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[nos_astra]

Wereparrot wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
You are a strong, charismatic leader, one that at least three nobles have acknowledged as the Teyrn(a) of highever, and where you yourself can call yourself as well.

Indeed. Just because two traitors refuse to acknowledge you does not mean your title is not recognised by others. It's all about support, as I'm forever being told.

Exactly. For me Loghain lacks legitimacy, so does Howe. The moment they are taken care of, Highever belongs to the Couslands.

Modifié par klarabella, 06 décembre 2010 - 09:24 .

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Yeah well I learn more towards the incompetent side. Always have. All that hand wringing *sighs in annoyance*

Hmmmmm...... Even Alistair agrees that she is competent, an excellent politician and a better ruler. Eamon even, for all his idiotic obsession with blood over skill, admits that Anora performed Cailan's duties well and that her people love her. She is smart, determined, cunning and doesn't flinch from the hard decisions. Reminds me of a young Elizabeth I.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Yeah well I learn more towards the incompetent side. Always have. All that hand wringing *sighs in annoyance*

Hmmmmm...... Even Alistair agrees that she is competent, an excellent politician and a better ruler. Eamon even, for all his idiotic obsession with blood over skill, admits that Anora performed Cailan's duties well and that her people love her. She is smart, determined, cunning and doesn't flinch from the hard decisions. Reminds me of a young Elizabeth I.

She's competent when she has nothing threatening her and her power is given to her by someone else.

So no I wouldn't compare her to Elizabeth I.

If she didn't flinch from hard decisions she'd have stopped/killed Loghain.

Then blamed Howe and killed him too.

That...actually would've made her pretty BA.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2010 - 09:37 .

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Yeah well I learn more towards the incompetent side. Always have. All that hand wringing *sighs in annoyance*

Hmmmmm...... Even Alistair agrees that she is competent, an excellent politician and a better ruler. Eamon even, for all his idiotic obsession with blood over skill, admits that Anora performed Cailan's duties well and that her people love her. She is smart, determined, cunning and doesn't flinch from the hard decisions. Reminds me of a young Elizabeth I.

She's competent when she has nothing threatening her.

So no I wouldn't compare her to Elizabeth I.

If she didn't flinch from hard decisions she'd have stopped/killed Loghain.

Her own father? Anyone has a line they will not cross. And Ferelden has been under constant threat since the occupation. Juggling out all the diplomacy with the Bannorn, Orlais etc. is HELL. Hell, even Empress Celene was impressed by Anora. Ruling a country and KEEPING the peace is actually more demanding than fighting wars.

[Ryzaki]

^She's supposed to be the leader of a country. I expect her to place that above her father's life if she feels he's threatening the wellbeing. So no I don't consider her competent.

I expect my leaders to lead no matter what the personal consequences are. If they don't want to pay that price they shouldn't lead.

And while keeping peace may be more demanding the fact is she couldn't keep the peace. She couldn't get the bannorn to follow Loghain. She couldn't stop the civil war for all her political savvy.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2010 - 09:41 .

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

^She's supposed to be the leader of a country. I expect her to place that above her father's life if she feels he's threatening the wellbeing. So no I don't consider her competent.

I expect my leaders to lead no matter what the personal consequences are. If they don't want to pay that price they shouldn't lead.

That just strikes me as utterly ruthless (Leaders should be ruthless but not so utterly) and it reeks more of Henry VIII's bloody regime (Who did murder family members & friends) than Elizabeth's wise restraint. I want my leaders to be human beings, not cold blooded killing machines. Not even much maligned Loghain would go that far.

And blaming her for her father's lack of political finesse is hardly fair.

Modifié par Persephone, 06 décembre 2010 - 09:43 .

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

^She's supposed to be the leader of a country. I expect her to place that above her father's life if she feels he's threatening the wellbeing. So no I don't consider her competent.

I expect my leaders to lead no matter what the personal consequences are. If they don't want to pay that price they shouldn't lead.

That just strikes me as utterly ruthless (Leaders should be ruthless but not so utterly) and it reeks more of Henry VIII's bloody regime (Who did murder family members & friends) than Elizabeth's wise restraint. I want my leaders to be human beings, not cold blooded killing machines. Not even much maligned Loghain would go that far.

I want them to be leaders but I suppose we have different views that won't be reconciled on that my views on a leader means to me Anora is extremely incompetent. She did nothing at ll about her title being taken ther than try to manipuate the Warden at the last minute instead of her father and Howe who had been threatening her position in the first place.

I Ruthless females. Anora's not ruthless. Just irritating.

Edit: Yes it is. The Civil War only happened because the bannorn idn't buy Loghain's BS. She should've been the one to convince them. Instead she hangwrings and looks like a kicked puppy at the landsmeet. Great leadership there.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2010 - 09:46 .

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

^She's supposed to be the leader of a country. I expect her to place that above her father's life if she feels he's threatening the wellbeing. So no I don't consider her competent.

I expect my leaders to lead no matter what the personal consequences are. If they don't want to pay that price they shouldn't lead.

That just strikes me as utterly ruthless (Leaders should be ruthless but not so utterly) and it reeks more of Henry VIII's bloody regime (Who did murder family members & friends) than Elizabeth's wise restraint. I want my leaders to be human beings, not cold blooded killing machines. Not even much maligned Loghain would go that far.

I want them to be leaders but I suppose we have different views that won't be reconciled on that my views on a leader means to me Anora is extremely incompetent. She did nothing at ll about her title being taken ther than try to manipuate the Warden at the last minute instead of her father and Howe who had been threatening her position in the first place.

I Ruthless females. Anora's not ruthless. Just irritating.

I suppose that our views are too different, yup. Henry VIII = A monster IMO Elizabeth I, who despised war and violence and preferred cunning, diplomacy and manipulation = Genius IMO 

[Sarah1281]

Edit: Yes it is. The Civil War only happened because the bannorn idn't buy Loghain's BS. She should've been the one to convince them. Instead she hangwrings and looks like a kicked puppy at the landsmeet. Great leadership there.

Yes it would have. The bannorn was just itching for a fight, all sorts of old grudges were flaring up, these people have fought over a tree before, no one thought it was a Blight so that wouldn't stop them, and there was no heir.

[Ryzaki]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Edit: Yes it is. The Civil War only happened because the bannorn idn't buy Loghain's BS. She should've been the one to convince them. Instead she hangwrings and looks like a kicked puppy at the landsmeet. Great leadership there.

Yes it would have. The bannorn was just itching for a fight, all sorts of old grudges were flaring up, these people have fought over a tree before, no one thought it was a Blight so that wouldn't stop them, and there was no heir.

Enough for a civil war? 

Is there any proof of this? 

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

^She's supposed to be the leader of a country. I expect her to place that above her father's life if she feels he's threatening the wellbeing. So no I don't consider her competent.

I expect my leaders to lead no matter what the personal consequences are. If they don't want to pay that price they shouldn't lead.

That just strikes me as utterly ruthless (Leaders should be ruthless but not so utterly) and it reeks more of Henry VIII's bloody regime (Who did murder family members & friends) than Elizabeth's wise restraint. I want my leaders to be human beings, not cold blooded killing machines. Not even much maligned Loghain would go that far.

Edit: Yes it is. The Civil War only happened because the bannorn idn't buy Loghain's BS. She should've been the one to convince them. Instead she hangwrings and looks like a kicked puppy at the landsmeet. Great leadership there.

Which Landsmeet? And I don't care about the Bannorn, they fight over bloody trees, IMO they were just using Ostagar as a lame excuse to start yet another war to be independant.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

^She's supposed to be the leader of a country. I expect her to place that above her father's life if she feels he's threatening the wellbeing. So no I don't consider her competent.

I expect my leaders to lead no matter what the personal consequences are. If they don't want to pay that price they shouldn't lead.

That just strikes me as utterly ruthless (Leaders should be ruthless but not so utterly) and it reeks more of Henry VIII's bloody regime (Who did murder family members & friends) than Elizabeth's wise restraint. I want my leaders to be human beings, not cold blooded killing machines. Not even much maligned Loghain would go that far.

I want them to be leaders but I suppose we have different views that won't be reconciled on that my views on a leader means to me Anora is extremely incompetent. She did nothing at ll about her title being taken ther than try to manipuate the Warden at the last minute instead of her father and Howe who had been threatening her position in the first place.

I Ruthless females. Anora's not ruthless. Just irritating.

I suppose that our views are too different, yup. Henry VIII = A monster IMO Elizabeth I, who despised war and violence and preferred cunning, diplomacy and manipulation = Genius IMO 

I always so Henry VIII as well...awesome.

Elizabeth I to me was pretty okay I just don't find her overly interesting. Bloody Mary on the other hand I liked if only due to her sheer ability to execute.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Edit: Yes it is. The Civil War only happened because the bannorn idn't buy Loghain's BS. She should've been the one to convince them. Instead she hangwrings and looks like a kicked puppy at the landsmeet. Great leadership there.

Yes it would have. The bannorn was just itching for a fight, all sorts of old grudges were flaring up, these people have fought over a tree before, no one thought it was a Blight so that wouldn't stop them, and there was no heir.

Enough for a civil war? 

Is there any proof of this? 

They remain troublemakers in Awakening as well as Witch Hunt. With Loghain alive or dead making no difference.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

^She's supposed to be the leader of a country. I expect her to place that above her father's life if she feels he's threatening the wellbeing. So no I don't consider her competent.

I expect my leaders to lead no matter what the personal consequences are. If they don't want to pay that price they shouldn't lead.

That just strikes me as utterly ruthless (Leaders should be ruthless but not so utterly) and it reeks more of Henry VIII's bloody regime (Who did murder family members & friends) than Elizabeth's wise restraint. I want my leaders to be human beings, not cold blooded killing machines. Not even much maligned Loghain would go that far.

Edit: Yes it is. The Civil War only happened because the bannorn idn't buy Loghain's BS. She should've been the one to convince them. Instead she hangwrings and looks like a kicked puppy at the landsmeet. Great leadership there.

Which Landsmeet? And I don't care about the Bannorn, they fight over bloody trees, IMO they were just using Ostagar as a lame excuse to start yet another war to be independant.

Whoops. I meant that...meeting thing they had.

Wasn't that a landsmeet? 

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Edit: Yes it is. The Civil War only happened because the bannorn idn't buy Loghain's BS. She should've been the one to convince them. Instead she hangwrings and looks like a kicked puppy at the landsmeet. Great leadership there.

Yes it would have. The bannorn was just itching for a fight, all sorts of old grudges were flaring up, these people have fought over a tree before, no one thought it was a Blight so that wouldn't stop them, and there was no heir.

Enough for a civil war? 

Is there any proof of this? 

They remain troublemakers in Awakening as well as Witch Hunt. With Loghain alive or dead making no difference.

Yeah after the darkspawn are mostly gone. And that could just as easily be because of something else.

And troublemaking is a far cry from a full blown civil war.

[Sarah1281]

But they didn't believe there was a Blight so there was no need for them to hold back.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

^She's supposed to be the leader of a country. I expect her to place that above her father's life if she feels he's threatening the wellbeing. So no I don't consider her competent.

I expect my leaders to lead no matter what the personal consequences are. If they don't want to pay that price they shouldn't lead.

That just strikes me as utterly ruthless (Leaders should be ruthless but not so utterly) and it reeks more of Henry VIII's bloody regime (Who did murder family members & friends) than Elizabeth's wise restraint. I want my leaders to be human beings, not cold blooded killing machines. Not even much maligned Loghain would go that far.

I want them to be leaders but I suppose we have different views that won't be reconciled on that my views on a leader means to me Anora is extremely incompetent. She did nothing at ll about her title being taken ther than try to manipuate the Warden at the last minute instead of her father and Howe who had been threatening her position in the first place.

I Ruthless females. Anora's not ruthless. Just irritating.

I suppose that our views are too different, yup. Henry VIII = A monster IMO Elizabeth I, who despised war and violence and preferred cunning, diplomacy and manipulation = Genius IMO 

I always so Henry VIII as well...awesome.

Elizabeth I to me was pretty okay I just don't find her overly interesting. Bloody Mary on the other hand I liked if only due to her sheer ability to execute.

Mary I. was a seriously messed up psychopath. I have no respect for rulers who execute old men and pregnant women. She bankrupted her country, lost Calais and was an awful ruler. Her infatutation with her husband Philipp II. was pathetic, given that he despised her. Thank the Maker for Elizabeth and Anne Boleyn for giving birth to her. Take that, Henry! Your male heir died at 16 and your much maligned daughter became England's greatest monarch.

Modifié par Persephone, 06 décembre 2010 - 09:55 .

[Ryzaki]

Sarah1281 wrote...

But they didn't believe there was a Blight so there was no need for them to hold back.

Other than the fact that several lands were being overrun by Darkspawn? 

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Edit: Yes it is. The Civil War only happened because the bannorn idn't buy Loghain's BS. She should've been the one to convince them. Instead she hangwrings and looks like a kicked puppy at the landsmeet. Great leadership there.

Yes it would have. The bannorn was just itching for a fight, all sorts of old grudges were flaring up, these people have fought over a tree before, no one thought it was a Blight so that wouldn't stop them, and there was no heir.

Enough for a civil war? 

Is there any proof of this? 

They remain troublemakers in Awakening as well as Witch Hunt. With Loghain alive or dead making no difference.

Yeah after the darkspawn are mostly gone. And that could just as easily be because of something else.

And troublemaking is a far cry from a full blown civil war.

There are major problems brewing in the bannorn. Always were. Denerim is losing much power by the time Witch Hunt begins. There will be major problems with them in DA2, I fear.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

^She's supposed to be the leader of a country. I expect her to place that above her father's life if she feels he's threatening the wellbeing. So no I don't consider her competent.

I expect my leaders to lead no matter what the personal consequences are. If they don't want to pay that price they shouldn't lead.

That just strikes me as utterly ruthless (Leaders should be ruthless but not so utterly) and it reeks more of Henry VIII's bloody regime (Who did murder family members & friends) than Elizabeth's wise restraint. I want my leaders to be human beings, not cold blooded killing machines. Not even much maligned Loghain would go that far.

I want them to be leaders but I suppose we have different views that won't be reconciled on that my views on a leader means to me Anora is extremely incompetent. She did nothing at ll about her title being taken ther than try to manipuate the Warden at the last minute instead of her father and Howe who had been threatening her position in the first place.

I Ruthless females. Anora's not ruthless. Just irritating.

I suppose that our views are too different, yup. Henry VIII = A monster IMO Elizabeth I, who despised war and violence and preferred cunning, diplomacy and manipulation = Genius IMO 

I always so Henry VIII as well...awesome.

Elizabeth I to me was pretty okay I just don't find her overly interesting. Bloody Mary on the other hand I liked if only due to her sheer ability to execute.

Mary I. was a seriously messed up psychopath. I have no respect for rulers who execute old men and pregnant women. She bankrupted her country, lost Orlais and was an awful ruler. Her infatutation with her husband Philipp II. was pathetic, given that he despised her. Thank the Maker for Elizabeth and Anne Boleyn for giving birth to her. Take that, Henry! Your male heir died at 16 and your much maligned daughter became England's greatest monarch.

Plenty of rulers have executed old men and preganant woman and more don't bother to defend them. Lost Orlais? That's a country? 

Though I lol'd at him hating her.

She's still his blood though. Plus Henry gave England a much more vibrant and interesting story to me.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

But they didn't believe there was a Blight so there was no need for them to hold back.

Other than the fact that several lands were being overrun by Darkspawn? 

Not by the time Loghain returned from Ostagar. Only much later. When the civil war is already in full swing.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Edit: Yes it is. The Civil War only happened because the bannorn idn't buy Loghain's BS. She should've been the one to convince them. Instead she hangwrings and looks like a kicked puppy at the landsmeet. Great leadership there.

Yes it would have. The bannorn was just itching for a fight, all sorts of old grudges were flaring up, these people have fought over a tree before, no one thought it was a Blight so that wouldn't stop them, and there was no heir.

Enough for a civil war? 

Is there any proof of this? 

They remain troublemakers in Awakening as well as Witch Hunt. With Loghain alive or dead making no difference.

Yeah after the darkspawn are mostly gone. And that could just as easily be because of something else.

And troublemaking is a far cry from a full blown civil war.

There are major problems brewing in the bannorn. Always were. Denerim is losing much power by the time Witch Hunt begins. There will be major problems with them in DA2, I fear.

And once again that's after DAO is over.

Was there a mention of this major probems brewing in DAO? Before endgame? 

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

But they didn't believe there was a Blight so there was no need for them to hold back.

Other than the fact that several lands were being overrun by Darkspawn? 

Not by the time Loghain returned from Ostagar. Only much later. When the civil war is already in full swing.

Loghain returns from Ostagar after everyone else got overwheled by Darkspawn who then travel through Lothering. (and his is why I hate DAO timeline)I have little doubt Lothering was destroyed extremely soon afterwards. Seeing as everyone knows what happened at Ostagar one would think the Bannorn would worry somewhat about that impending horde.

They did call it a horde.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

^She's supposed to be the leader of a country. I expect her to place that above her father's life if she feels he's threatening the wellbeing. So no I don't consider her competent.

I expect my leaders to lead no matter what the personal consequences are. If they don't want to pay that price they shouldn't lead.

That just strikes me as utterly ruthless (Leaders should be ruthless but not so utterly) and it reeks more of Henry VIII's bloody regime (Who did murder family members & friends) than Elizabeth's wise restraint. I want my leaders to be human beings, not cold blooded killing machines. Not even much maligned Loghain would go that far.

I want them to be leaders but I suppose we have different views that won't be reconciled on that my views on a leader means to me Anora is extremely incompetent. She did nothing at ll about her title being taken ther than try to manipuate the Warden at the last minute instead of her father and Howe who had been threatening her position in the first place.

I Ruthless females. Anora's not ruthless. Just irritating.

I suppose that our views are too different, yup. Henry VIII = A monster IMO Elizabeth I, who despised war and violence and preferred cunning, diplomacy and manipulation = Genius IMO 

I always so Henry VIII as well...awesome.

Elizabeth I to me was pretty okay I just don't find her overly interesting. Bloody Mary on the other hand I liked if only due to her sheer ability to execute.

Mary I. was a seriously messed up psychopath. I have no respect for rulers who execute old men and pregnant women. She bankrupted her country, lost Orlais and was an awful ruler. Her infatutation with her husband Philipp II. was pathetic, given that he despised her. Thank the Maker for Elizabeth and Anne Boleyn for giving birth to her. Take that, Henry! Your male heir died at 16 and your much maligned daughter became England's greatest monarch.

Plenty of rulers have executed old men and preganant woman and more don't bother to defend them. Lost Orlais? That's a country? 

Though I lol'd at him hating her.

She's still his blood though. Plus Henry gave England a much more vibrant and interesting story to me.

Edited it out, I was referring to Calais. There is no political or moral defense for the Marian persecution. None.

Philipp II hated her. Henry VIII was mostly annoyed by her.

Elizabeth's Golden Age is as vibrant as it gets. I fail to see the allure of a wife murdering sociopath.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Edit: Yes it is. The Civil War only happened because the bannorn idn't buy Loghain's BS. She should've been the one to convince them. Instead she hangwrings and looks like a kicked puppy at the landsmeet. Great leadership there.

Yes it would have. The bannorn was just itching for a fight, all sorts of old grudges were flaring up, these people have fought over a tree before, no one thought it was a Blight so that wouldn't stop them, and there was no heir.

Enough for a civil war? 

Is there any proof of this? 

They remain troublemakers in Awakening as well as Witch Hunt. With Loghain alive or dead making no difference.

Yeah after the darkspawn are mostly gone. And that could just as easily be because of something else.

And troublemaking is a far cry from a full blown civil war.

There are major problems brewing in the bannorn. Always were. Denerim is losing much power by the time Witch Hunt begins. There will be major problems with them in DA2, I fear.

And once again that's after DAO is over.

Was there a mention of this major probems brewing in DAO? Before endgame? 

To me it's adding two & two. They fought over a bloody tree, after all.