969 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

They are both masterful liars & manipulators. From a RPG viewpoint, I don't believe anything they say at that point.

While saving the other half. He couldn't have saved Cailan or Duncan anyway due to the delayed signal. A few seconds after he turns away, they both die. Had he charged on horses, he would not have reached them in time. The Warden looting everything did it!!! (Just kidding, but you know what I mean)

Yeah but why bother with that lie? If it wasn't true we would've found out with news of the battle being won or Loghain being dead.

Nope. But he would've honored his oath. He wouldn't have succeed but he would've tried. He didn't even do that much.

The Warden Sue sucked all the brains out of Fereldan. That's why everyone so dumb! It all makes sense now!

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Wereparrot wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Anora has a stronger claim than anyone else, even though she wasn't heriditary.

Having a stronger claim to the throne but not actually being an heir does not make someone else putting someone else up for the throne treason.

Anora is already queen; she does not need to be heir.

I'm sorry, I don't think this is the case.  Cailan would have had to claim her as his heir, so what stopped him from doing so before he went to war?   Henry the Eighth had to do the same thing.  He still choose Mary as his Heir didn't he? Until the landsmeet agrees to her rule which she can't rule until they do vote her in as queen.  Technically, Anora is the dowager Queen and has no right to rule.  She is Cailan's widow and nothing more.  The Cousland's and Alistair have more claim than Anora and Loghain.

Even at the start of the Human Noble playthrough you have more right to the throne than Alistair and Anora.  The codex and the open cinematic scene on the Cousland's storyline clearly state that your family is second in line to the throne.  Therefore, I conclude that Anora was out of the picture once Cailan died.  The fight should have been between the HN and Alistair from my way of thinking.   As far as I'm concerned why didn't Eamon make this point.  I feel that Loghain abandoned Cailan to make sure his daughter stayed in power with him as regent and general.  If you play other origins you don't know this option.  It's been so long since I've played any of the other origins...doesn't everyone pick up a codex on the Couslands?   Since the game tells everyone this, the Couslands were all murdered to prevent this claim.  If you're playing as Cousland I could never figure out why this option was never allowed.  The game also implies that Anora was not pregnant at the landsmeet either, so there was no way she had Cailan's heir in her womb.  It takes nearly a year from Ostagar to the Landsmeet.  

For the arguments that Loghain didn't know or understand what the roles of Grey Wardens are within society is very lame.  Cailan could have requested wardens from Trevinter, The Anderfels, Free Marches, and Antiva as well.  Orlai was just closer.  Most every living soul in Thedas knows and understands what the purpose of a Grey Warden is.  So for Loghain to claim they were going to allow Orlai to overtake Ferelden is a bunch of bull.

Also, the game also mentions that King Cailan had won battles on previous nights before Loghain turned and ran.  So what made Loghain change his mind on that one night?   Eamon was poisoned before Ostagar from my point of view not after.  It was all in the works before Ostagar.  I think it was Anora all along and she used her father,  that Eamon was putting pressure on Cailan to set her aside and she knew it.   

I think Eamon to some degree can be out for his own interest.  When playing the HNF why does Eamon stay on as Chancellor if you choose the option to rule beside Alistair or Anora and you choose a different boon?  That doesn't make sense for Eamon to stay with you ruling beside the King or Queen.

[Sarah1281]

The codex and the open cinematic scene on the Cousland's storyline clearly state that your family is second in line to the throne.

It doesn't say that. It says "Today, Highever is one of only two remaining teyrnirs, making the Cousland family second in rank only to the king." This does not make you second-in-line for the throne. This makes you the second most powerful noble family. Had your family not been wiped out, your teynir occupied, and you personally have no allies because everyone is lined up behind Eamon/Alistair or Anora then the Couslands taking over after the Theirins died out would be a viable OPTION.

Edit: Also, this.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 07 décembre 2010 - 04:48 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Sarah1281 wrote...

The codex and the open cinematic scene on the Cousland's storyline clearly state that your family is second in line to the throne.

It doesn't say that. It says "Today, Highever is one of only two remaining teyrnirs, making the Cousland family second in rank only to the king." This does not make you second-in-line for the throne. This makes you the second most powerful noble family. Had your family not been wiped out, your teynir occupied, and you personally have no allies because everyone is lined up behind Eamon/Alistair or Anora then the Couslands taking over after the Theirins died out would be a viable OPTION.

Second in rank is the same as second in line to the King, means the same thing.   Even the codex on Gwaren says it's the third ruling Teynir with Highever as second under the king.  Therefore Loghain and Anora had no claim on the throne - their teynir was classified as being third to the King and Anora would have know this.  Either way Anora had no right to rule she could only continue to rule as her son/daughter's regent.   The only way was Cedric and Loghain's position for her continued rule, they put her forth just as Eamon did Alistair.

The game never gave us the option to make our own claim when playing as a Cousland.  I never did understand why the warden had to decide the ruler other than it's a video game.   The landsmeet never made sense in a way since most of the discussion was to support the wardens to end the blight.   Alistair actually got that right.  The landsmeet voted to support the Wardens and pull Loghain as General and commander of the army.  Until Eamon asks you to decide who the ruler of Ferelden is going to be.  You have to decide, which didn't make any sense.  The game also never makes clear if your playing another origin if Fergus Cousland survives, it appears he only survives if playing a Cousland warden.

Bann Alfstanna clearly states to the Cousland warden that they would have the support  Waking Sea to recover Highever.  I'd also assume you'd have Arl Eamon's support, Tegan's support, the support of the bann during whose child was kidnapped during the trail of the crows quest and you'd most certainly have the support of the Dragon Peak Bannorn.  Plus, all of the other banns that went against Loghain who did survive.  Eddlebrook and another one which comes up in DAA court day.   To say the Couslands wouldn't have had support is not thinking it through.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 07 décembre 2010 - 05:23 .

[Sarah1281]

Second in rank is the same as second in line to the King, means the same thing.

No, no it does not. It means that if you ignored the king, the Teyrn of Highever would have more power than anyone. That does not mean that the line of succession goes King, anyone not a bastard related to the king, really powerful noble family. The line of succession in Ferelden at the time of Cailan's death appeared to be Cailan and then Cailan's nonexistent children.



You can say how if Howe hadn't destroyed the Couslands Bryce would easily have been able to take the throne if you want but Cailan did not name him his heir. Cailan did not name you his heir. Cailan did not name ANYONE his heir so there is no next-in-line for the throne. That's kind of why there was a civil war going on and why you can challenge Anora's bid for the throne with one of Alistair's. You might have the magical Cousland bloodline but you have no political support. Maybe you feel that you should but the nobles would all rather line up behind what they see as proven competency (Anora) or a better bloodline than yours (Alistair).

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Then what is the point of mentioning that Gwaren is third in ruling to the king which the codex on Gwaren clearly states.  So in case a ruling monarch dies without issue which is what happened with Cailan, then the rank of the Teynir's have some meaning.  Highever is second and Gwaren is third according to all information.  If this isn't the case the what is the point of rank?   Cailan also needed to make Anora his Heir before he went to war and he also didn't do this.  Why not? 

Ferelden without a King/Queen or bloodline monarch seems to suggest they would have voted which is what happened.  Thus the fight really comes down to the Cousland and Alstair with Anora being the third option.  Why does Eamon never make this case with you being alive and playing Warden Cousland?

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 07 décembre 2010 - 05:33 .

[Sarah1281]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Then what is the point of mentioning that Gwaren is third in ruling to the king which the codex on Gwaren clearly states.

This is the Gwaren codex entry according to DA wiki: 

The human settlement of Gwaren is built directly on top of a dwarven outpost by the same name. Prior to the First Blight, in a time when Ferelden was not yet a nation and was still carved up into barbarian tribes, the outpost served as a source of salt and a means by which the dwarves could reach the sea-lanes of the Amaranthine Ocean. Unwilling to come to the surface, the dwarves made an agreement with the local teyrn to build a port and relied on the humans to ferry goods between the ships and the underground outpost. This made Gwaren a prosperous place and extraordinarily wealthy for a time.

When, in the Divine Age, the dwarven kingdoms fell to the darkspawn and the Deep Roads were closed off, so too did the dwarves disappear from Gwaren. The human settlement, the envy of surrounding barbarian tribes, was assaulted and sacked, its wealth stolen.

The town remained, however, and despite its remote location continued to find value as a source of fish and timber. As the first settlement liberated by King Maric and Loghain during the Fereldan Rebellion, Gwaren was eventually granted to Loghain when he became teyrn in 9:11 Dragon.

--From [/i]Ferelden: Folklore and History, by Sister Petrine, Chantry scholar

I do not see anything saying Gwaren is third. In fact, given that the Highever entry says "Today, Highever is one of only two remaining teyrnirs, making the Cousland family second in rank only to the king" I think we can safely assume that Gwaren being the other remaining teynir ALSO makes the Mac Tir family second in rank only to the king.

It's really not all that strange. The nobility is obviously higher than the common people. The lowest noble is a Bann. Next is Arl. Finally, there are two Teyrns who hold more power than the Arls and Banns but less than the King. That's all that line in the Highever codex entry says.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

My CE states that Highever is ranked as second and my game plays in the opening scene that Highever and my family are second after the king with Gwaren third. All I can say maybe it's according to which edition that people have.

[LupusYondergirl]

I think you may be remembering incorrectly.
The voiceover of the human noble origin, copied directly from the toolset:

For generations, your family, the Couslands, has stewarded the lands of Highever, earning the loyalty of your people with justice and temperance. When your country was occupied by the Orlesian Empire, your father and grandfather served the embattled kings of your land. Today, your elder brother takes up House Cousland's banner in service to the Crown--not against the men of Orlais, but against the bestial darkspawn rising in the south.

The codex, again from the toolset

On the Teyrnir of Highever.
Castle Highever has stood since the Divine Age, when it was not an independent bannorn, but merely an outpost of the growing Bannorn of Amaranthine, in the days before Amaranthine became an arling itself. The outpost of Highever was originally held by the Elstan family, cousins of the Howes. In the Age of Towers, however, Bann Conobar Elstan was murdered by his wife, Flemeth, thus ending the bloodline. Conobar's captain of the guard, Sarim Cousland, took the lands and title.

The Couslands declared their independence from Amaranthine, starting a war that lasted 30 years. When the dust settled, Highever was on its own, and in possession of half the land that had once been southwestern Amaranthine.

Highever became a teyrnir during the Black Age, when Haelia Cousland gathered the lords together under her banner to drive the werewolves out of their lands, earning herself the title of teyrna almost as an afterthought.

Today, Highever is one of only two remaining teyrnirs, making the Cousland family second in rank only to the king.

And after the origin is over the following is added

The Cousland family, however, was all but wiped out in an unexpected attack by Arl Howe of Amaranthine, and the fate of the teyrnir is now in question. Arl Howe of Amaranthine was named the new Teyrn of Highever under somewhat questionable circumstances, and the fate of the Cousland family is now uncertain.

The key line is here:
Today, Highever is one of only two remaining teyrnirs, making the Cousland family second in rank only to the king.
It is not the Cousland name that makes them second to the king. It's that they rule a teyrnir. Loghain Mac Tir also rules a teyrnir, and is thus also second in rank to the king.

Don't think of it as a straight line. Think of it as a pyramid. Teyrns are equal, and second to the king. Below them are all the arls and arlessas- also equal to each other. The banns, who are even more numerous, below them.

Modifié par LupusYondergirl, 07 décembre 2010 - 05:50 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Sarah1281 wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Then what is the point of mentioning that Gwaren is third in ruling to the king which the codex on Gwaren clearly states.

This is the Gwaren codex entry according to DA wiki: 

The human settlement of Gwaren is built directly on top of a dwarven outpost by the same name. Prior to the First Blight, in a time when Ferelden was not yet a nation and was still carved up into barbarian tribes, the outpost served as a source of salt and a means by which the dwarves could reach the sea-lanes of the Amaranthine Ocean. Unwilling to come to the surface, the dwarves made an agreement with the local teyrn to build a port and relied on the humans to ferry goods between the ships and the underground outpost. This made Gwaren a prosperous place and extraordinarily wealthy for a time.

When, in the Divine Age, the dwarven kingdoms fell to the darkspawn and the Deep Roads were closed off, so too did the dwarves disappear from Gwaren. The human settlement, the envy of surrounding barbarian tribes, was assaulted and sacked, its wealth stolen.

The town remained, however, and despite its remote location continued to find value as a source of fish and timber. As the first settlement liberated by King Maric and Loghain during the Fereldan Rebellion, Gwaren was eventually granted to Loghain when he became teyrn in 9:11 Dragon.

--From [/i]Ferelden: Folklore and History, by Sister Petrine, Chantry scholar

I do not see anything saying Gwaren is third. In fact, given that the Highever entry says "Today, Highever is one of only two remaining teyrnirs, making the Cousland family second in rank only to the king" I think we can safely assume that Gwaren being the other remaining teynir ALSO makes the Mac Tir family second in rank only to the king.

It's really not all that strange. The nobility is obviously higher than the common people. The lowest noble is a Bann. Next is Arl. Finally, there are two Teyrns who hold more power than the Arls and Banns but less than the King. That's all that line in the Highever codex entry says.

The codex for Highever and all information on Highever and that used by you for your postion states second in rank to the King, which places Highever above Gwaren in rank.  You can continue to argue that rank doesn't apply but in any organization it does apply.  Ask any military personnel.  The purpose of the Teynir is to train soldiers for the King.  Which still places Highever as second in rank to the King and not Gwaren which still positions Anora and Loghain third in line.  If the warden wins the landsmeet you thus become the highest military ranked person in the room once Loghain is defeated, and this is why Eamon makes you decide the ruling vote.  If you play as a Cousland this does allow you the right to rule over Alistair/Anora.  Alistair gave his position away when he made you leader in a sense.  That is why Morrigan told him he was an idiot.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 07 décembre 2010 - 06:03 .

[LupusYondergirl]

Why do you assume only one family can be second in rank to the king?

It isn't that no one else understands rank, it's that you assume one person of identical title and rank to another is somehow still superior.

ALL Teyrns are second in rank to the king.

Yes, the Cousland family is right behind the royal family in terms of rank and power. So are the MacTirs

.

[Addai]

I agree Highever is more important politically, because Gwaren is little more than a rural backwater. However that has nothing to do with the succession. The line of succession doesn't work that way in Ferelden. Gwaren doesn't answer to Highever. Both of them answer to the king, and he to them in a way, as he does to the banns.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

Why do you assume only one family can be second in rank to the king?
It isn't that no one else understands rank, it's that you assume one person of identical title and rank to another is somehow still superior.
ALL Teyrns are second in rank to the king.
Yes, the Cousland family is right behind the royal family in terms of rank and power. So are the MacTirs
.

The codex entry for Highever says it's second ranked.  If Highever is second ranked than Gwaren can't be second or equal to Highever according to the codex entry for Highever.  Thus Gwaren becomes third.  If the codex entry for Highever said just a Teynir then yes you could include Gwaren also being second; but it doesn't.  It makes Highever second in command next to the King.  Which would give the bannorn the option of making Bryce Cousland King instead of Anora or Loghain as her regent.  Since Bryce Cousland is dead then it's up to the warden on who rules regardless of your origin.  If you play as a Cousland, you have just as much right to the throne as Alistair, or Anora.  Why doesn't Eamon point this out if you play a Cousland Warden?  Regardless if you play as a male/female Cousland. 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 07 décembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[Addai]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

LupusYondergirl wrote...

Why do you assume only one family can be second in rank to the king?
It isn't that no one else understands rank, it's that you assume one person of identical title and rank to another is somehow still superior.
ALL Teyrns are second in rank to the king.
Yes, the Cousland family is right behind the royal family in terms of rank and power. So are the MacTirs
.

The codex entry for Highever says it's second ranked.  If Highever is second ranked than Gwaren can't be second or equal to Highever according to the codex entry for Highever.  Thus Gwaren becomes third.  If the codex entry for Highever said just a Teynir then yes you could include Gwaren also being second; but it doesn't.  It makes Highever second in command next to the King.  Which would give the bannorn the option of making Bryce Cousland King instead of Anora or Loghain as her regent.  Since Bryce Cousland is dead then it's up to the warden on who rules regardless of your origin.  If you play as a Cousland, you have just as much right to the throne as Alistair, or Anora.  Why doesn't Eamon point this out if you play a Cousland Warden?  Regardless if you play as a male/female Cousland. 

In absence of a Theirin heir, it's going to be a free for all.  Yes, the Couslands will have a strong bid based on history and political clout, but so will the Guerrins and others including now any surviving Mac Tirs.  It's why Eamon says that a Theirin heir is so important.  The reason that Bryce was put forward (by a few people) for king was that he was a war hero and beloved, in addition to the Couslands' prestige.

Second in importance has little meaning in the Fereldan system which is not autocratic like Orlais.  The Bannorn all think they are second, for instance.

[Sarah1281]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

LupusYondergirl wrote...

Why do you assume only one family can be second in rank to the king?
It isn't that no one else understands rank, it's that you assume one person of identical title and rank to another is somehow still superior.
ALL Teyrns are second in rank to the king.
Yes, the Cousland family is right behind the royal family in terms of rank and power. So are the MacTirs
.

The codex entry for Highever says it's second ranked.  If Highever is second ranked than Gwaren can't be second or equal to Highever according to the codex entry for Highever.  Thus Gwaren becomes third.  If the codex entry for Highever said just a Teynir then yes you could include Gwaren also being second; but it doesn't.  It makes Highever second in command next to the King.  Which would give the bannorn the option of making Bryce Cousland King instead of Anora or Loghain as her regent.  Since Bryce Cousland is dead then it's up to the warden on who rules regardless of your origin.  If you play as a Cousland, you have just as much right to the throne as Alistair, or Anora.  Why doesn't Eamon point this out if you play a Cousland Warden?  Regardless if you play as a male/female Cousland. 

But it does say just th at! Think about it: if the fact that it is Highever that makes it second then why in the codex entry ("Today, Highever is one of only two remaining teyrnirs, making the Cousland family second in rank only to the king") does it say that the fact it is one of two remaining teynirs is what makes it second in rank? If we were talking about succession then obviously Bryce and Anora/Loghain couldn't both be second but we're not. This is rank. A Teyrn has a certain rank, above an Arl and below a King. They are BOTH TEYRNS.

The Bannorn can make Habren Bryland (you may remember her as the ****y noble in the Denerim Marketplace) Queen if they so chose. Maric had an heir: Cailan. Despite that, some (we don't know how many) wanted Bryce instead because Cailan is an idiot young and inexperienced. Why Bryce instead of Anora? She is equally inexperienced. Why Bryce instead of Loghain? Loghain's not really a very good politician.

"If you play as a Cousland, you have just as much right to the throne as Alistair, or Anora"...If by 'just as much right' you mean 'none at all' then you're right. Alistair, Anora, and you all have the same right to the throne which is no right. No one has any right to the throne because Cailan had no heir and there is no line of succession. Since there is no heir, the Bannorn has to just pick someone. Anora has a lot of supporters and roughly half of the Landsmeet is on her side. Eamon rallied all the anti-Loghain people to him and he supports Alistair. They still have the same no right to it that you do, but they have the politics to back them up and you don't.

It really doesn't matter if you feel you should, the fact remains that no one really wants you on the throne no matter how much they might have loved Bryce.

Finally...as to why Eamon didn't raise the question of you taking the throne? I would have thought that was obvious. He does not want you on the throne except as a consort to Alistair. If you are a male, he doesn't want you on the throne at all as you could only be a consort to Anora which means Alistair isn't going to be king. Since you have no right to the throne, he's not going to say anything. If you did have a right to the throne, he wouldn't bring it up as that would hurt his plans to put a Theirin on the throne.

[Zjarcal]

Glaucon wrote...

Massman123 wrote...

IMO Eamon is exonerated by the mere fact that he will stand alongside your warden in armed combat against any odds at the landsmeet if loghain and whatever allies you haven't been able to turn to your cause fight you. Hell in some situations its just your squad, Eamon and yourself against all of those goons. Any man who will fight in such a situation is an honorable man

Or a desperate one.

Yeah, that was more an act of survival rather than honor. While I find it a bit hypocritical of Eamon to not accept the Landsmeet's decision (considering how he was the one calling for it), I certainly don't blame him for choosing to "not go down without a fight".

But like you said, it was an act of desperation, not so much about honor.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Why Bryce instead of Loghain? Loghain's not really a very good politician. 

I think Loghain was not brought forth as a candidate, because it would have been kind of stupid.
Everyone knows that Anora is being groomed to Cailan and is being trained in the art of ruling. It's evident that Loghain doesn't want to throne for himself, but wants Cailan and Anora. So I can't see anyone seriously proposing that Loghain becomes king by opposing his best friend's son and his own daughter, he'd probably slap them with just a glare.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 décembre 2010 - 06:47 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Addai67 wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

LupusYondergirl wrote...

Why do you assume only one family can be second in rank to the king?
It isn't that no one else understands rank, it's that you assume one person of identical title and rank to another is somehow still superior.
ALL Teyrns are second in rank to the king.
Yes, the Cousland family is right behind the royal family in terms of rank and power. So are the MacTirs
.

The codex entry for Highever says it's second ranked.  If Highever is second ranked than Gwaren can't be second or equal to Highever according to the codex entry for Highever.  Thus Gwaren becomes third.  If the codex entry for Highever said just a Teynir then yes you could include Gwaren also being second; but it doesn't.  It makes Highever second in command next to the King.  Which would give the bannorn the option of making Bryce Cousland King instead of Anora or Loghain as her regent.  Since Bryce Cousland is dead then it's up to the warden on who rules regardless of your origin.  If you play as a Cousland, you have just as much right to the throne as Alistair, or Anora.  Why doesn't Eamon point this out if you play a Cousland Warden?  Regardless if you play as a male/female Cousland. 

In absence of a Theirin heir, it's going to be a free for all.  Yes, the Couslands will have a strong bid based on history and political clout, but so will the Guerrins and others including now any surviving Mac Tirs.  It's why Eamon says that a Theirin heir is so important.  The reason that Bryce was put forward (by a few people) for king was that he was a war hero and beloved, in addition to the Couslands' prestige.

Second in importance has little meaning in the Fereldan system which is not autocratic like Orlais.  The Bannorn all think they are second, for instance.

I disagree with the absence of a Theirin heir.  Highever is ranked second for a reason.  I would think it more with the case of a monarch dying without issue which is what happened then just calling for troops for the King.  All of Ferelden seems to be in line with this since they clearly allowed Highever being ranked as second. 

The rank of nobility is as follows:  Teynirs, Arls, Banns, Knights, and then Free Holders.  The merchant guild fits int here somewhere as well. 

Since Cailan died without issue it does come down to Alistair and The Cousland Warden if playing one.  Anora should never have been an option as ruler with Highever ranked second is all that I'm saying.  The only way that a warden outside of the Human Noble gets the option for rule next to the King/Queen is because you become the highest military leader in Ferelden just as Bryce Cousland was.  Thus you have the option to become chancellor and give Eamon the boot.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 07 décembre 2010 - 06:55 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Where did you get the idea that Bryce Cousland was the highest military leader in Ferelden? That has always been Loghain, who was also Maric's chief advisor (chancellor in all but name really).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 décembre 2010 - 06:45 .

[Sarah1281]

So Teyrns are ranked second and yet Anora and her being heir to the teynir of Gwaren and also former Queen Consort mean nothing?

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Where did you get the idea that Bryce Cousland was the highest military leader in Ferelden? That has always been Loghain, who was also Maric's chief advisor (chancellor in all but name really).

From the codex entry on Highever.  Highever is second in rank to the King, which made Bryce Cousland the highest Military officer in Ferelden, not Loghain technically.  Loghain was just the hero of River Dane then raised to a Teynir.  A Teynir's job is to train the troops for the king. Since Loghain was Anora's father Bryce Cousland did take a backset, but technically according to the codex entry, Bryce Cousland was.  This is also why Bryce Cousland could have taken the throne over Anora if he had lived and also over Alistair.  If playing a Cousland Warden you technically can take the throne, the Highever codex gives you this right.

@ Sarah. 

Anora was technically the dowager Queen once Cailan died.  The only way she could rule was for the landsmeet to vote her in since she didn't have any children with Cailan.  She is Cailan's widow and that is all that she is and Loghain's daughter.  Why do you think she asks for the warden's support?  She had to have the warden's support to keep her throne.  Once Bryce Cousland is murdered, and Loghain possibly executed and when you beat Loghain at the landsmeet, then The Warden is the Highest Military Offical in Ferelden.  You've also got the treaties in your back pocket as well.  Loghain doesn't have this.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 07 décembre 2010 - 07:16 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Where did you get the idea that Bryce Cousland was the highest military leader in Ferelden? That has always been Loghain, who was also Maric's chief advisor (chancellor in all but name really).

From the codex entry on Highever.  Highever is second in rank to the King, which made Bryce Cousland the highest Military officer in Ferelden, not Loghain technically.  A Teynir's job is to train the troops for the king. Since Loghain was Anora's father Bryce Cousland did take a backset, but technically according to the codex entry, Bryce Cousland was.  This is also why Bryce Cousland could have taken the throne over Anora if he had lived and also over Alistair. 

I won't re-state what others said, but I think you are mis-interpretting the codex entry.
But I am tired and I don't want to argue it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 décembre 2010 - 07:11 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Where did you get the idea that Bryce Cousland was the highest military leader in Ferelden? That has always been Loghain, who was also Maric's chief advisor (chancellor in all but name really).

From the codex entry on Highever.  Highever is second in rank to the King, which made Bryce Cousland the highest Military officer in Ferelden, not Loghain technically.  A Teynir's job is to train the troops for the king. Since Loghain was Anora's father Bryce Cousland did take a backset, but technically according to the codex entry, Bryce Cousland was.  This is also why Bryce Cousland could have taken the throne over Anora if he had lived and also over Alistair. 

I won't re-state what others said, but I think you are mis-interpretting the codex entry.
But I am tired and I don't want to argue it.

Since we have this codex entry for Highever then what is the purpose of rank and Highever being stated as second?  As for Succession, then it does come down to the Teynirs.  All of you can ignore rank if you want, but the codex entry for Highever is there for a reason.  Do you dispute that the warden becomes the highest military officer in Ferelden once you defeat Loghain?  If you say no you don't dispute this then rank does have meaning in which case you can't ignore the codex entry for Highever to make your argument.