251 réponses à ce sujet

[Snoteye]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Complexity wise, it's the same.

Previously, you got +10 to approval or -10 to approval. Not you get +10 to approval or +10 to rivalry. But +10 to rivalry is mechanically the same as -10 to approval.

It's the difference between a graph that goes from 0 to 100 or a graph that goes from -50 to 50.

If it's one scale, yes. Has that been confirmed? Meseems that would defeat the purpose but I wouldn't be shocked if that were true.

[Winter Wraith]

Depending on the bonuses, if they vary between approval and rivalry, it may actually pay to make some into rivals deliberately.

[ErichHartmann]

DAOs approval system was trivialized by excessive gifts. I fail to see the complexity in that.

[Dave of Canada]

ErichHartmann wrote...

DAOs approval system was trivialized by excessive gifts. I fail to see the complexity in that.

Don't worry, here's a beef bone.

[upsettingshorts]

damocles23 wrote...

Friendship/Rivarly system? Why does it look so cool?

Because if you as the player genuinely disagree with the way your companions approach things, and it leads to a conflict, the system no longer forces or encourages you into pandering to them in order to earn their approval and unlock further conversations and gameplay bonuses.

And because at least from where I sit it will add to replayability, since both a Friendship and Rivalry will be supported by the game.

[Snoteye]

Am I the only one "rivalry" implies hostility to? I don't like that.

[Winter Wraith]

Snoteye wrote...

Am I the only one "rivalry" implies hostility to? I don't like that.

You can have a rivalry between two people that isn't hostile, simply that they both seek to outdo each other.

Can it easily become hostile? Yes.
Does it have to? No.

It really depends on if they are both enjoying the competition.

Modifié par Winter Wraith, 01 décembre 2010 - 08:42 .

[Snoteye]

Winter Wraith wrote...

You can have a rivalry between two people that isn't hostile, simply that they both seek to out do each other.

By the word's definition, certainly. I don't have faith that's how it'll work.

[Maria Caliban]

Snoteye wrote...

Am I the only one "rivalry" implies hostility to? I don't like that.

Yes. Then again, charismatic persuasion in DA:O is called 'coercion' and your character drinks 'poultices.'

[Winter Wraith]

Snoteye wrote...
By the word's definition, certainly. I don't have faith that's how it'll work.

It works as long as one doesn't constantly win; some people enjoy meeting somebody who can match them at something they are good at, it can be fun to be tested.

Modifié par Winter Wraith, 01 décembre 2010 - 08:54 .

[Maria Caliban]

ErichHartmann wrote...

DAOs approval system was trivialized by excessive gifts. I fail to see the complexity in that.

Assuming that's a response to my post...

Everything has a level of complexity. The system in DA:O might not have met a suitable level of complexity for you, but my post was that the one in DA 2 appears to be just as complex.

As for the dog bones: Complexity is not the same as difficulty.

Lifting a 500 pound weight is much harder than a 50 pound weight, but just as simple (or just as complex). Dog bones might make the system in DA:O easier than the one in DA 2, but it doesn't make it less complex (or more simple).

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 01 décembre 2010 - 08:57 .

[Leonia]

Snoteye wrote...

Am I the only one "rivalry" implies hostility to? I don't like that.

The rivalry between Gary and Ash wasn't hostile. Just saying.

Modifié par leonia42, 01 décembre 2010 - 10:48 .

[upsettingshorts]

I've never heard of Gary and Ash.  Ace and Gary on the other hand...

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 01 décembre 2010 - 10:53 .

[Leonia]

...from Pokemon. Every game had a PC and a rival. They weren't enemies, just rivals trying to out do each other.

[upsettingshorts]

leonia42 wrote...

...from Pokemon.

That would explain my ignorance.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Atakuma wrote...

They changed it to a friendship/rivalry system. They haven't removed it.

So how exactly does it work? At first when I heard that they ditched the aproval system I assumed that they were going to go with a system like what was in ME2 where you could be a total **** to a character without any consequences and whether they become loyal or not depends on the outcome of one mission.

Maria Caliban wrote...

Complexity wise, it's the same.

Previously, you got +10 to approval or -10 to approval. Not you get +10 to approval or +10 to rivalry. But +10 to rivalry is mechanically the same as -10 to approval.

It's the difference between a graph that goes from 0 to 100 or a graph that goes from -50 to 50.

Content wise, we have no idea.

That doesnt make much sense but from what I can make out from your post it works similar to the acumulation of fame and infamy points in Oblivion? So if you do an action a party member likes they get +10 approval yet if you do something they dont like they get +10 rivalry? So basically a companion with +10 approval and +10 rivalry would be the same as a party member in Origins having 0 approval (neutral)?

How is this different to the system in Origins? The only difference I can see is that instead of companions either liking or hating your character they either like or respect but disagree with Hawke?

[Cro5S]

Hawke seems to have a pretty rich back story. A family complete with brother and sister, he's also some form of champion and already has a love interest by what the current trailers tells us.

Before we can judge the impact of this design choice we gotta wait until we get some form of gameplay preview or just wait the meager few months for the game to come out. Bioware had little more than 1 year to finish this game so if it turns out well you gotta comment Bioware for being pushed by EA too the brink of slave labor.

[nightcobra]

Cro5S wrote...

Hawke seems to have a pretty rich back story. A family complete with brother and sister, he's also some form of champion and already has a love interest by what the current trailers tells us.
Before we can judge the impact of this design choice we gotta wait until we get some form of gameplay preview or just wait the meager few months for the game to come out. Bioware had little more than 1 year to finish this game so if it turns out well you gotta comment Bioware for being pushed by EA too the brink of slave labor.

the only backstory we know of hawke is that he/she and his/her family are from lothering and fled to kirkwall to flee from the blight.


hawke being a champion is what he'll/ she'll become according to your actions (you don't start as the champion)

that love interest (isabela) is optional as stated by david gaider and other developers.

[Cro5S]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Cro5S wrote...

Hawke seems to have a pretty rich back story. A family complete with brother and sister, he's also some form of champion and already has a love interest by what the current trailers tells us.
Before we can judge the impact of this design choice we gotta wait until we get some form of gameplay preview or just wait the meager few months for the game to come out. Bioware had little more than 1 year to finish this game so if it turns out well you gotta comment Bioware for being pushed by EA too the brink of slave labor.

the only backstory we know of hawke is that he/she and his/her family are from lothering and fled to kirkwall to flee from the blight.


hawke being a champion is what he'll/ she'll become according to your actions (you don't start as the champion)

that love interest (isabela) is optional as stated by david gaider and other developers.

Oh. Thanks for the heads up.
I just hope Bioware let's us flex our Hawke into the perfect or not so perfect image of what we perceive as a RPG character. Isabella looks awfully different from Origins, how'd you suppose they changed hair color back then? Oh wait withcraft.

[nightcobra]

Cro5S wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Cro5S wrote...

Hawke seems to have a pretty rich back story. A family complete with brother and sister, he's also some form of champion and already has a love interest by what the current trailers tells us.
Before we can judge the impact of this design choice we gotta wait until we get some form of gameplay preview or just wait the meager few months for the game to come out. Bioware had little more than 1 year to finish this game so if it turns out well you gotta comment Bioware for being pushed by EA too the brink of slave labor.

the only backstory we know of hawke is that he/she and his/her family are from lothering and fled to kirkwall to flee from the blight.


hawke being a champion is what he'll/ she'll become according to your actions (you don't start as the champion)

that love interest (isabela) is optional as stated by david gaider and other developers.

Oh. Thanks for the heads up.
I just hope Bioware let's us flex our Hawke into the perfect or not so perfect image of what we perceive as a RPG character. Isabella looks awfully different from Origins, how'd you suppose they changed hair color back then? Oh wait withcraft.

she was always a dark skinned brunnete, the lighting in the pearl made her look like a red-head though.

[Cro5S]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Cro5S wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Cro5S wrote...

Hawke seems to have a pretty rich back story. A family complete with brother and sister, he's also some form of champion and already has a love interest by what the current trailers tells us.
Before we can judge the impact of this design choice we gotta wait until we get some form of gameplay preview or just wait the meager few months for the game to come out. Bioware had little more than 1 year to finish this game so if it turns out well you gotta comment Bioware for being pushed by EA too the brink of slave labor.

the only backstory we know of hawke is that he/she and his/her family are from lothering and fled to kirkwall to flee from the blight.


hawke being a champion is what he'll/ she'll become according to your actions (you don't start as the champion)

that love interest (isabela) is optional as stated by david gaider and other developers.

Oh. Thanks for the heads up.
I just hope Bioware let's us flex our Hawke into the perfect or not so perfect image of what we perceive as a RPG character. Isabella looks awfully different from Origins, how'd you suppose they changed hair color back then? Oh wait withcraft.

she was always a dark skinned brunnete, the lighting in the pearl made her look like a red-head though.

Well by the maker.
Back to topic I do hope they make a better alternative, I do want to make my companions trust me by actually talking to them, maybe a little more deeper than ME2. A life of a Champion aint just all about the killing you know.

Modifié par Cro5S, 01 décembre 2010 - 01:13 .

[Cazlee]

The companion system in bioware games has been evolving to be better and more complex with each new rpg title. (except awakening!! that was horrible!) So I'm looking forward to seeing what new system they have up their sleeve for DA2.

Modifié par Cazlee, 01 décembre 2010 - 01:57 .

[David Gaider]

Pugnate wrote...
http://www.pcgamer.c...ero-of-kirwall/

Another complexity stripped away. So sad.

I always think it's lovely when people make declarative thread titles that are misleading, considering so many people won't read beyond that.

Anyhow... as has been mentioned already in this thread the approval system is indeed not removed. We've changed it to a friendship/rivalry system.

In essence, our issue was that negative approval was a "dead end"-- if a companion's approval lowered you got nothing for it in return. No gameplay bonuses, no dialogue and thus no relationship with the companion. That meant that trying to please your companion was the only "win" condition possible, and that wasn't really what we intended.

Thus "negative approval" now equals rivalry-- and has its own gameplay effects and dialogue. You still have a relationship with the follower, but its character is very different (and will vary according to the individual companion).

And that's fundamentally the only thing that's different about it.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Since that's been cleared up, maybe this is a good place for me to reiterate that the rivalry system is probably the thing I am most looking forward to in DA2. I would have loved to have that kind of option with Morrigan in the first game. (You can sort of almost have it with Sten, and I like that relationship a lot.)

[Sigil_Beguiler123]

David I am guessing you can't divulge much information on it but... Well with this bing essentially a different relationship and not just a dead end does this mean things like companion quests, companion specific gifts, etc. That there could be perhaps rivalry versions of those? I am not sure exactly how well it would work narratively but I am sure some stuff could be thought up.