132 réponses à ce sujet

[jpdipity]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that MOST PEOPLE are a great deal more responsible at 40 than at 20. Maybe 20-year-old Duncan would have slept with Morrigan because she offered but not 40-year-old Duncan. And there is a difference between taking a legitimate risk and potentially dooming all of Thedas (who knows what that baby is capable of or what Flemeth is capable of doing with it?) because he wants one person to live when he's shown himself capable of ruthlessly cutting down his recruits or letting people suffer/die out of pragmatism...or worse, because he can't talk Leliana into ****ing him.

Edit: I mean, seriously. There are a lot of frat guys in college who will do anything that moves and yet if you check back two decades later, they will likely have stopped this behavior because it's been two decades. And did you see how when the HNF tried to proposition Duncan, he got all awkward and said it wouldn't be appropriate for him to go into her room, even just to talk? 

We'll have to agree to disagree.  I don't think most people change because of age - they change because of their experiences or because the consequences have become too great to continue said behavior. Duncan is still a single man with no family ties - he has no reason to change his behavior in that department.  Most "frat guys" get married and have a family; so, they change their behavior.  I would further disagree with you and say that most single people who were promiscuous in their youth and have never been in a committed relationship nor are looking for one, are likely still promiscuous 20 years later.  Again, I could be wrong, but in my experience, that seems to be the case (in every case of the handful of people that I know who fit this bill actually). 

With the Origin advance, I think he shoots it down because it is counter-productive to his goal of getting a recruit without pissing anyone off.  He may be awkward because he wants to, but doesn't want to take the risk or because he was caught of guard by how forward the young recruit was being.  Most people don't get more shy about advances with age - it is usually quite the opposite actually.  On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me if the intent in the game was to make him shy about such advances despite how he behaved in the books - there is not a lot of consistency between the books and the game.

Regarding the DR, ending the Blight is the main goal of a GW and one that must be ended at whatever costs.  So, the OGB could be written off as just another cost of ending the blight even if the results unknown.  If the DR works, it would be a new discovery for the GW order and could save not just a single life today, but more in the future.  Duncan did not have a very positive outlook on the Order in his youth.  Now, he may have come to terms with his fate and sees the necessity of the Order, but I think most people would still harbor some of those feelings and may seize an opportunity to avoid their destiny despite their better judgement. 

So, I see a number of reasons including bedding Morrigan that I think Duncan would consider the DR.  Are they smart, or logical, or even reasonable reasons? Absolutely not, but I think that they fit within his character.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Hanz54321 wrote...
Wrong.  Bhelen managed to, behind the scenes, secure enough loyalty from other noble houses and Deshyrs to kill his oldest brother, pin the blame on his next older brother, and have said next older brother exiled without a trial against all law.

This is a MASTER politician and tactician.  We are talking Augustus Ceasar here.  Sure, some folks hated him and he was a douche, but he knew how to eliminate his foes without starting wars and he garnered the love of the masses to a degree that the elite did not have the numbers to suplant him.

Would somebody please repost the Bhelen Messiah Inspirational Poster.  Because it's true.  It's true.

PS:  I'm so ****** drunk right now forgive my forthrightness.

Bhelen makes me feel warm inside, everytime I think about it. 

I almost want to use this emoticon:

[Sarah1281]

So, I see a number of reasons including bedding Morrigan that I think Duncan would consider the DR.  Are they smart, or logical, or even reasonable reasons? Absolutely not, but I think that they fit within his character.

We've established that as Duncan did his Joining with Riordan, he can't do the ritual anymore than Riordan can (and Morrigan insists that he can't in-game so that's canon) so he is not going to get to sleep with Morrigan no matter how much you think he might want to unless you think he's going to try to blackmail her into it by not sending Alistair to her unless first she'll sleep with him which is REALLY morally questionable.

Now for the requested images: 


And I also found this: 

[Wulfram]

I definitely think Duncan would keep the Mages alive. Who cares if there are a few blood mages among them - they'll still kill Darkspawn.

[LupusYondergirl]

It seems like something as public as fighting in a proving under a candidate's name in front of a substantial chunk of the city is a far more open bit of political meddling than just delivering a couple letters. Bhelen, at least, doesn't demand such a visible show of support. I'd imagine, if he had to meddle in politics, Duncan would take the route that allowed the Wardens to keep at last the facade of impartiality

[Wulfram]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

It seems like something as public as fighting in a proving under a candidate's name in front of a substantial chunk of the city is a far more open bit of political meddling than just delivering a couple letters. Bhelen, at least, doesn't demand such a visible show of support. I'd imagine, if he had to meddle in politics, Duncan would take the route that allowed the Wardens to keep at last the facade of impartiality

Delivering letters to leading nobles is extremely public.

Really, the whole point of the opening quests in Orzammar is to force the Warden to declare their allegiance publicly before they get to meet with the candidate.

[Wedger]

Landsmeet: I'm not sure Duncan would have been in a position to even go before the Landsmeet or rescue Anora from Howe, unless he supported Alistair for king w/Eamon.

[Wedger]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Wulfram - If you spend time talking to Harrowmount, he tells you that he never wanted the job, Harrowmounts have never been leaders but instead supporters, and that he's only doing it because Orzamar has called on him to do it (translation - some noble houses stand to lose influence if Bhelen takes the throne and put Harrowmount up to it).

On one of your playthroughs take Zevran to Orzamar with you. Meet with Dulin Forender about gaining Harrowmount's support and Zevran summarily tells you, "This guy is not king material - he can't even inspire or rule his own people."

It took me a few playthroughs to have all these various discussions, but ultimately it is clear that Harrowmount is a fine "get this done for me" kind of guy, but not decisive nor inspiring enough to lead.

editted for typos

I agree.  Alistair's liking Harrowmount actully made me question if Alistair should be King...

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Wedger wrote...
I agree.  Alistair's liking Harrowmount actully made me question if Alistair should be King...

Yes, Alistair is quite idealistic and naieve in terms of politics, and thus, would pick the candidate that appears to be the "right" candidate, or the nicer one, instead of one that's more fit. Though supposedly, hardening him improves this mentality a bit.

Another area, if course, is his naievite and ignorance of the implications of the letters found at Ostagar.

[Addai]

Hanz54321 wrote...

So on original topic:

1) Duncan would side with the Templar. Yes, he is not a fan of the Chantry nor does he have prejudices against magic. He loves magic power to fight darkspawn. But being ever the pragmatist he would side with the Templar once Gregoir promised to help against the Blight. This would keep the Wardens in the Chantry's good graces (respect ruling power) AND get him an army of butt kickers. He recruited Alistair because he thought his Templar abilities would aid against the darkspawn, so why not all the templars.

Definitely disagree on this one.  In the mage origin Duncan talks about the power of having even one mage in your unit.  He wants all the mages he can get.  Eliminate all the artillery in your arsenal?  Not a chance.

Plus, he and Fiona are BFF.  Definitely save the mages.

2) Redcliffe: he would absolutely save the town as the militia count as part of the Redcliffe Army. He'd slay Connor as a trip to the Circle would take two days and possibly give Connor time to wipe out the town. He would not sacrifice Isolde because there is no guarantee that Jowan's amateur blood magic would even work.

He might try the ritual.  If it doesn't work, you can still kill Connor.  I'm iffy on this one, except I agree that he would do one of those two things and not go to the Circle.

Modifié par Addai67, 01 décembre 2010 - 10:02 .

[Zjarcal]

The reason why I couldn't see Duncan doing Jowan's blood ritual is that it means killing someone using a ritual that we don't know for sure it would work, as well as sending a mage to fight a demon by themselves.



It's mostly the risking the mage's life that I think Duncan wouldn't want to do, unless a mage volunteers.

[Giggles_Manically]

Zjarcal wrote...

The reason why I couldn't see Duncan doing Jowan's blood ritual is that it means killing someone using a ritual that we don't know for sure it would work, as well as sending a mage to fight a demon by themselves.

It's mostly the risking the mage's life that I think Duncan wouldn't want to do, unless a mage volunteers.

Duncan would probably kill Conner. 
Its the fastest, easiest, and safest solution to the problem. 

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

Hanz54321 wrote...

So on original topic:

1) Duncan would side with the Templar. Yes, he is not a fan of the Chantry nor does he have prejudices against magic. He loves magic power to fight darkspawn. But being ever the pragmatist he would side with the Templar once Gregoir promised to help against the Blight. This would keep the Wardens in the Chantry's good graces (respect ruling power) AND get him an army of butt kickers. He recruited Alistair because he thought his Templar abilities would aid against the darkspawn, so why not all the templars.

Definitely disagree on this one.  In the mage origin Duncan talks about the power of having even one mage in your unit.  He wants all the mages he can get.  Eliminate all the artillery in your entire arsenal?  Not a chance.

Plus, he and Fiona are BFF.  Definitely save the mages.

I agree. Duncan has to do the same thing to get either ally: Confront and stop Uldred. Whether the mages can be saved or not depends on whether Irving survives. I think that Duncan would try to keep Irving alive as he's the First Enchanter (maybe delegating the task to Wynne?) and because the only way he'd die in the battle is if he becomes an abomination and it just makes sense to not let more abominations be created as then they'd have more to fight.

Greagoir is naturally inclined to take Irvings' word that the Tower is fine unless Duncan felt the need to speak up. There are mages that can fight for him and Irving assures him that they'll be ready and there are templars that can fight for him only if the mages are sent off to be interrogated. It's not a matter of having a certain ally or having a potential one like if you convince the werewolves to kill the Dalish and hope that they'll agree to fight the Blight for you afterwards. It's a matter of having two allies ready to help you and having to pick who is stronger. Emissaries are said to be rare and Alistair tells you that against non-mages (or emissaries in this case) a templar is just a guy with a sword. Darkspawn can't use templar skills so the mages would never be neutralized. Duncan can get a guy with a sword anywhere. Mages are more valuable.

[Addai]

Zjarcal wrote...

The reason why I couldn't see Duncan doing Jowan's blood ritual is that it means killing someone using a ritual that we don't know for sure it would work, as well as sending a mage to fight a demon by themselves.

It's mostly the risking the mage's life that I think Duncan wouldn't want to do, unless a mage volunteers.

Yes, that's possible, and why my Dalish mage killed Connor.  It's the only sure way of taking care of the problem and risking a mage's life in wartime is a big risk when you need all the mages you can get.

Modifié par Addai67, 01 décembre 2010 - 10:07 .

[Sarah1281]

He'd have split to Orlais naturally.

We know that. The question was what he would do if, for whatever reason, he stayed in Ferelden.