969 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Morrigans God son wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Ahh...that's right. Alistair was originally slated to be much older. It also explains alot of other things, such as people saying Alistair was a potential threat to Cailain's rule, which, for a bastard, would be a concern if Alistair was older, since succession traditionally and normally passes to the eldest child.

Wait... wait, what age is Alistair and what age is Cailain?

In the game, Alistair is 20-ish and Cailan 25-ish.

I had a thought about this on the commute home:  Alistair was supposed to be Katriel's.  (Actually the thought ran more like holy ****, Alistair was supposed to be Katriel's!!!)  I can't believe I never thought about it before, but the timeline fits and in the old forums Gaider said he had originally planned "something very different" for Katriel.

If that's true, then I'm glad they changed it since Fiona pwns Katriel hard.

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

Hanz54321 wrote...

I guess the mustache twirling gives way to the idea that he meant to kill Cailan.  I don't think that's the case.  But Loghain's expression when he says, "Yes Cailan . . . a glorious moment for us all," reveals that he knows that he's abandoning the battle and leaving the Wardens to die.  In a way he sounds resigned to doing what he feels he must and letting Cailan die.  But he's pulling one over on everyone.

Except Gaider said that he didn't make that decision until he saw the beacon.

The cutscenes are trying to hit you over the head with a hammer, it's true, but having studied the characters far too much than a person with a job should have, I hear those words as weary and resigned that it's going to end badly, but not necessarily just for Cailan and the Wardens.  Gaider has also said that Loghain didn't expect to get out of Ostagar alive.  My read is that his impulse was to be the hero and save Maric's son from himself, but in the final moment, his promise to Maric after West Hill clicks in his mind alongside the image of those chevaliers massed at the border, and he walks away.  Grimly, not triumphantly.

This. Completely agree.

[Persephone]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Except Gaider said that he didn't make that decision until he saw the beacon.

Of course, the voice over notes in the toolset say differently.

Since those VO notes appear to me to be reflected in the game, I personally follow them over Gaider's posts on the forum.

Exactly my line of thinking.

See, and I think the main writer of the game knows best. Both works, I guess.

[Addai]

Hanz54321 wrote...

George Lucas says a lot of things too . . . but it's clear he changes his mind every 15 seconds or so when you watch the man speak.  Look up the 9 part, 90 minute YouTube review of The Phantom Menace by RedLetterMedia.  Even when I see Star Wars documentaries on TV . . . George Lucas should never allow himself to be recorded or interviewed.  And I love Star Wars.  I mean even the general ideas behind te newer films are awesome.  But the creator just flows with so many ideas that he re-writes his own canon and after 30 years it has become so full of holes I can strain spagetti with it.

I truly believe Gaider is FoS about some of the things he says . . . like he makes it so after the fact . . . like Lucas.

So as always I appreciate the response . . . but i'll  pass on the idea that Loghain didn't intend to strategically abandon the wardens from the start.

Dude, George Lucas?  That's harsh.  No one who actually considers themselves a writer would want to be compared to him. 

It's your prerogative to think as you like, of course.  And like I said somewhere, the game writers like to leave a certain openness for that reason.

[Esbatty]

I just want another damn Dragon Age book. I'm scared of what Orson Scott Card is doing with the DA comic seeing all the delays and the fact he kinda butchered Ultimate Iron Man back in the day.

[Ryzaki]

Heck we could use JK Rowling.

...*takes deep breathe and resists the urge to rant about how interviews that contradict canon and make no damn sense given what's actually in the books are somehow more correct than the books because it came out of the author's mouth*

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 novembre 2010 - 06:42 .

[Addai]

Addai67 wrote...

Hanz54321 wrote...

George Lucas says a lot of things too . . . but it's clear he changes his mind every 15 seconds or so when you watch the man speak.  Look up the 9 part, 90 minute YouTube review of The Phantom Menace by RedLetterMedia.  Even when I see Star Wars documentaries on TV . . . George Lucas should never allow himself to be recorded or interviewed.  And I love Star Wars.  I mean even the general ideas behind te newer films are awesome.  But the creator just flows with so many ideas that he re-writes his own canon and after 30 years it has become so full of holes I can strain spagetti with it.

I truly believe Gaider is FoS about some of the things he says . . . like he makes it so after the fact . . . like Lucas.

So as always I appreciate the response . . . but i'll  pass on the idea that Loghain didn't intend to strategically abandon the wardens from the start.

Dude, George Lucas?  That's harsh.  No one who actually considers themselves a writer would want to be compared to him. 

It's your prerogative to think as you like, of course.  And like I said somewhere, the game writers like to leave a certain openness for that reason.

(Husband)

Gaider may not be Lukas but some of the stuff from RTO is a Lukas like asspull.   And the question is how much of that did the "powers that be" put up with and endorse....   For game purposes it is officially canon.

Modifié par Addai67, 30 novembre 2010 - 07:00 .

[Esbatty]

As long as Gaider doesn't go Stephen King on us and make events from his life not only canon but part of future sequels.

Modifié par Esbatty, 30 novembre 2010 - 07:00 .

[Addai]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Asspull . . . I'm adding that to my vocabulary. I like it.

(husband)

You may enjoy this then.


tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Asspull

[Esbatty]

Addai67 wrote...

Hanz54321 wrote...

Asspull . . . I'm adding that to my vocabulary. I like it.

(husband)

You may enjoy this then.


tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Asspull

Dammit... a half hour of life disappeared on the TV Tropes page. I only stopped because I was re-reading entries I've already read several times.

[Addai]

Ryzaki wrote...

Heck we could use JK Rowling.

...*takes deep breathe and resists the urge to rant about how interviews that contradict canon and make no damn sense given what's actually in the books are somehow more correct than the books because it came out of the author's mouth*

In this case Gaider's version makes more sense to me and fits the character better, however.  But it's everyone's prerogative to think differently.  And unlike my husband, I don't get riled up over RtO.  I think it very likely that Cailan in the last minutes before the battle had an attack of common sense.

Modifié par Addai67, 30 novembre 2010 - 08:04 .

[Elhanan]

The worst thing I can say about Eamon is that he may be full of sour grapes. He attempts to sway Cailan to consider marriage to an Orlesian while Isolde still lives....

[Addai]

(Husband)

The connotation that I get from the guard is more then just the last few minutes before the battle. The last few minutes idea is a popular player interpretation or theory of what actually happened which harmonizes two very different characterizations. (And harmonization is something I normally believe in.... especially concerning religious texts, the testimony of witnesses and such....)

However that honor guard mentions that the "bravado" was all fake and for the benefit of those around him. And that bravado that you see in game comes a lot earlier than just a few minutes before the battle.

Modifié par Addai67, 30 novembre 2010 - 08:05 .

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Heck we could use JK Rowling.

...*takes deep breathe and resists the urge to rant about how interviews that contradict canon and make no damn sense given what's actually in the books are somehow more correct than the books because it came out of the author's mouth*

In this case Gaider's version makes more sense to me and fits the character better, however.  But it's everyone's prerogative to think differently.  And unlike my husband, I don't get riled up over RtO.  I think it very likely that Cailan in the last minutes before the battle had an attack of common sense.

Yeah I interpret it as adding more holes in the story that don't need to be there. So I just take the VO notes and the game as canon. I'm a large fan of "author is dead."

I'd have to be or I'd have gone insane in the HP fandom.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 novembre 2010 - 08:56 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Well that's great, I thought it has been established what Loghain was thinking at Ostagar, and now apparently it isn't and people decide what they want to be canon. That's just wonderful, we are back at square 1.

[KnightofPhoenix]

klarabella wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Loghain had Eamon poisoned to neutralize him, not kill him.

Where in the game is this even hinted at? The game makes you believe that Eamon is dying. Without Word of God no one would ever get the impression that Eamon was not supposed to die. A desire demon is keeping him alive.

Then why is  it Eamon survived when the desire demon was killed? Have you never wondered about that? I always thought at first that this was a very meeh  convenient. What Gaider said makes more sense. Eamon was never dying and the desire demon was lying to get Connor.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Glaucon wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Well that's great, I thought it has been established what Loghain was thinking at Ostagar, and now apparently it isn't and people decide what they want to be canon. That's just wonderful, we are back at square 1.

All journeys end where they begin.  Such is life?

Indeed.
Except I'll probably not end up right where I started and participate in the millions of debates again.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 novembre 2010 - 12:02 .