333 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

I see Varric is now a dwarven king.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I hope they remove the gifts.  They were stupid. 

*recalls seriously advocating for gifts before DA:O came out*

They were a great idea.

[upsettingshorts]

I don't deny that some do enjoy giving Alistair toys in exchange for approval. I don't, really. Alistair's locket, Morrigan's mirror, Leliana's flower - gifts that have real context - are the only ones I liked.

[Xewaka]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I see Varric is now a dwarven king.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I hope they remove the gifts.  They were stupid. 

*recalls seriously advocating for gifts before DA:O came out*

They were a great idea.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't deny that some do enjoy giving Alistair toys in exchange for approval. I don't, really. Alistair's locket, Morrigan's mirror, Leliana's flower - gifts that have real context - are the only ones I liked.

I think it was stated that not-plot gifts were cut down, and that only quest/plot related gifts were available, such as said mirror or Sten's sword. No action figures for Alistair this time.

Modifié par Xewaka, 30 novembre 2010 - 04:46 .

[ErichHartmann]

Yes, it was confirmed awhile ago gifts will be very limited this time. No more spamming for easy approval.

[Sigil_Beguiler123]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't deny that some do enjoy giving Alistair toys in exchange for approval. I don't, really. Alistair's locket, Morrigan's mirror, Leliana's flower - gifts that have real context - are the only ones I liked.

Don't quote me on this but I swear I remember  a developer saying that gifts in DA2 will be like that. That they will be unique and important to individual companions.

[Maria Caliban]

Sir JK wrote...

MIke_18 wrote...

Gifts trigger dialogue in DA:O too. The main gifts do, each unique to a character. This time they removed the other gifts. And this is not simplified?

Think of it this way: Now you have to find what they think is special and actually care about what they think for the friendship/rivalry path. Unlocking those high end rewards just became more difficult.

You *already* had to find what they think is special and actually cared about.

And since when is "it's more difficult" automatically a good thing?

[andar91]

I have no issue with the new approval/rivarlry system. And I think the changes in how gifts work are a massive improvement. The gifts that were important in Origins such as Morrigan's mirror and the like felt like they actually meant something. Gaining approval from Wynne because you just gave her a dog bone or whatever seemed ridiculous.

[Shepard Lives]

andar91 wrote...

I have no issue with the new approval/rivarlry system. And I think the changes in how gifts work are a massive improvement. The gifts that were important in Origins such as Morrigan's mirror and the like felt like they actually meant something. Gaining approval from Wynne because you just gave her a dog bone or whatever seemed ridiculous.

This right here.

[Maria Caliban]

Yes, because you were *forced* to give her a dog bone. If you didn't, Mary Kirby would come to your house and set your furniture on fire.

How about this? I think casual mode is ridiculously easy, so they should just remove this optional feature. After all, no one should be able to experience the game save in ways I enjoy.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 30 novembre 2010 - 05:04 .

[upsettingshorts]

All we do on these forums is advocate features we like, and criticize the ones we don't. Sometimes bluntly, sometimes artfully, sometimes angrily. In some gaming utopia, we'd all get what we want. Since Bioware frequents this forum and uses it - somewhat implicitly - as a kind of focus group, it is in our interests to say when we don't like something, and support the things we do.

In any case, the subject of gifts is extremely low on my list - pro or con - I just felt like throwing my two cents in regarding the more generic gifts in DA:O, and I'm glad DA:2 is limiting them to the more substantial, story-supported variety.

[Xewaka]

Thing is, they're not removing gifts. They're making them mean something.

[Heavenblade]

I'd like to give my loyal followers REAL gifts. Like immortality, or a vial of dragon's blood. Something to feed their massive egos while at the same time allowing me to indulge my god-complex and dreams of being a benevolent dictator.

[Addai]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yes, because you were *forced* to give her a dog bone. If you didn't, Mary Kirby would come to your house and set your furniture on fire.

How about this? I think casual mode is ridiculously easy, so they should just remove this optional feature. After all, no one should be able to experience the game save in ways I enjoy.

Yes, agreed.  If you have a certain RP principle, follow it and don't expect the game to babysit you and slap your hand if you don't.  I don't mind all gifts triggering unique commentary, but even as the system was in Origins, I liked it.  Portrait of a Rebel Queen was a unique item in the world, as was the Stone Warrior statuette, and knowing which companion would appreciate which added to their characterization.

[Gleym]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

All we do on these forums is advocate features we like, and criticize the ones we don't. Sometimes bluntly, sometimes artfully, sometimes angrily. In some gaming utopia, we'd all get what we want. Since Bioware frequents this forum and uses it - somewhat implicitly - as a kind of focus group, it is in our interests to say when we don't like something, and support the things we do.

This would be nice to believe once in a while. It's just that it seems that whenever Bioware DOES listen to fans, they don't listen clearly enough or make up their own assumptions of what to do in that regard. A basic example is Mass Effect:

Fans complained primarily about the following things:
-The inventory's layout, lackluster functionality and tedious browsing, along with a lack of sorting and ability to discard useless stuff outside of selling it/dissolving into Omnigel.
-The Mako's physics and the terrain design of planets that seemed to make this physics issue all the more frustrating.
-The shooter functions (which were primarily affected by stats, though there were plenty more issues than just that).
-The lack of eventfulness in elevators (although many people liked them otherwise, the awkward silences could get tedious to some).

What Bioware did in response to these complaints?
-Vivisected and all but removed the inventory save for a loadout bay for weapons and minor armor customization.
-Removed the Mako and planet exploration entirely.
-Removed all RPG facets that were connected to the shooter functions, instead going with a strictly shooter-based design unaffected by stats (outside of increased damage).
-Removed elevators altogether.

So yeah.. it'd be nice to believe that Bioware actually listened to their fans in full, rather than just hear 'we don't like this!' and decide "Well, guess we better tear that out of the game altogether!" When you go in for a kidney transplant, you don't expect the doctor to remove your liver, spleen, lungs and heart in the process.

[Brockololly]

Sir JK wrote...
There is no indication at all that we will have less dialogue to go through. So you don't have to lie restless at night worrying that the companions will be less fleshed out.

All we know is that there is a new alternative path... no more, no less.

Well, what I'm wondering is that given the supposed more dialogue for the rivalry path, if the word budget and all that for each companion is the same as Origins, doesn't that mean that in a single playthrough of either having a rival or friend, you'd end up with less dialogue than an Origins companion? It makes it good for repeat playthroughs, but I wonder how it'll work in actuality.

Addai67 wrote...
Portrait of a Rebel Queen was a unique item in the world, as  was the Stone Warrior statuette, and knowing which companion would  appreciate which added to their characterization.

Yup- the little companion specific gifts were nice- like finding out how MOrrigan loves jewelery or Sten loves paintings or how Wynne is a wino.

I know Gaider went over the nitty gritty mechanics of the new approval system a while back in some post, but I'd like to know if we still see the approval/disapproval in numeric form now or if its just some nebulous visual like the ME style paragon/renegade bars?

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 novembre 2010 - 06:11 .

[upsettingshorts]

I never suggested they listened to us "in full." I actually think it'd be folly to do so. We give feedback, they can take it or leave it. And some of those changes you list I'm 100% in favor of and had I been posting here back then, would have explicitly called for.

Advocating a position is all we can do. The rest - and obviously the vast majority of the work - is on Bioware.

[Gleym]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I never suggested they listened to us "in full." I actually think it'd be folly to do so. We give feedback, they can take it or leave it. And some of those changes you list I'm 100% in favor of and had I been posting here back then, would have explicitly called for.

..Yeah, all I can do is shake my head now. I don't think I will ever find it in me to like you after hearing that. Just.. yeah..

[Maria Caliban]

Gleym wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I never suggested they listened to us "in full." I actually think it'd be folly to do so. We give feedback, they can take it or leave it. And some of those changes you list I'm 100% in favor of and had I been posting here back then, would have explicitly called for.

..Yeah, all I can do is shake my head now. I don't think I will ever find it in me to like you after hearing that. Just.. yeah..

You base whether you like people or not on their RPG/game preferences?

I mean, most of my friends don't even play computer games.

[andar91]

Addai67 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yes, because you were *forced* to give her a dog bone. If you didn't, Mary Kirby would come to your house and set your furniture on fire.

How about this? I think casual mode is ridiculously easy, so they should just remove this optional feature. After all, no one should be able to experience the game save in ways I enjoy.

Yes, agreed.  If you have a certain RP principle, follow it and don't expect the game to babysit you and slap your hand if you don't.  I don't mind all gifts triggering unique commentary, but even as the system was in Origins, I liked it.  Portrait of a Rebel Queen was a unique item in the world, as was the Stone Warrior statuette, and knowing which companion would appreciate which added to their characterization.

That's exactly what I did.  I didn't give Wynne the bone or whatever.  And yes, the objects did lend flavor to the world and the characters.  I'm just saying that I don't mind the change because I think it's probably for the better.

[AlanC9]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

/downs a shot

Damn. I've got to stop reading these threads in the afternoon. Or maybe just get my flask.

[AlanC9]

Gleym wrote...

What Bioware did in response to these complaints?
-Vivisected and all but removed the inventory save for a loadout bay for weapons and minor armor customization.
-Removed the Mako and planet exploration entirely.

These are not exactly true. The Mako's out, but the Hammerhead is in. Planetary exploration is in, you just do it from orbit rather than on the ground. And there's plenty of work with your equipment, you just don't do it by playing dolly-dress-up. (I suppose ME2 gear doesn't upgrade quite as far as ME1 gear does, but I've never actually compared percentages.) If anything, ME2 has better mechanisms since you can research new kinds of weapons, research upgraded weapons that actually function differently, and planetary exploration actually makes a difference in how and what you can upgrade.

-Removed all RPG facets that were connected to the shooter functions, instead going with a strictly shooter-based design unaffected by stats (outside of increased damage).
-Removed elevators altogether.

These are true. But I wanted elevators gone completely, and I'm just fine with using my skills to shoot stuff.

Modifié par AlanC9, 30 novembre 2010 - 09:06 .

[In Exile]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't deny that some do enjoy giving Alistair toys in exchange for approval. I don't, really. Alistair's locket, Morrigan's mirror, Leliana's flower - gifts that have real context - are the only ones I liked.

I'm just going to point out the hilarious sexual undertones, suggest Alistair liked licking lamposts in winter, and leave it at that.

[Archereon]

"Perfectly placed fireball, or twelve"- PCG



"Whereas a rogue walled in by Darkspawn in Origins would be screwed, someone like Isabela can just backflip out of there"



even if that's a cut scene, that's going to make me bash my head against my hands, I swear...



And if Mike Laidlaw was lying about active dodging being non-existant in that thread of mine...



FYM.



(mostly for the lying part)

[Archereon]

AlanC9 wrote...

Gleym wrote...

What Bioware did in response to these complaints?
-Vivisected and all but removed the inventory save for a loadout bay for weapons and minor armor customization.
-Removed the Mako and planet exploration entirely.

These are not exactly true. The Mako's out, but the Hammerhead is in. Planetary exploration is in, you just do it from orbit rather than on the ground. And there's plenty of work with your equipment, you just don't do it by playing dolly-dress-up. (I suppose ME2 gear doesn't upgrade quite as far as ME1 gear does, but I've never actually compared percentages.) If anything, ME2 has better mechanisms since you can research new kinds of weapons, upgraded weapons that actually function differently, and planetary exploration that actually makes a difference in how and what you can upgrade.

-Removed all RPG facets that were connected to the shooter functions, instead going with a strictly shooter-based design unaffected by stats (outside of increased damage).
-Removed elevators altogether.

These are true. But I wanted elevators gone completely, and I'm just fine with using my skills to shoot stuff.

I could honestly deal with the ME2 upgrade system in MASS EFFECT (not DA though)

If they, for example, quantified the damn system, in its current form, its just as much of a cluster**** system as the original.

Also, I'd like it to be less linear.

Modifié par Archereon, 30 novembre 2010 - 08:41 .

[nightcobra]

Archereon wrote...

"Perfectly placed fireball, or twelve"- PCG

"Whereas a rogue walled in by Darkspawn in Origins would be screwed, someone like Isabela can just backflip out of there"

even if that's a cut scene, that's going to make me bash my head against my hands, I swear...

And if Mike Laidlaw was lying about active dodging being non-existant in that thread of mine...

FYM.

(mostly for the lying part)

that evade thing isabela does is a rogue talent for quick getaways, it's not active dodging but a skill with cooldowns like all the others.