he was disintegrated
Saren is dead, or is he?
Débuté par
War Houndoom
, nov. 30 2010 09:11
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#77
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 06:04
Maestro975
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If this were Star Trek, then one could not rule out a Year of Hell style storyline which pits our heroes against Saren again. But ME has thus far avoided time travel/alternate reality stories (perhaps wisely?), I'm not sure how one could do a YOH style scenario in ME, and since a YOH scenario is the only way Saren (or any other villain who lacks enough mileage for a resurrection) could come back without cheapening his final defeat, I think you see where I'm going with this.
Sovereign has lots of parts unaccounted for that could continue on in different forms, but a true resurrection would be kindof redundant, as "Harbinger is coming," and there might be a third Reaper that's been spending the last 300 years poisoning Haestrom's sun.
Sovereign has lots of parts unaccounted for that could continue on in different forms, but a true resurrection would be kindof redundant, as "Harbinger is coming," and there might be a third Reaper that's been spending the last 300 years poisoning Haestrom's sun.
#78
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 06:35
Luigitornado
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VampireCommando wrote...
well he did kinda disintagrate into lots of little pieces = no lazerous project for him. But on a serious note, the guys as dead as a doornail, can't bring him back, it would be ridiculas, and no a clone is not the same thing as the original Saren Arteruis coming back from the beyond.
There is always the possibility of bringing Saren back. Maybe not the Saren we knew...as in a replicated clone, but the being.
As another user and I have mentioned, salvaging Saren's memories or consciousness from the Soverign wreckage could be one way to bring Saren back...if the writers chose to. We know that Saren was indoctrinated, and we know when this happens the Reapers are able to acquire that indoctrinated person’s memories and experiences. One may think that when this happens the Reapers store it as data. If this data-memory is uploaded into a vessel, you would essentially be bringing that person “back to life.”
Not saying the writers would do that…but it does serve as an example that bringing Saren back is not out of the question.
Modifié par Luigitornado, 01 décembre 2010 - 06:35 .
#79
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 06:45
Schneidend
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Saren's dead, but he lives on in the whole "walking a fine line to do what's necessary" dichotomy between he and Shepard.
#81
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 06:50
Crimmsonwind
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Is it possible? Of course it's possible, this is science fiction, and with enough writing you could do anything.Luigitornado wrote...
VampireCommando wrote...
well he did kinda disintagrate into lots of little pieces = no lazerous project for him. But on a serious note, the guys as dead as a doornail, can't bring him back, it would be ridiculas, and no a clone is not the same thing as the original Saren Arteruis coming back from the beyond.
There is always the possibility of bringing Saren back. Maybe not the Saren we knew...as in a replicated clone, but the being.
As another user and I have mentioned, salvaging Saren's memories or consciousness from the Soverign wreckage could be one way to bring Saren back...if the writers chose to. We know that Saren was indoctrinated, and we know when this happens the Reapers are able to acquire that indoctrinated person’s memories and experiences. One may think that when this happens the Reapers store it as data. If this data-memory is uploaded into a vessel, you would essentially be bringing that person “back to life.”
Not saying the writers would do that…but it does serve as an example that bringing Saren back is not out of the question.
But it would be completely ridiculous and stupid.
#82
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 06:52
Schneidend
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Crimmsonwind wrote...
Hah... no.
Was this directed at me? If so, please elaborate.
#83
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 06:54
Crimmsonwind
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It was directed at the OP.Schneidend wrote...
Crimmsonwind wrote...
Hah... no.
Was this directed at me? If so, please elaborate.
#84
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 06:58
Luigitornado
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Crimmsonwind wrote...
Is it possible? Of course it's possible, this is science fiction, and with enough writing you could do anything.Luigitornado wrote...
VampireCommando wrote...
well he did kinda disintagrate into lots of little pieces = no lazerous project for him. But on a serious note, the guys as dead as a doornail, can't bring him back, it would be ridiculas, and no a clone is not the same thing as the original Saren Arteruis coming back from the beyond.
There is always the possibility of bringing Saren back. Maybe not the Saren we knew...as in a replicated clone, but the being.
As another user and I have mentioned, salvaging Saren's memories or consciousness from the Soverign wreckage could be one way to bring Saren back...if the writers chose to. We know that Saren was indoctrinated, and we know when this happens the Reapers are able to acquire that indoctrinated person’s memories and experiences. One may think that when this happens the Reapers store it as data. If this data-memory is uploaded into a vessel, you would essentially be bringing that person “back to life.”
Not saying the writers would do that…but it does serve as an example that bringing Saren back is not out of the question.
But it would be completely ridiculous and stupid.
Not if executed correctly.
#85
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 07:03
Crimmsonwind
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To elaborate on the "ridiculous and stupid" part though, so I sound like less of a dick:
There wouldn't be a reason to bring Saren back. Saren was being used with the Geth, to help control them, and to have an inside agent among the world of the fleshy aliens. Saren was exposed as a traitor, and taken down. Then the Reapers tried using the Collectors, and Shepard stopped them. It seems silly to try an avenue that you've already used, when it didn't work the first time.
On the indoctrination scale, Saren was starting to fall into the zombie category. Rana Thanoptis talked about how there came a point where the indoctrinated weren't useful anymore. The more Sovereign "upgraded" Saren, the less useful he would be as an undercover agent. He was starting to give himself over fully to the Reapers, devoting himself to Sovereign, as we saw in the last little stand-off in ME1.
Plus, I don't think you could walk around with glowing jaws and a wire coming out of the back of your head for very long before someone noticed you looked a little... robotic for a Turian.
Assuming that Saren's mind was somehow dumped into a new body, He may still not be as useful as he once was. I find it hard to believe they would be able to pick out what memories they'd want to put back in this new body, and have him still be loyal to the Reapers, and not have him blow his cover.
I'm not saying that it can't be done, but it would take some damn good writing to pull off without coming across as some cheap trick. Plus,t he way the game seems to be going, reintroducing a character from ME1 into ME3 would alienate the new players they're so eager to please.
There wouldn't be a reason to bring Saren back. Saren was being used with the Geth, to help control them, and to have an inside agent among the world of the fleshy aliens. Saren was exposed as a traitor, and taken down. Then the Reapers tried using the Collectors, and Shepard stopped them. It seems silly to try an avenue that you've already used, when it didn't work the first time.
On the indoctrination scale, Saren was starting to fall into the zombie category. Rana Thanoptis talked about how there came a point where the indoctrinated weren't useful anymore. The more Sovereign "upgraded" Saren, the less useful he would be as an undercover agent. He was starting to give himself over fully to the Reapers, devoting himself to Sovereign, as we saw in the last little stand-off in ME1.
Plus, I don't think you could walk around with glowing jaws and a wire coming out of the back of your head for very long before someone noticed you looked a little... robotic for a Turian.
Assuming that Saren's mind was somehow dumped into a new body, He may still not be as useful as he once was. I find it hard to believe they would be able to pick out what memories they'd want to put back in this new body, and have him still be loyal to the Reapers, and not have him blow his cover.
I'm not saying that it can't be done, but it would take some damn good writing to pull off without coming across as some cheap trick. Plus,t he way the game seems to be going, reintroducing a character from ME1 into ME3 would alienate the new players they're so eager to please.
Modifié par Crimmsonwind, 01 décembre 2010 - 07:10 .
#86
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 07:42
Luigitornado
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Anything is possible...
I already posted this....but.
Consider if you choose to not side with Cerberus at the end of ME2. You pretty much screwed them over. Now consider the state they are left in at the end of the third book. It can be surmised that Cerberus is hurting, which may lead TIM to make some desperate, but practical decisions. Saren, by far, is the second most adept being in the galaxy who can take on the Reapers: first being Shepard. Since he was indoctrinated, Saren must have some important information on his experience with the Reapers, and would be a valuable asset to Cerberus in the absence of Shepard's cooperation. We already know that Cerberus has been fooling around with Reaper tech, and is interested in the indoctrination process, so resurrecting Saren might be a preferable option.
However, TIM might re-think his philosophy after being screwed over by a Paragon Shepard. Cerberus would implement a control device into the newly rebuilt Saren, to make sure that they have his cooperation.This Saren would also be housed in entirely mechanical body, which would make controlling him, a lot easier.
As far as revealing Cerberus trump card...in terms of plot. It would be subtly hinted to the player over the course of the game that Cerberus replaced Shepard with figure who has been working in the shadows. Saren's final revelation would happen at a key plot point, such as an important mission...where Shepard has infiltrated an enemy base...only to be shadowed by a hidden Saren (working for Cerberus interests) who reveals himself to assist Shepard during the climax of the mission.
Again...this is just armature stuff that I wrote up quickly. I hate for my idea to be a focal point in the argument of why Saren should not be brought back to life.
I already posted this....but.
Consider if you choose to not side with Cerberus at the end of ME2. You pretty much screwed them over. Now consider the state they are left in at the end of the third book. It can be surmised that Cerberus is hurting, which may lead TIM to make some desperate, but practical decisions. Saren, by far, is the second most adept being in the galaxy who can take on the Reapers: first being Shepard. Since he was indoctrinated, Saren must have some important information on his experience with the Reapers, and would be a valuable asset to Cerberus in the absence of Shepard's cooperation. We already know that Cerberus has been fooling around with Reaper tech, and is interested in the indoctrination process, so resurrecting Saren might be a preferable option.
However, TIM might re-think his philosophy after being screwed over by a Paragon Shepard. Cerberus would implement a control device into the newly rebuilt Saren, to make sure that they have his cooperation.This Saren would also be housed in entirely mechanical body, which would make controlling him, a lot easier.
As far as revealing Cerberus trump card...in terms of plot. It would be subtly hinted to the player over the course of the game that Cerberus replaced Shepard with figure who has been working in the shadows. Saren's final revelation would happen at a key plot point, such as an important mission...where Shepard has infiltrated an enemy base...only to be shadowed by a hidden Saren (working for Cerberus interests) who reveals himself to assist Shepard during the climax of the mission.
Again...this is just armature stuff that I wrote up quickly. I hate for my idea to be a focal point in the argument of why Saren should not be brought back to life.
#87
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 07:53
Crimmsonwind
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But Saren wouldn't have a place. TIM is pro human, Cerberus is pro human, and I don't think that he would place all his bets on Saren even if Paragon Shep screwed him. If his goal is to stop the reapers, and he considers himself above such grudges, he's likely to help Shepard stop the Reapers even if Shepard has decided to go his/her own way.
Bringing Saren back would be too dangerous. TIM is willing to do a lot of dangerous things, like have agents crawl around the inside of a Reaper, among other things. But to bring back an alien who had previously been indoctrinated, and have him shadow the one chance of hope the galaxy has, without knowing just how deeply the indoctrination has affected him or how to counter it... TIM might as well be forwarding his mission reports to the Reapers themselves.
Bringing Saren back would be too dangerous. TIM is willing to do a lot of dangerous things, like have agents crawl around the inside of a Reaper, among other things. But to bring back an alien who had previously been indoctrinated, and have him shadow the one chance of hope the galaxy has, without knowing just how deeply the indoctrination has affected him or how to counter it... TIM might as well be forwarding his mission reports to the Reapers themselves.
#88
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 08:14
Luigitornado
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TIM has shown that he is willing to work with aliens in the past, and has also made some mistakes. And like you said earlier this is science fiction, anything is possible when explained right. Maybe during the process of resurrecting Saren, it purges him of the indoctrination effects.
We know that Cerberus is interested in the indoctrination process. Maybe the data they retrieved from Grayson would help them with find a solution the problem you presented.
We know that Cerberus is interested in the indoctrination process. Maybe the data they retrieved from Grayson would help them with find a solution the problem you presented.
#89
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 08:37
Crimmsonwind
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I don't know man. It's a bit of a stretch.
#90
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 08:48
Luigitornado
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...I never said it was a good idea ;|. I was trying to avoid creating an idea that would be critiqued...which would then lead me to defending it. I just wanted to give an example, showing why anything is possible.
If it doesn't happen, then it doesn't happen. It shouldn't stop people from having fun discussing different possibilities of Saren's return.
If it doesn't happen, then it doesn't happen. It shouldn't stop people from having fun discussing different possibilities of Saren's return.
#91
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 09:00
Crimmsonwind
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Luigitornado wrote...
...I never said it was a good idea ;|. I was trying to avoid creating an idea that would be critiqued...which would then lead me to defending it. I just wanted to give an example, showing why anything is possible.
Welcome to the internet. Please check your coat, hat, and sense of morality at the door.
#92
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 09:09
Sajuro
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They recover saren's memories enough to make an AI out of.
#93
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 09:58
Manic Sheep
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*sigh* This is science fiction, yes you can make pretty much anything happen and yes things like resurrection can be explained in a way that would make relative sense BUT that still doesn’t mean you should do it.
Resurrection can be alright if it happens once in a story (Shepard already took that and enough people were pissed about that) and isn't something that could easily be replicated or replicated at all preferably. Not only is playing the resurrection card cheap and lame way or recycling liked characters (which you shouldn’t do) and of having an “OMG THEIR ALIVE” moment. It also brings up the question of if you can resurrect or clone them why can’t you do it for someone else? Does that mean if they die again they can just be resurrected again? Ect
Bioshock *Spoiler warning* managed to sort of got away with Ryan and Jack using vita chambers but mostly because it was largely dismissed as a game play mechanic and it was not hugely important to plot so people didn’t need to think about it. If I remember correctly there were a few posters for it and one audio dairy sort of explaining how it worked but no one, including Fontaine when talking about why he used Jack actually mentioned the vita chamber thing (he went on about bathyspheres and security not vita chambers). Bioshock 2 on the other hand pissed allot of people of with Delta’s resurrection which was central to the plot and opened the “could Ryan still be alive?” and “why can’t you do this with everyone?” can of worms. Seriously, you should have seen the amount of rage on the forums over this and its one of the main reasons people didn’t like the plot.
Also there are certain things people are more willing to suspend belief about than others. Is element zero and biotics believable? No not really but things like that are generally acceptable. Resurrection however is always pushing the envelope in what people are willing to accept. Why? Not sure, maybe because death is one of our biggest absolutes in life. Either way it just one of those things that should be avoided in writing.
Resurrection can be alright if it happens once in a story (Shepard already took that and enough people were pissed about that) and isn't something that could easily be replicated or replicated at all preferably. Not only is playing the resurrection card cheap and lame way or recycling liked characters (which you shouldn’t do) and of having an “OMG THEIR ALIVE” moment. It also brings up the question of if you can resurrect or clone them why can’t you do it for someone else? Does that mean if they die again they can just be resurrected again? Ect
Bioshock *Spoiler warning* managed to sort of got away with Ryan and Jack using vita chambers but mostly because it was largely dismissed as a game play mechanic and it was not hugely important to plot so people didn’t need to think about it. If I remember correctly there were a few posters for it and one audio dairy sort of explaining how it worked but no one, including Fontaine when talking about why he used Jack actually mentioned the vita chamber thing (he went on about bathyspheres and security not vita chambers). Bioshock 2 on the other hand pissed allot of people of with Delta’s resurrection which was central to the plot and opened the “could Ryan still be alive?” and “why can’t you do this with everyone?” can of worms. Seriously, you should have seen the amount of rage on the forums over this and its one of the main reasons people didn’t like the plot.
Also there are certain things people are more willing to suspend belief about than others. Is element zero and biotics believable? No not really but things like that are generally acceptable. Resurrection however is always pushing the envelope in what people are willing to accept. Why? Not sure, maybe because death is one of our biggest absolutes in life. Either way it just one of those things that should be avoided in writing.
Modifié par Manic Sheep, 01 décembre 2010 - 09:59 .
#95
Posté 02 décembre 2010 - 12:42
Locutus_of_BORG
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OMG OMGMOMGGOMG That's why on the Normandy he says that in the end only he and Sheppard will be left!!!Sajuro wrote...
OR! saren is GRUNT! DUN DUN DUNNNNMallissin wrote...
He's dead.
But wait! Maybe he cloned himself on Virmire!
Except he looked like a Krogan, sounded like a Krogan and thought like a Krogan for the few seconds he was alive before we nuked the place.
:madfingerwhipz: OOOOHHHHH OHOHOHOHOHOOH!!!! :breaksfingersmassivehemorragedies:
Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 02 décembre 2010 - 12:43 .
