry games.

Yeah, Ultima V was probably my favorite, though.  I liked the non-standard fantasy setting of Ultima, personally.

Edit:  @Beerfish:  Ah, I forgot Wizards Crown!  (and slightly ninja'd)

Modifié par LaztRezort, 26 octobre 2009 - 11:37 .

[MrGOH]

All this reminiscing has persuaded me to find and play the old Gold Box games - I was just a tad too young to enjoy them when they were released in the late 80's and early 90's. Any suggestions on where I can find them?

[PsychoBlonde]

MrGOH wrote...

All this reminiscing has persuaded me to find and play the old Gold Box games - I was just a tad too young to enjoy them when they were released in the late 80's and early 90's. Any suggestions on where I can find them?

Ebay.  All the old SSI games were re-released later on in collections and it's not that hard to find copies if you're interested.  The full list goes something like this:

Pool of Radiance
Curse of the Azure Bonds
Secret of the Silver Blades
Pools of Darkness

Champions of Krynn
Death Knights of Krynn
Dark Queen of Krynn

Gateway to the Savage Frontier
Treasures of the Savage Frontier

Unlimited Adventures  (this was the "gold box toolset", not really a full game on its own)

Eye of the Beholder
Eye of the Beholder II
Eye of the Beholder III

Dark Sun (Shattered Lands)
Dark Sun (Wake of the Ravager)

Menzoberranzan
Ravenloft (Strahd's Possession)
Ravenloft 2 (Stone Prophet)
Al-Quadim Genie's Curse

Your biggest problem is that these games are all DOS-monsters and they will fight to the grim death over that 640K of "base memory" that they think they have to have.  Wake of the Ravager in particular wants SO much base memory that I remember having to write special autoexec.bat files to fool DOS into shoving things into upper memory so the game wouldn't crap out.  Of course, there may be platforms out there for playing some of these old games on modern computers.

There were also several Buck Rogers games in there, I think, but I stuck with the D&D-based stuff.

[MrGOH]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

MrGOH wrote...

All this reminiscing has persuaded me to find and play the old Gold Box games - I was just a tad too young to enjoy them when they were released in the late 80's and early 90's. Any suggestions on where I can find them?

Ebay.  All the old SSI games were re-released later on in collections and it's not that hard to find copies if you're interested. 

*snip*

Your biggest problem is that these games are all DOS-monsters and they will fight to the grim death over that 640K of "base memory" that they think they have to have.  Wake of the Ravager in particular wants SO much base memory that I remember having to write special autoexec.bat files to fool DOS into shoving things into upper memory so the game wouldn't crap out.  Of course, there may be platforms out there for playing some of these old games on modern computers.

There were also several Buck Rogers games in there, I think, but I stuck with the D&D-based stuff.

I think I can get this stuff to run on my machine if I can find it; I have my old version of x-com up and running on DOSBox and a frontend. I was under the impression that online retailers offer these for download or that they're abandonware and freely  and legally available online. But if they're only available over ebay, I'll take a look at what's available.

[PsychoBlonde]

Magnum Opus wrote...

Would have to disagree with that, personally.

PoR2 was a flop because it used a neutered version of the 3rd edition DnD rules that managed to miss the entire point of the new rules (selectable feats and character customization), because it was buggy as all get-out when it was first foisted off to the public and because it's animations were as slow as molasses (and they only had maybe five separate animations in the game as a whole).

ToEE was a flop because it had no story.  At all. Its much ballyhooed "selling point", the Opening Vignettes (very much like DA:O's origin stories in concept), turned out to be little more than PR for all the effect they had in the game, and it was a buggy heap too, so much so that many people couldn't even finish it.

Heh, those people had the opposite problem from me, then, because I finished ToEE ACCIDENTALLY before I'd seen more than about 1/5 of the content.  But, yes, I agree that the combat in ToEE was fantastic from a pure rules standpoint.  It was also murderously boring.

Neverwinter Nights 2 has ALL of the problems you've listed.  The story was unfinished.  The bugs were insane.  Yet it's been pretty durn successful despite those problems.  So bugs and story issues aren't enough to ruin a game if it's still fun to play.

Good turn-based tactical combat is really hard to do, MUCH harder than real-time because you don't have the benefit of the high speed creating excitement for you.  People mess this up even when they're trying to create software supports that assist with PnP games, because they put in stuff like radial menus that are a COLOSSAL PAIN IN THE ASS to click through in order to select options.

The secret to really fun turn-based tactical combat is having an all over system that works for and with a fast typist.  Use the keyboard, not the mouse.  USE THE GRID.  That tactical grid is there for a reason.  (This is one thing I REALLY like about DAJ, although I wish they'd used squares instead of hexes.)

The other big thing that the gold box games did right was that there were two types of fights.  The first type was the kind where you'd sneeze and it'd be over.  The second type was the kind where you were literally screaming for your character to MAKE THE SAVING THROW!!!!! so they wouldn't get disintegrated for the third time in a row.  Watching that fireball cycle through your characters was more nerve-wracking than anything I've seen in gaming since--except maybe for the Prince of Persia games.

[PsychoBlonde]

MrGOH wrote...

I think I can get this stuff to run on my machine if I can find it; I have my old version of x-com up and running on DOSBox and a frontend. I was under the impression that online retailers offer these for download or that they're abandonware and freely  and legally available online. But if they're only available over ebay, I'll take a look at what's available.

It looks like you CAN find the full version online if you search for them.  Here's one for PoR: http://www.thehouseo...x.php?t=10&id=8

[Darke1]

wonko33 wrote...

Do you guys miss that kind of play? Turn based for more strategy instead of AI controlled or jumping around like a madman to issue commands to all the players your controlling?

Yeah, i like that turn-based stuff and DA:J was good fun (if a little repetative by the end), but then more up-to-date (relatively) games gave you that, with Balder's Gate, ToEE and Neverwinter Knights 2 (if pause function was on).

I loved ToEE and it was such a shame it seemed to finish short and never had a part 2 to carry on your characters with.

This is part of the reason i'm glad Dragon Age has the pause option, so it can be played as a more turn-based game for tactical thinking.

Modifié par Darke1, 27 octobre 2009 - 08:50 .

[Korva]

The combat in Journeys reminded me quite a bit of Heroes of Might & Magic (of which I've played parts 2 and 4) and actually made me want to dig 'em out again.

My first CRPG was Eye of the Beholder on the Amiga 500 so I don't go quite as far back as some of you. Then I tried Pool of Radiance and Curse of the Azure Bonds, which were grand fun if a tad silly (random encounters with three dracoliches below Shadowdale?!). I was starting to love the genre, though it was mainly monster bashing and exploration and not much story.

Then I discovered Ultima VI ... and a whole new world opened up. It blew me away. It made me fall head over heels for the series, which I still think is one of the few (especially among the oldies) that deserves the RPG label rather than "squad-based combat simulator". Few games have made me love a setting and its characters as much as the Ultima series.

Big time nostalgia, yes ... *sniff* And I do enjoy turn-based combat though it can drag out a bit and doesn't allow you to really react to what the enemy is doing. I think the BG series was a great compromise between turn-based and the ability to react real-time.

Unfortunately Bioware is the only developer these days whose games really draw me in -- not that, admittedly, I play many others. Too many other CRPGs or hybrids miss what is the first essential feature for me: the option to play a female character.

Modifié par Korva, 27 octobre 2009 - 10:21 .

[gotthammer]

Heheheh. A 'carbon dating' thread.

*sigh*

So many old games. Hmm, I think the only thing (at the moment) that I want to replay would be 'War of the Lance'. (or maybe some of those WW2 games. It's only in the past few years that I've been really interested in that conflict)

I even recall having an SSI catalogue...dang, where have the 80s gone?

[Mistersunshine]

Oh man, I LOVED those old gold-box games. Pretty much my favorite CRPGs of all time, until the Infinity Engine stuff came along. (Well, perhaps tied with Wasteland, which was really awesome.) The original Pool of Radiance was so amazing when it came out.



I'd totally love to see a new, good turn-based CRPG!

[Rwraith]

Not an SSI title but has anyone else played Darklands from Microprose? That game was WAY ahead of its time. I hope they update and bring it back someday.

[MDA_CG]

I consumed most of those old games. I also have a soft spot for Tunnels of Doom, played on a neighbor's TI and Deathlord, an asian-spin Ultima-like game I had on an Apple II clone.

[Joreg]

This thread brings back great memories, Grew up playing SSI's Phantasie series, Wizards Crown, Shard of Spring etc , Can still picture the great art work on the boxes and frightenly I can recollect one of first dungeons in Phantasy were you have to make a choice save either a prince or pheasant girl chained to a wall. RWaith you are so right about Darklands way ahead of it time but was rushed out to early full of bugs

[FalloutBoy]

Zilod wrote...

RooksBailey wrote...

Yeah, I am old enough to have played those SSI games.  What a great company that was, especially for wargames (anybody remember Reforger '88)?  Also, the old Ultima games were a lot of fun.

For those of you hoping to see another deep, turn-based RPG, you can look forward to Stardock's Elemental: War of Magic.  Stardock is one of the last, great turn-based game companies, and I am positive Elemental will be an awesome game.  Unfortunately, it looks like we won't get out hands on it until late 2010.    Well, I suppose DA:O will keep us busy until then. 

Elemental is not a RPG but a sort of civilization with fantasy setting, is actually the "remake" of another fantastic game: "Master of Magic" a real gem of the genere (and a game that i "loved")

I was just thinking about that game the other day. That's the game that finally got me to stop playing Civ. I loved that game! I also agree with the sentiment that Stardock makes really good strategy games.

[Xermina]

emyln wrote...

I loved those old RPG's. All the ultima's till 8, Might and Magic series esp fond memories of M&M2. But boy am I glad we got away from having to map each level ourselves.

That's what the spouse is for!!  At least, mine did the mapping while I controlled movement.  I'd have never made it through the old Wizardy games without graph paper

[PsychoBlonde]

Magnum Opus wrote...
Boring?  I'll definitely have to disagree with you on that score, then.  

I may be mis-remembering, but the main thing that made the combat boring for me was pulling up the same special abilities over and over again--and the lack of a grid became REALLY problematic in crowded fights because you couldn't judge AoE on spells or (worse) pathing easily.  After the fourth time a character got murdered because I clicked for them to go straight through what looked like a perfectly good gap between two critters and they sprinted off and ran halfway across the room, incurring half a dozen AoO's, I got fed up.  If I can't tell EXACTLY what square a character is standing in and EXACTLY where they're going to move when I click, forget it.  I do NOT want to be fighting with the computer over what gets done when in a tactical game.

[JasonNH]

Fester Pot wrote...

Ultima has always had a place in my heart.

FP!

I can't agree more. I still find myself drawn to completing my grand vision for an Ultima based mod in NWN2 ... *sigh*

[FKSSR]

I played several of the games mentioned in this thread, but I guess I'm a little younger than some of the other folks, because it wasn't until Fallout and Baldur's Gate that I really got into RPGs.



I wish BioWare would have made Fallout 3...

[Beerfish]

I would still play turn based games if they were good. I enjoyed wizardy 8 a ton.

[wonko33]

It is funny when something new and "improved" comes out, companies abandon what they were doing right before.



I would gladly relinquish some advancement in graphics and voiced character to get a story with more depth and player involvement.



Oblivion was ok about that and it seems DA with all the origins might be more story oriented too, I hope.

[Koralis]

Rwraith wrote...

Not an SSI title but has anyone else played Darklands from Microprose? That game was WAY ahead of its time. I hope they update and bring it back someday.

I liked Darklands a lot... as far as I know it innovated the simultaneous-action/pause mechanism and I loved their very different take on magic as prayer to particular saints.

I haven't heard anyone mention getting started on Ultima I though... am I really the oldest person here?