216 réponses à ce sujet

[Marionetten]

In Exile wrote...

Oh, you managed to put the game toghether? See, I couldn't enjoy KoTOR2 because it came broken.

It didn't come broken. It came cut like more or less every single game made today. Yes, Obsidian had to make some cuts due to their schedule and they weren't exactly good at covering their tracks. So what? BioWare made plenty of cuts in Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and indeed Dragon Age: Origins. That BioWare covered their tracks far better doesn't really excuse the fact that cuts were made.

Look, I don't like it either but I think it's kind of ridiculous to rant on about how evil Obsidian are for making cuts when BioWare does the exact same damn thing. At least Obsidian didn't repurpose the cut content as DLC.

Modifié par Marionetten, 30 novembre 2010 - 11:27 .

[Blastback]

Marionetten wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Oh, you managed to put the game toghether? See, I couldn't enjoy KoTOR2 because it came broken.

It didn't come broken. It came cut like more or less every single game made today. Yes, Obsidian had to make some cuts due to their schedule and they weren't exactly good at covering their tracks. So what? BioWare made plenty of cuts in Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and indeed Dragon Age: Origins. That BioWare covered their tracks far better doesn't really excuse the fact that cuts were made.

The problem for me was that towards the end, the story just seemed to fall apart.  I needed to go to Wookiepedia to find out what had happened. 

[In Exile]

Blastback wrote...
Yeah they do, Lucasarts forced them to release it before they were ready.  They even offered to make put up the missing content as free dlc, but for some reason couldn't.

And if they released a game that wasn't a buggy mess, I would buy that. But NWN2 was poorly optimized with all the time in the world, Alpha Protocol was criminally offensive, and New Vegas was outright theft on the consoles.

The endgame would have actual content, but I'm not betting it would be less buggy. Awakening level bugs = a good release for Obsidian.

Modifié par In Exile, 30 novembre 2010 - 11:28 .

[Marionetten]

In Exile wrote...

And if they released a game that wasn't a buggy mess, I would buy that.

... And yet you bought Dragon Age: Origins? Strange how that works.

[Blastback]

In Exile wrote...

Blastback wrote...
Yeah they do, Lucasarts forced them to release it before they were ready.  They even offered to make put up the missing content as free dlc, but for some reason couldn't.

And if they released a game that wasn't a buggy mess, I would buy that. But NWN2 was poorly optimized with all the time in the world, Alpha Protocol was criminally offensive, and New Vegas was outright theft on the consoles.

The endgame would have actual content, but I'm not betting it would be less buggy. Awakening level bugs = a good release for Obsidian.

Okay, I was talking content rather than bugs.  And yeah, Obsidian's track record there aint to good.  But I don't remember experiancing many in KotOR 2. 

[Isaidlunch]

In Exile wrote...

Oh, you managed to put the game toghether? See, I couldn't enjoy KoTOR2 because it came broken.

Seriously, for whatever praise you can give it re: what it tried to achieve, the actual result is 2/3rds of a buggy game that collapses as you near the ending. And for that, Obsidian has no excuse.

From what I experienced it was still not as buggy as DA:O + Awakenings. And when LucasArts pushes Obisidan to reach a very short deadline then yes, I do think they have an excuse for both the bugs and the ending.

Modifié par Kazanth, 30 novembre 2010 - 11:35 .

[Harid]

KOTOR 2 was less buggy than DA:O, at least the KOTOR 2 I played. However, KOTOR 2 had a mass of cut content, so hey, Bioware beat them there.



People may slag on Obsidian, but the writing in KOTOR 2 was better than anything Bioware did with the franchise so far, (though I thank Bioware for KOTOR1), ****ty non ending aside.



Some company needs to like. . .hire Obsidian to do the writing only and leave the programming, character design, and time constraints to professionals. That would be like. . .one of the best RPGs ever made.

[Bryy_Miller]

Marionetten wrote...

In Exile wrote...

And if they released a game that wasn't a buggy mess, I would buy that.

... And yet you bought Dragon Age: Origins? Strange how that works.

Exile, you honestly walked into that one.

[upsettingshorts]

In Exile wrote...
Alpha Protocol was criminally offensive

I honestly had zero issues.  None.  Actually no, I can think of one:  Upon a quick reload of a mission, the icons over things like hackable computers and lootable items disappeared.  This was solved by simple restarting the game.  It happened once.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 01 décembre 2010 - 06:13 .

[AlexXIV]

I think there is a wide consense that Kotor2 release was rushed which annoyed about everyone who bought the game, and that Lucas Arts is to blame, not Obsidian. Even though I don't really understand why game developers have so little say in when/if they are done. I mean, they have a reptutation to lose as well. Even more I am surprised that Bioware is working with LA again (SWTOR) despite what happened. It's all about money I guess. If you have enough you can be the ass you ever wanted, and LA seems to know that just too well.

[Ortaya Alevli]

KotOR 2 didn't like me in the slightest, I can tell. Broken dialogue and quests brought the game to the point of being unplayable. Nar Shaddaa was a total mess in particular. Gameplay was alright (it was practically the same as in KotOR anyways) and writing was avellone, but the scripting part was a disaster. Problems mostly of the kind you experince in Awakening. And, yeah, damned if I know what the hell happened in the end.

Origins had its fair share of scripting problems, but telling that they were as bad as KotOR 2's is unfair. Aside from one notable example where you couldn't find Jowan to complete the chanter board quest, most everything you did in Origins made sense. Few things were left hanging.

[DMC12]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Origins had its fair share of scripting problems, but telling that they were as bad as KotOR 2's is unfair. Aside from one notable example where you couldn't find Jowan to complete the chanter board quest, most everything you did in Origins made sense. Few things were left hanging.

KOTOR2's shortcomings were indeed a shame. I liked the darker atmosphere when compared to the first game. I got a good feeling with DA2 though.

[LexXxich]

KOTOR2 problems were on individual basis. I played through it three times and never experienced any, and other people I know got every kind of glitches and bugs in their playthroughs. But that's off topic.



About spell upgrades being optional. It's not exactly true. You can't just cherry pick spells from the tree, you have to first pick their pre-reqs spells, AND have a certain amount of points invested in said tree. So it's quite possible you'll *have* to upgrade Fireball and Fire Weapons at least once each before you get pre-reqs for Inferno.

Less spells kinda bothers me also because it's argued as "reducing redundancy". In Origins one had 4 ways to paralyse an enemy. It may look redundant, but each of them had different side effects. And 3 of them were on different cooldowns, so you could use another in case your primary got resisted by lucky dwarf.

[In Exile]

Marionetten wrote...
It didn't come broken. It came cut like more or less every single game made today. Yes, Obsidian had to make some cuts due to their schedule and they weren't exactly good at covering their tracks. So what? BioWare made plenty of cuts in Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and indeed Dragon Age: Origins. That BioWare covered their tracks far better doesn't really excuse the fact that cuts were made. 

Actually, it absolutely does. If a game feels complete, that's important. It leads to someone being a satisfied customer.

So, for example, not having an actual ending, having critical failure crashes all the time, missed quest cues etc. etc. is unacceptable.

Look, I don't like it either but I think it's kind of ridiculous to rant on about how evil Obsidian are for making cuts when BioWare does the exact same damn thing. At least Obsidian didn't repurpose the cut content as DLC.

I didn't say they were evil. What the hell are you talking about? I just said the game was broken, because the extent of the cuts and bugs.

Marionetten wrote...
... And yet you bought Dragon
Age: Origins? Strange how that works.

Don't know what game you played, but my copy of DA:O was bug free. Awakening not so much, but then I've criticized Bioware all over the place for that mess.

[Marionetten]

In Exile wrote...

Actually, it absolutely does. If a game feels complete, that's important. It leads to someone being a satisfied customer.

I was not satisfied with the cuts made in Mass Effect 2. Especially not with how they effected Legion.

In Exile wrote...

So, for example, not having an actual ending, having critical failure crashes all the time, missed quest cues etc. etc. is unacceptable.

But the game did come with an actual ending. Two of them, in fact. The critical failure crashes I'm going to have to attribute to your hardware as I experienced no issues with Knights of the Old Republic II or Alpha Protocol for that matter. Missed quest cues? Certainly. But that is a far cry from the product being outright broken. Dragon Age: Origins came with several broken quests. In fact, I believe that Jowan's quest remains broken.

In Exile wrote...

I didn't say they were evil. What the hell are you talking about? I just said the game was broken, because the extent of the cuts and bugs.

You accuse them of doing nothing but pushing out broken games while praising BioWare for doing the exact same thing.

In Exile wrote...

Don't know what game you played, but my copy of DA:O was bug free. Awakening not so much, but then I've criticized Bioware all over the place for that mess.

How about the actual game? Dragon Age: Origins was not bug free at release and no amount of wishful thinking will make it so.

[In Exile]

Marionetten wrote...
I was not satisfied with the cuts made in Mass Effect 2. Especially not with how they effected Legion. 

I didn't notice any cut content with Legion.

But the game did come with an actual ending. Two of them, in fact. The critical failure crashes I'm going to have to attribute to your hardware as I experienced no issues with Knights of the Old Republic II or Alpha Protocol for that matter. 

Are we back to this again? Look: just because you don't have a problem with something doesn't mean it isn't a problem. If we're using meaningless idiosyncratic standards, then DA:O was absolutely not bugged because I never encountered any bugs. Why do you insist on using nonsensical standards?

As for ''hardware'' problems, I had KoTOR II on the xbox and AP on the 360; that hardware is standardized.

Missed quest cues? Certainly. But that is a far cry from the product being outright broken. Dragon Age: Origins came with several broken quests. In fact, I believe that Jowan's quest remains broken.

I encountered broken quests on several worlds, including Dantoinne with Vrook and HK-50 on Paragus (this one making the game impossible to play until I checked an FAQ).

You accuse them of doing nothing but pushing out broken games while praising BioWare for doing the exact same thing.

I accused them of relasing one broken game, and responded to a claim that the game was not intentionally broken by pointing to other releases that Obsidian released that ran poorly  (and console New Vegas, that was every bit as bad as KoTOR II in the bug department).

What does that have to do with ''evil''? I don't think they're malicious; they're just shoddy programmers. If I thought they were malicious, I would call them out.

More importantly, where did I praise Bioware? I just said that Obsidian's track history shows that bugs of Awakening level problems are par for the course (KoTOR II, New Vegas, Alpha Protocol). Their one stable (comparatively) release was NWN2, and that's 1 game out of 4.

In Exile wrote...

How about the actual game? Dragon Age: Origins was not bug free at release and no amount of wishful thinking will make it so.

By your own standard, in two threads now, the apparent fact I have no problem with the game is sufficient to justify there is no problem. Just like you mentioned with the dialogue system in DA:O, and now just like with the bugs I apparently didn't experience in AP, KoTOR II and New Vegas.

[Marionetten]

In Exile wrote...

I didn't notice any cut content with Legion.

And apparently you didn't notice any bugs in Dragon Age: Origins either. Seems like every BioWare game enjoys a free pass with you.

In Exile wrote...

Are we back to this again? Look: just because you don't have a problem with something doesn't mean it isn't a problem. If we're using meaningless idiosyncratic standards, then DA:O was absolutely not bugged because I never encountered any bugs. Why do you insist on using nonsensical standards?

That would be a valid argument if the bugs were situational. Guess what? They aren't. They are well documented and they are plentiful. And that is exactly why I brought it up. To show just how utterly nonsensical your whole argument is. You can keep propogating your narrow opinion for as long as you like. Hell, you can even pretend that it overrites the actual facts, too. That doesn't necessarily make it true.

In Exile wrote...

As for ''hardware'' problems, I had KoTOR II on the xbox and AP on the 360; that hardware is standardized.

Because no BioWare game has ever crashed an Xbox 360, right?

In Exile wrote...

I encountered broken quests on several worlds, including Dantoinne with Vrook and HK-50 on Paragus (this one making the game impossible to play until I checked an FAQ).

I never claimed that Knights of the Old Republic II didn't have broken quests. I claimed that it wasn't a broken game. Big difference.

In Exile wrote...

I accused them of relasing one broken game, and responded to a claim that the game was not intentionally broken by pointing to other releases that Obsidian released that ran poorly  (and console New Vegas, that was every bit as bad as KoTOR II in the bug department).

What does that have to do with ''evil''? I don't think they're malicious; they're just shoddy programmers. If I thought they were malicious, I would call them out.

Semantics. My point is that you seek to demonize them. Whether that is to be accomplished by calling them evil or incompetent is besides the point.

In Exile wrote...

More importantly, where did I praise Bioware?

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps by acting as if everything ever released by them has been completely bug free when it clearly hasn't? You're acting like an irrational fanboy here. ****ting on everything ever released by Obsidian while acting as if BioWare has never released anything in an unfinished state. At least try to maintain some semblance of objectivity.

The fact of the matter is that these big games are inevitably going to contain bugs. It doesn't matter if it's BioWare, Obsidian or Bethesda. A big project like Dragon Age: Origins, Fallout 3 or Fallout: New Vegas is going to have bugs.

In Exile wrote...

By your own standard, in two threads now, the apparent fact I have no problem with the game is sufficient to justify there is no problem. Just like you mentioned with the dialogue system in DA:O, and now just like with the bugs I apparently didn't experience in AP, KoTOR II and New Vegas.

http://social.biowar...m/project/2563/

... If only. And you know, I never argued that Knights of the Old Republic II, Alpha Protocol or Fallout: New Vegas were bug free. That would be dumb. Even Call of Duty: Black Ops came with bugs.

Modifié par Marionetten, 01 décembre 2010 - 04:14 .