292 réponses à ce sujet

[Luigitornado]

wulf3n wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
Go ahead and mock me if you want Wulf, I pity anyone who could not enjoy this game like I did.  I don't tell Bioware where to spend their resources because they obviously don't need my advice to make a great game and they CERTAINLY don't need yours.  

You yourself have said ALL games could be better, so why not try and help them get better? As good as ME1 was, there was a lot of things that needed improvement. ME2 addressed some of these things. As good as ME2 was there are a lot of things that need improvement. so why not help by pointing out in a rational manner what you would like improved?

Pity me all you wan't but i go to sleep knowing i'm helping the industry evolve, rather than join in the massive victory w**k that seems to keep sprouting up.

Sounds as though you are belittling the people who enjoyed the game. 

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...
Because Mass Effect 2 doesn't have any major flaws.  If the game's controls sucked, if it had terrible voice acting, or if it crashed every 30 minutes then those would be legitimate flaws and I would complain about it. 

If those flaws even managed to get to the release of the game, bioware wouldn't deserve to exist. Just because a game is good, doesn't mean it should be immune to criticism. The reason ME2 was good, was because bioware looked at what made all their previous games good, took feedback from the fans, and built on that. If no one ever criticized their previous games you wouldn't have your precious ME2. You should be thanking those willing to criticize as they're what lead to ME2.

You're such an ingrate.

Busomjack wrote...
The things you brought up don't matter in the slightest.  That's why almost nobody else other than you has brought them up.  Most people do not care because the game is so excellent overall.

So what about the first 5 pages of this thread? or the 2 dozen threads complaining about the story?

Luigitornado wrote...
Sounds as though you are belittling the people who enjoyed the game. 

Far from it, as i enjoyed the game as well, and i'd hardly belittle myself. However from my experience those that truly enjoyed become so jaded they fail to see the imperfections that do exist, and only serve to diminish what ME3 could be.

Modifié par wulf3n, 02 décembre 2010 - 04:01 .

[Luigitornado]

wulf3n wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
Because Mass Effect 2 doesn't have any major flaws.  If the game's controls sucked, if it had terrible voice acting, or if it crashed every 30 minutes then those would be legitimate flaws and I would complain about it. 

If those flaws even managed to get to the release of the game, bioware wouldn't deserve to exist. Just because a game is good, doesn't mean it should be immune to criticism. The reason ME2 was good, was because bioware looked at what made all their previous games good, took feedback from the fans, and built on that. If no one ever criticized their previous games you wouldn't have your precious ME2. You should be thanking those willing to criticize as they're what lead to ME2.

You're such an ingrate.

Busomjack wrote...
The things you brought up don't matter in the slightest.  That's why almost nobody else other than you has brought them up.  Most people do not care because the game is so excellent overall.

So what about the first 5 pages of this thread? or the 2 dozen threads complaining about the story?

Maybe if the people who didn't like the story went about complaining differently, and would be a little bit diplomatic about it.

[wulf3n]

Luigitornado wrote...
Maybe if the people who didn't like the story went about complaining differently, and would be a little bit diplomatic about it.

The majority are, if you go really read through what they say. But as soon as they post any negative criticism, the next few pages are spent trying to defend themselves from ppl who ignore what they say, label them haters, and bring few if any counter points to the argument, devolving to simply "you're wrong!"

edit: see below for just such an example.

Modifié par wulf3n, 02 décembre 2010 - 04:06 .

[Busomjack]

Bioware would be wasting their time and resources addressing the nitpicking you've brought up, especially since the game was an huge commercial and critical success and just about nobody else cares about your issue with the game. Mass Effect 1 did have a couple pretty big problems so criticism was justified there. Mass Effect 2 really doesn't have any major issues so Bioware should just give us more of what we want with a few new twists and ideas to keep things fresh.



"So what about the first 5 pages of this thread? or the 2 dozen threads complaining about the story?"



Hogwash, all of it.

[2papercuts]

Luigitornado wrote...
Maybe if the people who didn't like the story went about complaining differently, and would be a little bit diplomatic about it.

what?

[Luigitornado]

Well good then.

I'm done with this thread. I agree that there are imperfections, I just disagree with the severity you painted them with.

[2papercuts]

Busomjack wrote...

Bioware would be wasting their time and resources addressing the nitpicking you've brought up, especially since the game was an huge commercial and critical success and just about nobody else cares about your issue with the game. Mass Effect 1 did have a couple pretty big problems so criticism was justified there. Mass Effect 2 really doesn't have any major issues so Bioware should just give us more of what we want with a few new twists and ideas to keep things fresh.

"So what about the first 5 pages of this thread? or the 2 dozen threads complaining about the story?"

Hogwash, all of it.

i can't tell if you're a troll or not...

Modifié par 2papercuts, 02 décembre 2010 - 04:09 .

[Busomjack]

2papercuts wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Bioware would be wasting their time and resources addressing the nitpicking you've brought up, especially since the game was an huge commercial and critical success and just about nobody else cares about your issue with the game. Mass Effect 1 did have a couple pretty big problems so criticism was justified there. Mass Effect 2 really doesn't have any major issues so Bioware should just give us more of what we want with a few new twists and ideas to keep things fresh.

"So what about the first 5 pages of this thread? or the 2 dozen threads complaining about the story?"

Hogwash, all of it.

i can't tell if you're a troll or not...

What?  I don't need to read 5 pages of bickering and moaning to determine whether or not the game has a good plot.  I've played the game and experienced the plot myself, that's all the evidence I need to come to my conclusion.  I don't need to be objective about this and listen to everyone elses complaints because I don't go out of my way to find a problem with a game, that is called nitpicking.
If I don't noticed a problem then it's too small a problem for me to waste any of my life worrying about.

[2papercuts]

Busomjack wrote...

2papercuts wrote...

i can't tell if you're a troll or not...

What?  I don't need to read 5 pages of bickering and moaning to determine whether or not the game has a good plot.  I've played the game and experienced the plot myself, that's all the evidence I need to come to my conclusion.  I don't need to be objective about this and listen to everyone elses complaints because I don't go out of my way to find a problem with a game, that is called nitpicking.
If I don't noticed a problem then it's too small a problem for me to waste any of my life worrying about.

no just can't tell if your the biggest ME2 fan or someone trolling

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...
 I don't need to be objective about this and listen to everyone elses complaints because I don't go out of my way to find a problem with a game, that is called nitpicking.

What you call nitpicking the rest of us call improvement.

Busomjack wrote...
If I don't noticed a problem then it's too small a problem for me to waste any of my life worrying about.

Then why spend several hours arguing about it? If you're happy with games becoming stale because no ones willing to push the developers further, that's fine, i'm not here to tell people what they should enjoy. The problem is instead of this thread being about examining the plot of ME2 with the hopes of finding out what works and what doesn't 90% of the time is wasted by people who don't bring anything for or against to the conversation .

[Busomjack]

The rest of you huh? You mean like the 2-3 other people who even bothered to notice any of those problems much less care about them?

It takes a lot of hubris to think Bioware should give any credence to your complaints at all considering how almost everybody was overjoyed by this game. I think the market tends to be democratic and you're on the losing side in this election Wulf3n.

The reason why I'm arguing about it is because Mass Effect 2 is close to me. Attacking the game is like attacking a brother.

In fact, I really think you should apologize.

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...

The rest of you huh? You mean like the 2-3 other people who even bothered to notice any of those problems much less care about them?
It takes a lot of hubris to think Bioware should give any credence to your complaints at all considering how almost everybody was overjoyed by this game. I think the market tends to be democratic and you're on the losing side in this election Wulf3n.
The reason why I'm arguing about it is because Mass Effect 2 is close to me. Attacking the game is like attacking a brother.
In fact, I really think you should apologize.

What world do you live in? it must be brilliant with fairys and leprechauns and rainbows 24/7! Back here in the real world facts speak louder than opinion, and troll's are obvious.

Modifié par wulf3n, 02 décembre 2010 - 04:28 .

[MassEffect762]

LOL....the internet.



ME2: One big step forward and two no-shows.

[Busomjack]

You mean facts like these?



96 on Metacritic(highest rated Xbox360 title of all time)



http://www.metacriti...0/mass-effect-2



2 million copies sold in less than 2 weeks.



http://www.1up.com/n...ct-2-week-sales



Yeah, your criticisms sure do resonate well. It's funny, I could just imagine everyone enjoying the Hell out of Mass Effect 2 while you're shouting



"NO THIS GAME ISN'T VERY GOOD! YOU'VE GOT TO BUUULEEEVE MEH! PULLLEEEAASSE!"



And they're just like "What the Hell is he talking about?"

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...

You mean facts like these?

96 on Metacritic(highest rated Xbox360 title of all time)

http://www.metacriti...0/mass-effect-2

2 million copies sold in less than 2 weeks.

http://www.1up.com/n...ct-2-week-sales

Yeah, your criticisms sure do resonate well. It's funny, I could just imagine everyone enjoying the Hell out of Mass Effect 2 while you're shouting

"NO THIS GAME ISN'T VERY GOOD! YOU'VE GOT TO BUUULEEEVE MEH! PULLLEEEAASSE!"

And they're just like "What the Hell is he talking about?"

This just proves my point. You see what you wan't to see. For starters i never said the GAME wasn't any good. Just the plot. Second just because something is good doesn't mean it can't be better. But instead of trying to make it better, you sit there wrecking ME3 by dooming it to stagnation.

You're the epitome of the "fanboy" you think that to "like" a game one must worship every aspect. You think you're helping what you love, but in reality you're destroying it. At least thats what i'd say if i thought u were serious. but as they say obvious _ _ _ _ _ is obvious.

Modifié par wulf3n, 02 décembre 2010 - 04:57 .

[Busomjack]

A good storyline is integral in ANY solid RPG so to say you think the game is good despite not having a good storyline is dishonest on your part. It's like saying a 3d platformer is good despite having a crappy camera.

How am I dooming Mass Effect 3? You know what, nevermind. I'm not really interested in hearing what you have to say since you've sunk down to using personal attacks.

By telling Bioware that they're perfect(assuming they listen to my opinion which isn't necessary) I improve Mass Effect 3. Mass Effect 2 was so good in every respect that if Bioware were to disregard anything in that game based on the nonsensical complaints of a few Biwoare haters then it would be vastly disapointing that such a great game wasn't used as a model to build a successful third game.



I hope Bioware ignores any criticism on these forums or anywhere else and just do what they think is best because it's obvious they know best.

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...
A good storyline is integral in ANY solid RPG so to say you think the game is good despite not having a good storyline is dishonest on your part. It's like saying a 3d platformer is good despite having a crappy camera.

No its not. just look at the fable series, Borderlands, WoW, Diablo, Titan Quest. all Solid RPG's, all with minor stories.

Busomjack wrote...
How am I dooming Mass Effect 3? You know what, nevermind. I'm not really interested in hearing what you have to say since you've sunk down to using personal attacks.
By telling Bioware that they're perfect(assuming they listen to my opinion which isn't necessary) I improve Mass Effect 3.Mass Effect 2 was so good in every respect that if Bioware were to disregard anything in that game based on the nonsensical complaints of a few Biwoare haters then it would be vastly disapointing that such a great game wasn't used as a model to build a successful third game.

The fact you believe that something that isn't perfect can't be improved speaks volumes.

Busomjack wrote...
I hope Bioware ignores any criticism on these forums or anywhere else and just do what they think is best because it's obvious they know best.

It's the criticism you so despise that lead to ME2 in the first place, if everyone was like you ME2 would be ME1 all over again, a game which you despise so much, it's a wonder how you even played ME2. So instead of attacking the people trying to make games better for everyone maybe you should actually try coming up with a valid argument.

Modifié par wulf3n, 02 décembre 2010 - 05:15 .

[Iakus]

So,l in the interest of NOT getting this thread locked due to degeneration into bickering, what was it about the plot that ME 2 fans did like that was better thasn ME1?

[Siegdrifa]

Busomjack wrote...
The reason why I'm arguing about it is because Mass Effect 2 is close to me. Attacking the game is like attacking a brother.
In fact, I really think you should apologize.

If it's getting down to a child fight without real argument, their is no point in sharing point of view (don't have to agree with them) and arguement.

It's good because i like
it's bad because i don't like
Both are just a pure waste to discus.

You defend your game because through criticism of other you feel dumbed down to like the game how he is.

But taste can hardly be discused.
Some people like bleu color, doesn't mean red is better or badder, it's different.

You spend most of the mission in this game doing 100% unrelated quest to the main plot.
IF it suit your taste, nobody can say you are wrong and you are lucky to have a game that fit your preferences.

Now when someone say the loyality mission is NOT related to collectors, it's a fact.
When saying main plot hardly get coherence if most of ressources devloped is in fact not related and even less linked together (no link between samar's mission and thane mission for exemple) it's also a compeling arguement.

If someone point that out in a right manner (no "IT'S SHIIIIIIT") doesn't mean they are ME2 haters.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 02 décembre 2010 - 05:21 .

[SithLordExarKun]

Siegdrifa wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
The reason why I'm arguing about it is because Mass Effect 2 is close to me. Attacking the game is like attacking a brother.
In fact, I really think you should apologize.

If it's getting down to a child fight without real argument, their is no point in sharing point of view (don't have to agree with them) and arguement.

It's good because i like
it's bad because i don't like
Both are just a pure waste to discus.

You defend your game because through criticism of other you feel dumbed down to like the game how he is.

But taste can hardly be discused.
Some people like bleu color, doesn't mean red is better or badder, it's different.

You spend most of the mission in this game doing 100% unrelated quest to the main plot.
IF it suit your taste, nobody can say you are wrong and you are lucky to have a game that fit your preferences.

Now when someone say the loyality mission is NOT related to collectors, it's a fact.
When saying main plot hardly get coherence if most of ressources devloped is in fact not related and even less linked together (no link between samar's mission and thane mission for exemple) it's also a compeling arguement.

If someone point that out in a right manner (no "IT'S SHIIIIIIT") doesn't mean they are ME2 haters.

Yes and saying ME2 is a pile of crap is not fact, its an opinion. Saying ME1 is better than ME2 in every aspect is opinion and not fact.

Funny how this applies to bashing ME2 and not ME1.

[Busomjack]

WOW is an MMORPG, a genre which appeals to a very specific type of gamer (I.E.someone with no life, people who still think Leeroy Jenkins jokes are funny) so that one doesn't count.  Fable and Borderlands have good storylines but they're more humor based so it's not the same kind of quality as Mass Effect 2's.  Apples and oranges really  Haven't played Titan's Quest and I don't remember the plot of Diablo.  I have played dozens of RPGs and I have never finished one where I did not feel invested and interested in the plot.
Needless to say, Mass Effect 2 is a very story focused RPG.  Hell, you spend the majority of the game in dialogue so there is no way it could get away with being a good game if the storyline weren't worth a damn.
Also, I do think Mass Effect 2 can be improved but Bioware should improve it by building upon Mass Effect 2's strengths which are every aspect of the game, storyline included.  I don't want them to repeat Mass Effect 2 in Mass Effect 3.  I just want to incorporate what made that game great and add a few new twists and fresh ideas, that's all.

[Busomjack]

Siegdrifa wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
The reason why I'm arguing about it is because Mass Effect 2 is close to me. Attacking the game is like attacking a brother.
In fact, I really think you should apologize.

If it's getting down to a child fight without real argument, their is no point in sharing point of view (don't have to agree with them) and arguement.

It's good because i like
it's bad because i don't like
Both are just a pure waste to discus.

You defend your game because through criticism of other you feel dumbed down to like the game how he is.

But taste can hardly be discused.
Some people like bleu color, doesn't mean red is better or badder, it's different.

You spend most of the mission in this game doing 100% unrelated quest to the main plot.
IF it suit your taste, nobody can say you are wrong and you are lucky to have a game that fit your preferences.

Now when someone say the loyality mission is NOT related to collectors, it's a fact.
When saying main plot hardly get coherence if most of ressources devloped is in fact not related and even less linked together (no link between samar's mission and thane mission for exemple) it's also a compeling arguement.

If someone point that out in a right manner (no "IT'S SHIIIIIIT") doesn't mean they are ME2 haters.

No, YOU'RE WRONG!  Those quests DO relate to the collectors since your companions finding closure in what they believe to be the twilight of their lives is a necessary step in preperation for their final battle against the Collectors. 
Even if we don't see the Collectors in the loyalty missions, every action that every character takes is due to the actions of the collectors and what must be done to stop them.

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...
Mass Effect 2 is a very story focused RPG.  Hell, you spend the majority of the game in dialogue so there is no way it could get away with being a good game if the storyline weren't worth a damn.

The individual stories are good, but the overall "plot" doesn't make much sense. The writing is great, but it's more a collection of short "character" stories rather than a full fledged story. While each character mission is fun to play, they feel tacked on to the actual story. 

Busomjack wrote...
Also, I do think Mass Effect 2 can be improved but Bioware should improve it by building upon Mass Effect 2's strengths which are every aspect of the game, storyline included.  I don't want them to repeat Mass Effect 2 in Mass Effect 3.  I just want to incorporate what made that game great and add a few new twists and fresh ideas, that's all.

Well then instead of whining about people who are just trying to make the game better by identifying aspects that aren't up the the bioware par, maybe you should focus your energy on improving the series, by praising the strengths and identifying the weaknesses.