116 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

I simply took advantage of the opportunity as a role playing perspective, and didn't even realize I was supposed to be angry until well after: I gut mugged. My items got stolen while I slept.



Why would I expect to get back everything?



Rebuilding, adapting my new armor inventory was fun, and dare I say even realistic? It's hardly like the game is hurting for equipment to buy and wear.

[Tatinger]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I simply took advantage of the opportunity as a role playing perspective, and didn't even realize I was supposed to be angry until well after: I gut mugged. My items got stolen while I slept.

Why would I expect to get back everything?

Rebuilding, adapting my new armor inventory was fun, and dare I say even realistic? It's hardly like the game is hurting for equipment to buy and wear.

Wow.  That's the excuse you're going to peddle out for them, huh?  Okay.  Now go to Dragon Age Wiki site and spin your tale of excuses/alternative reality for all those listed.  Once you're done with Awakening, hop on over to Origins and tackle that section.  We'll eagerly be awaiting your post(s).

Modifié par Tatinger, 31 décembre 2010 - 07:07 .

[Elhanan]

Tatinger wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I simply took advantage of the opportunity as a role playing perspective, and didn't even realize I was supposed to be angry until well after: I gut mugged. My items got stolen while I slept.

Why would I expect to get back everything?

Rebuilding, adapting my new armor inventory was fun, and dare I say even realistic? It's hardly like the game is hurting for equipment to buy and wear.

Wow.  That's the excuse you're going to peddle out for them, huh?  Okay.  Now go to Dragon Age Wiki site and spin your tale of excuses/alternative reality for all those listed.  Once you're done with Awakening, hop on over to Origins and tackle that section.  We'll eagerly be awaiting your post(s).

Not needed, as others have also posted sim stories. You may simply be late to this issue, as it has been discussed before now.

As for myself, I knew what was coming and made a save. While it may be somewhat disconcerting to be undressed for the next cut-scene, this was hardly worthy of the fuss some have brought to the forums. I save my boycotts for disk wiping bugs like PoR or like event; not for minor inconveniences like this with a known walkaround.

[Tatinger]

Elhanan wrote...

Tatinger wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I simply took advantage of the opportunity as a role playing perspective, and didn't even realize I was supposed to be angry until well after: I gut mugged. My items got stolen while I slept.

Why would I expect to get back everything?

Rebuilding, adapting my new armor inventory was fun, and dare I say even realistic? It's hardly like the game is hurting for equipment to buy and wear.

Wow.  That's the excuse you're going to peddle out for them, huh?  Okay.  Now go to Dragon Age Wiki site and spin your tale of excuses/alternative reality for all those listed.  Once you're done with Awakening, hop on over to Origins and tackle that section.  We'll eagerly be awaiting your post(s).

Not needed, as others have also posted sim stories. You may simply be late to this issue, as it has been discussed before now.

As for myself, I knew what was coming and made a save. While it may be somewhat disconcerting to be undressed for the next cut-scene, this was hardly worthy of the fuss some have brought to the forums. I save my boycotts for disk wiping bugs like PoR or like event; not for minor inconveniences like this with a known walkaround.

Um, maybe you didn't follow the line of logic there, so let me further elucidate the matter.  While the Silverite Mine bug may have an easy walkaround it does not excuse the long litany of bugs further encoded into the game (not every one of which has that easy, but extremely inconvienent, walkaround that you suggest).  The point being: what do you say to the other fifty or so known examples that have been catalogued and still haven't been addressed?  The fact is, if apologists continue to defend Bioware for these defects then, yes, an explanation is needed.  Simply saying "oh, well, you take your chances when you purchase a game" is not an excuse as other game companies go to great pains to correct these kind of issues and make damn sure that they respect the consumer enough to ensure that their product works properly to earn repeat business from them.

Finally, I have not come to the issue late (all my posts on this topic can be dug up out of the archives).  In fact, I thought I had said all I had to say on the matter -- and indeed had enjoyed putting the issue behind me -- but when someone comes along and voices their displeasure with all the bugs found in a game -- a game they had paid good money for -- only to be shouted down by some company loyalist telling them that they are wrong to feel that way (and in a rather derisive fashion, at that) then I take issue.

So, to sum up, no, even if this was just about the Silverite Mine bug (which it is not) your defence doesn't stand.  This is an epidemic that has been growing within this company -- for the last couple of games or so -- and people have every right to voice their displeasure and let Bioware know that they are losing customers by their The-Gamers-Can-Fix-It-Themselves policy.  Now, whether Bioware listens or not is another matter but people should have the right to feel pissed about this.

Modifié par Tatinger, 31 décembre 2010 - 04:03 .

[Elhanan]

Tatinger wrote...

Um, maybe you didn't follow the line of logic there, so let me further elucidate the matter.  While the Silverite Mine bug may have an easy walkaround it does not excuse the long litany of bugs further encoded into the game (not every one of which has that easy, but extremely inconvient, walkaround that you suggest).  So what do you say to the other fifty or so known examples that have been catalogued and listed?  The fact is, if apologists continue to defend Bioware for these defects then, yes, an explanation is needed.  Simply saying "oh, well, you take your chances when you purchase a game" is not an excuse as other game companies go to great pains to correct these kind of issues and make damn sure that they respect the consumer enough to ensure that their product works properly to earn repeat business.

Finally, I have not come to the issue late (all my posts on this topic can be dug up out of the archives).  In fact, I thought I had said all I had to say on the matter -- and indeed had enjoyed putting the issue behind me -- when someone comes along and voices their displeasure with all the bugs found in a game, that they had paid good money for, only to be shouted down by some company loyalist telling them that they are wrong to feel that way (and in a rather derisive fashion, at that).

So, no, even if this was just about the Silverite Mine bug (which it is not) your defence doesn't stand.  This is an epidemic that has been growing within this company -- for the last couple of games or so -- and people have every right to voice their displeasure and let Bioware know that they are losing customers by their the-gamer-can-fix-it-themselves policy.  Now, whether Bioware listens or not is another matter but people should have the right to feel pissed about this.

As I do not play on your system but my own, I have not encountered this litany you mention. My count was two. The first is the Silverite mine bug, and the other was losing Sigrun's personal quest if one has done the Law & Order quest first. The first has a walkaround and I knew it was coming, and the latter one may/may not be a bug as there is no guarantee that every quest can be obtained by every character (eg; saving Velena vs gaining Farsong).

So while you see an epedemic, I note an inconvenience. And not one worthy of my time to boycott, at that.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I've encountered the silverite mines bug. There is a user created patch for it to fix it for PCs. unfortunately, consoles are at the mercy of developers. I can understand the descision to boycott the game until it's fixed. This isn't some minor, easily missed bug, like some obscure plot flag. How this made it past QC I'll never understand, but there you go.



Other than starting to play games on the PC, I don't know what can be done. With all the resources Bioware has, you'd think that, 9 months later, they would have figured out how to fix what one PC modder managed to do, but who knows.

[Tatinger]

Elhanan wrote...

Tatinger wrote...

Um, maybe you didn't follow the line of logic there, so let me further elucidate the matter.  While the Silverite Mine bug may have an easy walkaround it does not excuse the long litany of bugs further encoded into the game (not every one of which has that easy, but extremely inconvient, walkaround that you suggest).  So what do you say to the other fifty or so known examples that have been catalogued and listed?  The fact is, if apologists continue to defend Bioware for these defects then, yes, an explanation is needed.  Simply saying "oh, well, you take your chances when you purchase a game" is not an excuse as other game companies go to great pains to correct these kind of issues and make damn sure that they respect the consumer enough to ensure that their product works properly to earn repeat business.

Finally, I have not come to the issue late (all my posts on this topic can be dug up out of the archives).  In fact, I thought I had said all I had to say on the matter -- and indeed had enjoyed putting the issue behind me -- when someone comes along and voices their displeasure with all the bugs found in a game, that they had paid good money for, only to be shouted down by some company loyalist telling them that they are wrong to feel that way (and in a rather derisive fashion, at that).

So, no, even if this was just about the Silverite Mine bug (which it is not) your defence doesn't stand.  This is an epidemic that has been growing within this company -- for the last couple of games or so -- and people have every right to voice their displeasure and let Bioware know that they are losing customers by their the-gamer-can-fix-it-themselves policy.  Now, whether Bioware listens or not is another matter but people should have the right to feel pissed about this.

As I do not play on your system but my own, I have not encountered this litany you mention. My count was two. The first is the Silverite mine bug, and the other was losing Sigrun's personal quest if one has done the Law & Order quest first. The first has a walkaround and I knew it was coming, and the latter one may/may not be a bug as there is no guarantee that every quest can be obtained by every character (eg; saving Velena vs gaining Farsong).

So while you see an epedemic, I note an inconvenience. And not one worthy of my time to boycott, at that.

And that's fair -- that is to say, that your gameplaying experience wasn't horribly disrupted by these issues -- but that doesn't mean that these problems don't exist.  In fact, many of the problems reported here, at the Bioware SocialNetwork, and over at the Dragon Age Wiki, are reported by Bioware employees.  So that long list of bugs that I made mention of in my previous post is about as official a list as one can get.  That is to say that, even if you, yourself, didn't notice or run across all of them in your time playing the game, they're there in the final product, no ifs, ands, or buts, just waiting to spawn, should a player trigger just the right conditions for making them occur.  And a lot of people have had the misfortune to do just that, apparently -- to the point where they've become so disgusted by a game (a game that they probably overpaid for because it had the Bioware logo on it) that they've officially sworn off all future products.  Is that an extreme reaction?  Maybe.  But then again, as you've said, you have had only a few minor inconviences so you can't speak to the problems that these other people are having, can you? 

It'd be one thing if all these bugs existed and Bioware made patches to fix them but they don't.  And that, more than anything else, I think, has scared people away from DA2 and all future products.

Modifié par Tatinger, 31 décembre 2010 - 03:40 .

[TJPags]

Yet again, the argument comes up - it's a known bug, there's a walkaround.



Somehow that excuses such a ridiculous bug. Amazing.



WH had a known bug, too - should they have left that alone?

[Kastagir]

Simple answer - don't buy DA2. Don't reward the developer for this kind of behavior.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

It doesn't scare me away from buying future DA titles, but it has put me off on pre=ordering or early buying of future games. Instead, I think I shall wait to see how the reviews go, how bad the bug reports are, and wait until the first patch is released before buying.



I think such balatant and unfixed bugs will effect pre-order and date of release purchases more than anything, as people will want to wait to see if it's heavily bugged, or if bugs are fixed, before purchase. Makes sense.

[Elhanan]

TJPags wrote...

Yet again, the argument comes up - it's a known bug, there's a walkaround.

Somehow that excuses such a ridiculous bug. Amazing.

WH had a known bug, too - should they have left that alone?

The ironic thing for me is that this could have all been avoided if CRPG's would cease using item strips; one of my own little peeves. But I digress.....

At the very worst is that you lose some of your best gear. As many have posted, they actually roll with it all, and accept the notion that there is no guarantee that one gets to keep everything. Me? I tend towards being a greedy little Duck, strip down for a little bit to save all my shinies, and play onward. For myself and my O-C nature, it is somewhat more unsettling to have to rely upon a Player created fix to gain Ancient Elven boots. But I dood it.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

It doesn't scare me away from buying future DA titles, but it has put me off on pre=ordering or early buying of future games. Instead, I think I shall wait to see how the reviews go, how bad the bug reports are, and wait until the first patch is released before buying.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I deal with *all* games these days. Wait for the patches, then buy. If you're lucky, the game price might have dropped in that time.

I think such balatant and unfixed bugs will effect pre-order and date of release purchases more than anything, as people will want to wait to see if it's heavily bugged, or if bugs are fixed, before purchase. Makes sense.

That's probably a large reason why pre-orders are being loaded down with incentive 'goodies'. Don't mind the bugs, guys, focus on the shinies!

[Rvlion]

Had the Silverite Bug only once in 3 playthroughs of Awakening. 1st time wearing the Warden Commander armor I had no problem. 2nd time when I was wearing the Armor of the Sentinel I lost my armor and weapons (2 high end rune filled blades) and the 3rd time I was smart and removed the armor and weapons before venturing to far into the mine to save myself the thought of throwing my computer through the house.

[Dean_the_Young]

Tatinger wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I simply took advantage of the opportunity as a role playing perspective, and didn't even realize I was supposed to be angry until well after: I gut mugged. My items got stolen while I slept.

Why would I expect to get back everything?

Rebuilding, adapting my new armor inventory was fun, and dare I say even realistic? It's hardly like the game is hurting for equipment to buy and wear.

Wow.  That's the excuse you're going to peddle out for them, huh?  Okay.  Now go to Dragon Age Wiki site and spin your tale of excuses/alternative reality for all those listed.  Once you're done with Awakening, hop on over to Origins and tackle that section.  We'll eagerly be awaiting your post(s).

For them? 

I had fun with it. How is that an excuse? 

I also had fun when Alistair turned on me and left the party. I also had fun when I realized I'd been played by any of the half-dozen-hundred people who want your help for hidden reasons. I also had fun when things didn't go my way.

Not realizing it was a glitch didn't affect my fun. Realizing it was a glitch didn't make the fun I did have disappear.

[Dean_the_Young]

Kastagir wrote...

Simple answer - don't buy DA2. Don't reward the developer for this kind of behavior.

But then they'll be marginalized and ignorred when people enjoy DA2.

"Stop having fun! It wasn't good! I bet it had crippling bugs to! We showed you, not buying it and all!"

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...


That's probably a large reason why pre-orders are being loaded down with incentive 'goodies'. Don't mind the bugs, guys, focus on the shinies!

yeah, you're right about that, and in many cases, it might even work. Some people like their shinies enough that this might override the possibility that anything, shinies included, could be seriously bugged.

I myself am yet to see a shiny that could override my concerns with bugs, especially as you often end up with better shinies in game, or modders can create items with same stats and name as shinies.

The only shinies that I'd consider is if it involves a unique quest, a companion only available by pre-order, ect. And even then, it would have to be pretty damned good.

[Giggles_Manically]

I wont pre-order any game ever again.



I didnt do it, and so missed out on all the bugs for Fallout New Vegas. I can wait a month after release for them to fix the bugs, or see if the game is crap.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Yeah, Awakenings was the last pre-ordered game I'll ever buy. I did so because DA, for me, was not only interesting, but in the general sense, had comparitively fewer major, in your face bugs than other titles, so I had enough confidence that Awakening would deliver the same quality. And boy, was I wrong. While I did generally enjoy the game as far as story and companions, even if it was rather rushed, the blatant, unforgivable bugs and glitches made me shelve it until they, or someone else, patched it. And then you had the major bugs in WH which were not very confidence inspiring.



Though I am reasonably sure DA2 could be potentially just as epic as DAO, there's a few things that are not confidence inspiring: mainly, the rather short development timeframe, in which there seem to be alot of major changes to the overall gameplay/set up. It's release is little over a year after the original, and from what I understand, development was started right as DAO: was finished.



Personally, I think a longer development period would have been better, to work out bugs, amongst other things. A development time of little over a year does not seem sufficient to not only make an epic sequel that is rich and well formed, but runs reasonably smooth at the same time.

[Giggles_Manically]

I would gladly give a game another month to develop, but EA and Bioware seem to want to go for profit over quality right now.



Cant blame them, but buggy games just ****** people off a lot.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

When you consider that there was 2 years between the realses of the BG games (which were not drastically different mechanically-wise, no major intensive tweeks to the game engine) and then another 2 years until the release of Neverwinter nights (and 4 years until NWN2, even if it was developed by Obsidian, the two companies have worked together on things), then it does seem that a year and a couple months is not sufficient for DA2, especially given the comparitive complexity of the engine and graphics, compared to earlier, older titles.



Especially as the changes being made from DA:O and DA2 are alot more signifigant than the changes between BG1 and BG2. I remember when I saw the mystery 2011 date in the flyer in Awakenings, it was more logical, at the time, to conclude that it was another possible expansion, would have made more sense, given the time that had passed between the release of DAO and said mystery date. I was actually quite surprised, and unpleasantly so, to learn it was the sequel. Especially as originally, we were supposedly looking forward to 2 years worth of DLC and expansions for DAO.



As far as story development goes, it's possible that an epic story by itself can be written in such a short space of time, especially if the whole of it was being written during DAO's development. My concern is the successful execution and implementation of a good plotline, on top of major gameplay/mechanical changes, especially given the advanced engine in comparison to older games.



Awakening's release was only a few months after the original, and we see how that turned out: tons of headache inducing bugs, rushed story, ect. I don't know the exact time frame of how long it was in development, but from the end result, it does not seem very long. In comparison, if you take NWN2 and it's first expansion, MOTB, it was a year between the release of the original and the expansion.



I personally think Awakenings could have done much better, and supported a good reputation, had they taken more time with it. But you might be right, Giggles, it might be a case of quicker releases: quicker earnings. Which is not a business model that will inspire confidence in the future. At least for me. Though I imagine for many, haste is good for the impatient.

[Sir Lemons]

To the people saying that "I found the Silverite mines bug fun, since nothing is certain", I can understand what they're getting at. But still, it is a major bug which shouldn't have made it past testing. And even so, there are bugs that do more than that. For example the fact that somewhere around 50% of all item bonuses remain un-implemented, and some uniqe quests become unobtainable if you do something in a certain order. This should not be, it's as simple as that.

Blatant, game ruining bugs should not make it past testing, and IF they still would, they should be patched as soon as possible. Bioware has failed at this, and while I still enjoy the story and game mechanics of their games, it is far from acceptable.



Edit: Spelling.

Modifié par Sir Lemons, 01 janvier 2011 - 06:52 .

[Angband21]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Tatinger wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I simply took advantage of the opportunity as a role playing perspective, and didn't even realize I was supposed to be angry until well after: I gut mugged. My items got stolen while I slept.

Why would I expect to get back everything?

Rebuilding, adapting my new armor inventory was fun, and dare I say even realistic? It's hardly like the game is hurting for equipment to buy and wear.

Wow.  That's the excuse you're going to peddle out for them, huh?  Okay.  Now go to Dragon Age Wiki site and spin your tale of excuses/alternative reality for all those listed.  Once you're done with Awakening, hop on over to Origins and tackle that section.  We'll eagerly be awaiting your post(s).

For them? 

I had fun with it. How is that an excuse? 

I also had fun when Alistair turned on me and left the party. I also had fun when I realized I'd been played by any of the half-dozen-hundred people who want your help for hidden reasons. I also had fun when things didn't go my way.

Not realizing it was a glitch didn't affect my fun. Realizing it was a glitch didn't make the fun I did have disappear.

I'd love to sell you a car. "that unexpected acceleration? Wasn't that fun?" It's not a problem, it's an experience!

[RagnarokChu]

Question is why are people pre-ordering DA2 when it's KNOWN that game breaking bugs manage to sneak past quality testing in huge alarming numbers with the previous. I don't mind maybe obscure bugs being in the game or number of minor things not working as intended. (With maybe that one really bad/game breaking bug that people stumble across). But having a GOOD number of items mods for your weapons/armor not working and alot of the abilities and mechanics messed up is just bad development. I remember when I attempted to try out the game when it first came out on my friend's copy on xbox, apparently there was a huge bug about daggers being useless and I didn't have much fun with my dagger rogue. (Also the dialogue in the game, I seriously should not need Dialogue tweaks)

Also if you have the PC version to be able to mod the bugs, don't give me "well it's ok since I can mod the bugs, I'm preordering DA2 because of the shinies and I can prob do the same thing".You can also mod in the shinies without preordering the game.

I've bought the DA ultimate edition hoping that all of the bugs would be fixed by now and I had to mod the game quite alot to make worth my money. (Dialouge Tweaks, Qwiins's unofficial fix).

Modifié par RagnarokChu, 01 janvier 2011 - 08:26 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I suppose there are some people who pre-order so they can get the collector's edition or whatever, because they like having special or limited editions in games. I know a couple people who do collect special editions as sort of a hobby, like people who collect first edition or autographed books, and do so knowing there might be a high number of initial problems and bugs, but are resigned to wait until a patch.



I could understand that reasoning, though I personally am not bothered by special editions myself.

[Tatinger]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Tatinger wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I simply took advantage of the opportunity as a role playing perspective, and didn't even realize I was supposed to be angry until well after: I gut mugged. My items got stolen while I slept.

Why would I expect to get back everything?

Rebuilding, adapting my new armor inventory was fun, and dare I say even realistic? It's hardly like the game is hurting for equipment to buy and wear.

Wow.  That's the excuse you're going to peddle out for them, huh?  Okay.  Now go to Dragon Age Wiki site and spin your tale of excuses/alternative reality for all those listed.  Once you're done with Awakening, hop on over to Origins and tackle that section.  We'll eagerly be awaiting your post(s).

For them? 

I had fun with it. How is that an excuse? 

I also had fun when Alistair turned on me and left the party. I also had fun when I realized I'd been played by any of the half-dozen-hundred people who want your help for hidden reasons. I also had fun when things didn't go my way.

Not realizing it was a glitch didn't affect my fun. Realizing it was a glitch didn't make the fun I did have disappear.

You, Ser, are a game developer's best friend.

"The game crashed?  Awesome!  I wasn't expecting that!"

"I can't complete a number of quests in the game because the game isn't flagged properly and isn't triggering at some points?  Cool!  That means I can play forever and never complete the game as intended!   Hey, wait a second.  I just realized something.  I lost all the equipment that I gathered after all those hours of relentless questing?  That's just like what happened when I tried to import my Warden and their hard won inventory into the game in the first place! This game rocks! Where do I sign up for Dragon Age II?"

Modifié par Tatinger, 01 janvier 2011 - 08:56 .