292 réponses à ce sujet

[wulf3n]

Spornicus wrote...

I love how people argue personal opinion for 10+ pages, and after it's all said and done no one has changed their views in the slightest.

It's really about how much people can ignore "flaws' Some will pretend the bad stuff doesn't exist, while others try to hold bioware up to biowares own standards. and most in the middle.

Modifié par wulf3n, 02 décembre 2010 - 02:51 .

[Luigitornado]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

And you didn't get it.

May I ask who is you? To which you are refering, please?

Thank you in advance.

The Volus.

[Spornicus]

wulf3n wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

I love how people argue personal opinion for 10+ pages, and after it's all said and done no one has changed their views in the slightest.

It's really about how much people can ignore "flaws' Some will pretend the bad stuff doesn't exist, while others try to hold bioware up to their own standards. and most in the middle.

Oh no I'm not taking sides on this one. You can't be convinced that some of the "flaws" and "plotholes" you refer to actually aren't bad, or even flaws. You're just as stubborn and obstinate as the rest.

[Sneelonz]

Busomjack wrote...

How can you say Mass Effect 2 didn't have a satisfying conclusion? The collectors were committing mass genocide of the human race. That scene with the colonists being melted down into reaper goo was incredibly disturbing. I felt animosity towards the collectors and destroying their base was deeply deeply satisfying, even more so than destroying Sovereign.
The collectors were basically the Reaper's contingency plan and we foiled it. All those questions raised by posters earlier complaining about how things weren't explained regarding the reapers were meaningless. They didn't have to be explained since it could be figured out through simple conjecture.

Just think about it. Sovereign was the only reaper left in the galaxy and after he was destroyed the collectors try to build a new one. Does that really need further explanation? Isn't it obvious they're building a replacement for Sovereign? Is anyone really so naive to think the Reapers are stupid enough to just repeat the same mistake twice.

At the end of Mass Effect1 it seemed like the Reapers were screwed and I thought Mass Effect 2 made them seem very much like a viable threat still and by the end of Mass Effect 2 I felt the reapers have been slowed down but they're far from finished. A perfect PERFECT set up for mass Effect 3.

Your lack of satisfaction with the game is your fault, not the game's.

So, instead of fixing the reaper IFF...
the collectors build a new one? That looks like the terminator? 

Why?

[Sneelonz]

Busomjack wrote...

While Bioware is out it they should consider banning everyone who says that Mass Effect 2 is a disappointment.
This community should be for fans and fans alone and if you aren't a fan of Bioware's biggest franchise then you shouldn't be allowed to post here.

Oh god. You can't be serious. Being a fan doesn't mean that you have to love every single aspect of the game.

Modifié par Sneelonz, 02 décembre 2010 - 03:01 .

[Busomjack]

To Wolf..

No, I think the people who used to be here see that the horse is dead and that it's not worth kicking it anymore.  You're the one who said the missions were irrelevent and were complaining about "gaps in the plot" even though this is only the second part of a underlying trilogy which means as a rule it is of course going to have "gaps in the plot".  Those gaps are meant to be filled by Mass Effect 3.  The purpose of every conclusion in a trilogy is to bring closure to a saga.  You're not supposed to expect answers from the second game in the trilogy. 
As for my Star Wars reference.  It's anecdotal, you can take the middle movie in any interconnected trilogy and find that there are answers left unresolved.  Mass Effect from the very beginning was planned as a trilogy and you cannot say it's storyline is irrelevent without having played the third game and seeing how your choices and actions influence the world in that game.
The other aspects of the game's story are not excluded as you put it but as the second game in a trilogy it's more important for Mass Effect 2's plot to set up the stage for the final chapter in the trilogy, not come to any major resolutions in between and that is why the underlying plot is kept simple.  The Reapers use the Collectors as part of their contingency plan and you have to stop them.  That sounds simplistic and it is but it is the journey leading up to that conflict and all of the decisions you made which will influence Mass Effect 3 that will make Mass Effect 2's contribution to the Mass Effect saga so significant.  As I said before, it's impossible to know how "exclusionary" the plot of Mass Effect 2 is without first observing how it influences Mass Effect 3 since we're talking about one big story here that is told through three games.
As for the suicide mission.  It's true you don't need everyone in order to survive however the game's plot does such a good job at developing the characters that it is dreadful to think of even having one of them die.  Hell, I reset the game when Mordin died on my first playthrough.  Going into the suicide mission knowing that I could lose some of these awesome, diverse, personality rich characters had me very nervous and actually losing some had a strong emotional impact.

Modifié par Busomjack, 02 décembre 2010 - 02:59 .

[Luigitornado]

wulf3n wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

I love how people argue personal opinion for 10+ pages, and after it's all said and done no one has changed their views in the slightest.

It's really about how much people can ignore "flaws' Some will pretend the bad stuff doesn't exist, while others try to hold bioware up to biowares own standards. and most in the middle.

I'm sure everyone had something they disliked about the game, but acting as if the game has too many flaws to count is ridiculous. There is a difference between a nitpicky problem and a "flaw."

[ObserverStatus]

Spornicus wrote...

I love how people argue personal opinion for 10+ pages, and after it's all said and done no one has changed their views in the slightest.

When all is said and done, we'll know what's right what's wrong. But does it really matter than when all is said and done?

[Busomjack]

Sneelonz wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

While Bioware is out it they should consider banning everyone who says that Mass Effect 2 is a disappointment.
This community should be for fans and fans alone and if you aren't a fan of Bioware's biggest franchise then you shouldn't be allowed to post here.

Oh god. You can't be serious. Being a fan doesn't mean that you have to love every single aspect of a game.

I'm dead serious!  This game is one I will remember when I am on my deathbed 100 years from now and die peacefully knowing that the game graced my presence.
The fact that these people can't be grateful for such a masterful work of art is disgraceful!  They tarnish this forum with their presence, they should all be BANNED!

[Luigitornado]

Busomjack wrote...

Sneelonz wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

While Bioware is out it they should consider banning everyone who says that Mass Effect 2 is a disappointment.
This community should be for fans and fans alone and if you aren't a fan of Bioware's biggest franchise then you shouldn't be allowed to post here.

Oh god. You can't be serious. Being a fan doesn't mean that you have to love every single aspect of a game.

I'm dead serious!  This game is one I will remember when I am on my deathbed 100 years from now and die peacefully knowing that the game graced my presence.
The fact that these people can't be grateful for such a masterful work of art is disgraceful!  They tarnish this forum with their presence, they should all be BANNED!

Being a little crazy now. Might as well start calling them "heretics."  

...little joke to lighten the mood...

[Iakus]

Luigitornado wrote...

There is no doubt that Bioware will here some of the complaints and move on accordingly. Wanting more character/team interactions would be beneficial, and I wouldn't be surprised if they proceeded down that alley. Complaints about "superhero" outfits seem a little nitpicky. One way around that problem is offering similar customization to what they did with Shepard: have a base design and customize if from there.

I hope this turns out to be the case.  Heck that's most of the reason I'm here.  I want developers to look at these forums and go

"You know what, this iakus guy's on to something.  We kinda coasted story-wise on ME 2 and really need to pick it up on ME3.  We should send him a complimetary copy of the ME3 Collector's Edition as thanks"

Well, I can dream...

[Busomjack]

The companion interaction thing is blown way out of proportion. I bet most people didn't even notice it playing through the game, I know I didn't and even now that you've brought it up I still don't care.

[Spornicus]

If LotSB shut up all the Liara fans who complained about the lack of a romance, then ME3 should shut up the plothole people.

[SithLordExarKun]

Spornicus wrote...

If LotSB shut up all the Liara fans who complained about the lack of a romance, then ME3 should shut up the plothole people.

Liara fans are extremely creepy.

[wulf3n]

it's funny how some people seem to take the negative criticism as a personal attack.



Besides everyone here has said the game could have been better. What i don't get is why most people are willing to coddle bioware, rather than spurring them on to create even better games. you may think your helping telling bioware they can do no wrong, but that doesn't help. Constantly telling people what they could improve upon is what makes them better.



I weep for gaming when so many ppl are happy with "good enough".

[Busomjack]

IT IS A PERSONAL ATTACK! Mass Effect 2 had such an emotional and intellectual influence on my life that I consider the experience to be part of me and what defines me. To attack the game is to attack me personally and since personal attacks are against the forum rules you should be banned.



Every single game imaginable is going to have aspects which could be improved upon. Developing a game is something that requries time and resources, two factors which are always going to be finite so the best we can hope for with ANY game is that the developers make the most of the finite resources and development time they have and I as well as the overwhelming majority of the gaming community who love this game agree that expectations have either been met or surpassed.



Keep demanding perfection, I heard 3d Realms is hiring.

[Xeranx]

wizardryforever wrote...

Bravo!  This is exactly how I've felt for quite a while now, and every time I see a thread like this I'm tempted to post something similar.  But quite frankly I've grown tired of arguing the point, especially when smudboy still decided to bash every single aspect of the game that this forum is based on.

I'd add that I would be disappointed if all of the recruitment or loyalty missions had to do with the main plot.  Characters do have lives outside of the mission, they have concerns that may have nothing to do with the mission, that may have nothing to do with Shepard. 

Just wanted to reply to this as I have the rest of the thread to read.  I would be fine with recruitment of peple not having anything to do with the plot if there was a chance to fail at recruiting said people.  As it stands there is no way to mistakingly talk someone out of joining you on your mission.  I mean people turn you down if you were to go to their door and try and sell them a magazine subscription, but here you are virtually walking up to their door and selling them the very real possibility that they'll die if they join you on your quest and they just ask "where do I sign?".  Of course, this is a quest in which the logistics are unknown to you.

Considering all that I can't see how there can be a feeling of urgency towards stopping the collector threat when it's pretty much disconnected from you.  

[kmcd5722]

Busomjack wrote...

While Bioware is out it they should consider banning everyone who says that Mass Effect 2 is a disappointment.
This community should be for fans and fans alone and if you aren't a fan of Bioware's biggest franchise then you shouldn't be allowed to post here.

Please read: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb

Spornicus wrote...

I love how people argue personal opinion for 10+ pages, and after it's all said and done no one has changed their views in the slightest.

It's really too bad it has to be that way.

Anyways, in my opinion, I believe the heart of the issue is the fact many times ME2 really doesn't feel like a sequel, yet it was named such.  I loved meeting all the characters.  But I would have rather spent more time having the plot thicken for an epic conclusion rather than meeting all the characters for 40 hours.  So, really, maybe I would have liked half the characters, and twice the development towards learning more about the Reapers,  while having a plot that seems to lead to the third game.  I'm not claiming to know the answers; I'm not a writer or a developer.

I for one feel the plot of ME2 was just a distraction, it didn't really fit in the big picture of stopping the Reapers and trying to learn more about them.  Hell, for half the game, you assumed you were just stopping the Collectors to just stop the Collectors, not because of their ties with the Reapers.  

I am not saying I did not love ME2.  I did.  But I would have preferred this to be ME1.5 or something. Maybe I'm crazy.

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...

IT IS A PERSONAL ATTACK! Mass Effect 2 had such an emotional and intellectual influence on my life that I consider the experience to be part of me and what defines me. To attack the game is to attack me personally and since personal attacks are against the forum rules you should be banned.

Reminds me of sports fans that cry when they're team loses the grand final...even though they had nothing to do with the team getting there in the first place.

Busomjack wrote...
Every single game imaginable is going to have aspects which could be improved upon. Developing a game is something that requries time and resources, two factors which are always going to be finite so the best we can hope for with ANY game is that the developers make the most of the finite resources and development time they have and I as well as the overwhelming majority of the gaming community who love this game agree that expectations have either been met or surpassed.

Keep demanding perfection, I heard 3d Realms is hiring.

So instead of helping them utilize the finite resources most effectively you waste their time spamming "you guyz rock!" 
I'm somewhat contented by the fact that you're joking, but the fear does haunt the deepest, darkest depths of my brain that you're actually serious, and that this is a group i consider myself a part of 

Modifié par wulf3n, 02 décembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[Praetor Knight]

wulf3n wrote...

Besides everyone here has said the game could have been better. What i don't get is why most people are willing to coddle bioware, rather than spurring them on to create even better games. you may think your helping telling bioware they can do no wrong, but that doesn't help. Constantly telling people what they could improve upon is what makes them better.

There were clips I've seen somewhere on Youtube, where the people at Bioware talked about the Vision and Arc of the story they intended,

and with the plans of there always being a trilogy for Shep's story, the decision was made for the first two games as we've played through, with whatever lies ahead for ME3.

Also "no plan survives contact with the enemy," meaning that there were problems. From what I've gleaned from other posts and threads on this forum, Firewalker and LotSB had the vehicles as the dampers from being part of the game as originally intended,  for example, also it seems that there was a time constraint.

Please don't think this is an apologist position, I'm just sharing what I've learned and found out.

Really who would have known that Darth Vader was as wimpy and soft as he was in the three prequels, until they watched them?

[Busomjack]

Xeranx wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Bravo!  This is exactly how I've felt for quite a while now, and every time I see a thread like this I'm tempted to post something similar.  But quite frankly I've grown tired of arguing the point, especially when smudboy still decided to bash every single aspect of the game that this forum is based on.

I'd add that I would be disappointed if all of the recruitment or loyalty missions had to do with the main plot.  Characters do have lives outside of the mission, they have concerns that may have nothing to do with the mission, that may have nothing to do with Shepard. 

Just wanted to reply to this as I have the rest of the thread to read.  I would be fine with recruitment of peple not having anything to do with the plot if there was a chance to fail at recruiting said people.  As it stands there is no way to mistakingly talk someone out of joining you on your mission.  I mean people turn you down if you were to go to their door and try and sell them a magazine subscription, but here you are virtually walking up to their door and selling them the very real possibility that they'll die if they join you on your quest and they just ask "where do I sign?".  Of course, this is a quest in which the logistics are unknown to you.

Considering all that I can't see how there can be a feeling of urgency towards stopping the collector threat when it's pretty much disconnected from you.  

They're not joining you just because you ask them.  They're joining because they have a personal incentive to join.  Zaeed is a mercenary so he's getting paid.  Characters like Kasumi and Jack expect favors in return.  Garrus is your best buddy.  Grunt seeks to fight in order to better fullfill what he believes is his purpose, Mordin wants to stop the collectors because of what they did on Omega with the plague, Legion sees the Reapers as a threat to his kind, Tali wants to get in your pants, Samara is doing it because she is bound by oath, Thane is going to die and he basically has nothing to lose anyways, and as for Jacob and Miranda.  They're human and they know first hand what the collector threat means for their kind.

[Luigitornado]

kmcd5722 wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

While Bioware is out it they should consider banning everyone who says that Mass Effect 2 is a disappointment.
This community should be for fans and fans alone and if you aren't a fan of Bioware's biggest franchise then you shouldn't be allowed to post here.

Please read: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb

Spornicus wrote...

I love how people argue personal opinion for 10+ pages, and after it's all said and done no one has changed their views in the slightest.

It's really too bad it has to be that way.

Anyways, in my opinion, I believe the heart of the issue is the fact many times ME2 really doesn't feel like a sequel, yet it was named such.  I loved meeting all the characters.  But I would have rather spent more time having the plot thicken for an epic conclusion rather than meeting all the characters for 40 hours.  So, really, maybe I would have liked half the characters, and twice the development towards learning more about the Reapers,  while having a plot that seems to lead to the third game.  I'm not claiming to know the answers; I'm not a writer or a developer.

I for one feel the plot of ME2 was just a distraction, it didn't really fit in the big picture of stopping the Reapers and trying to learn more about them.  Hell, for half the game, you assumed you were just stopping the Collectors to just stop the Collectors, not because of their ties with the Reapers.  

I am not saying I did not love ME2.  I did.  But I would have preferred this to be ME1.5 or something. Maybe I'm crazy.

I don't know. I liked the twist in ME2...we knew the Reapers were involved, but just not sure how...then bam there it is. I feel as if ME2 was all about the Reapers...it might haven taken away any sort of  presence they would of had in ME3.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 02 décembre 2010 - 03:42 .

[Busomjack]

Go ahead and mock me if you want Wulf, I pity anyone who could not enjoy this game like I did.  I don't tell Bioware where to spend their resources because they obviously don't need my advice to make a great game and they CERTAINLY don't need yours.  

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...
Go ahead and mock me if you want Wulf, I pity anyone who could not enjoy this game like I did.  I don't tell Bioware where to spend their resources because they obviously don't need my advice to make a great game and they CERTAINLY don't need yours.  

You yourself have said ALL games could be better, so why not try and help them get better? As good as ME1 was, there was a lot of things that needed improvement. ME2 addressed some of these things. As good as ME2 was there are a lot of things that need improvement. so why not help by pointing out in a rational manner what you would like improved?

Pity me all you wan't but i go to sleep knowing i'm helping the industry evolve, rather than join in the massive victory w**k that seems to keep sprouting up.

[Busomjack]

wulf3n wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
Go ahead and mock me if you want Wulf, I pity anyone who could not enjoy this game like I did.  I don't tell Bioware where to spend their resources because they obviously don't need my advice to make a great game and they CERTAINLY don't need yours.  

You yourself have said ALL games could be better, so why not try and help them get better? As good as ME1 was, there was a lot of things that needed improvement. ME2 addressed some of these things. As good as ME2 was there are a lot of things that need improvement. so why not help by pointing out in a rational manner what you would like improved?

Pity me all you wan't but i go to sleep knowing i'm helping the industry evolve, rather than join in the massive victory w**k that seems to keep sprouting up.

Because Mass Effect 2 doesn't have any major flaws.  If the game's controls sucked, if it had terrible voice acting, or if it crashed every 30 minutes then those would be legitimate flaws and I would complain about it.  The things you brought up don't matter in the slightest.  That's why almost nobody else other than you has brought them up.  Most people do not care because the game is so excellent overall.