387 réponses à ce sujet

[Piecake]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Video game occupy a strange position, having neither the descriptions of novels nor the acting of films. As an interactive medium it has advantages neither has, but it's the rare game that expores them.

After posting my fancy shmancy literary bit, ive started to wonder what a stream of consciousness video game would be like.  I could see it as some sort of murder mystery where you wake up in a hotel room in a drug induced haze with a hooker dead on the floor and the cops barring down the door, and its your job to figure out what the eff is going on.  I imagine that it would work out poorly for the lack of the aforementioned description and introspection.  Then again, i never particularly liked stream of consciousness and would take great pleasure if I found out that James Joyce was burning eternal

Upsettingshorts wrote...

/immediately runs off to rewatch the LA Noire trailer

Reminds me of LA Confidential.  Good movie

Modifié par Piecake, 02 décembre 2010 - 09:20 .

[pizoxuat]

shepard_lives wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The best suggestion I've heard so far is the appearance of the full-text when hovering over an option when the subtitles are turned on.

Quoted for truth. I've advocated this idea ever since the dialogue wheel was announced.

My teeth itch just thinking of devoting test time to something like this for the minority of people who want it.  This is not a cost-neutral solution.

Edit:  So, here's how it would likely go if this was implemented.  First, a UI developer would need to create the toggle mechanism.  Then a content developer would need to go through every single dialog in the game and truncate any dialog options that are longer than a single line, oh yeah, and let's not forget that the writers would have to come up with a standardized system for how to handle longer-than-subtitle dialogs and if there are plot-important actions, like murderknifing.  Then it would get sent to QA where every single dialog would have to be checked.  Any subtitle summaries of the dialog that over-run the space allowed by the UI for displaying text would have to be written up as a bug and kicked back to content development/the writers to handle because Bioware isn't a two-bit shop and wouldn't do something like this all sloppy.  Then every single time QA needs to run a smoke-test to make sure no systems are broken, this will have to be tested again.  Those kind of tests happen A LOT in the run-up to Gold, and the pressure to get them done faster also increases.

So it's a very easy thing to say "Oh, just make it a toggle."  It's not nearly so easy to deal with the reality of what you are asking for.

Modifié par pizoxuat, 02 décembre 2010 - 09:50 .

[RedRoo]

Piecake wrote...

After posting my fancy shmancy literary bit, ive started to wonder what a stream of consciousness video game would be like.  I could see it as some sort of murder mystery where you wake up in a hotel room in a drug induced haze with a hooker dead on the floor and the cops barring down the door, and its your job to figure out what the eff is going on.  I imagine that it would work out poorly for the lack of the aforementioned description and introspection.  Then again, i never particularly liked stream of consciousness and would take great pleasure if I found out that James Joyce was burning eternal

Indigo Prophecy is pretty good at that scenario in its opening bit. The first half of the game is brilliant-- then it takes a turn and you're left wondering what kind of acid the writers were doing.

I agree with your sentiments of Joyce, but only if you throw a Woolf in there for me. I still have night terrors over Mrs. Dalloway.

[Nighteye2]

Interesting how she speaks about having listened to community feedback. You wouldn't say, listening to community feedback on DA2...

[Bryy_Miller]

Most of the feedback about DA2 happened after DA2 was announced.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Nighteye2 wrote...

Interesting how she speaks about having listened to community feedback. You wouldn't say, listening to community feedback on DA2...

Sure they did, they listened to the console user part of the fanbase.

[Atakuma]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

Interesting how she speaks about having listened to community feedback. You wouldn't say, listening to community feedback on DA2...

Sure they did, they listened to the console user part of the fanbase.

God forbid they listen to the people who got the worst version of the game.

[Sylvius the Mad]

shepard_lives wrote...

This kind of surprised me, actually. I'd have thought you to be more along the lines of "either everyone is voiced or no one is".

Until I see a voiced PC done in a way that doesn't force my character to say things in ways I wouldn't have chosen, I will oppose a voiced PC.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Atakuma wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

Interesting how she speaks about having listened to community feedback. You wouldn't say, listening to community feedback on DA2...

Sure they did, they listened to the console user part of the fanbase.

God forbid they listen to the people who got the worst version of the game.

What did you expect the game was originally meant to be PC only to begin with, so odds are it would more than likely be best experienced on a PC.

I have zero against making the console versions of DA2 play a better game, zero. Its when the PC users ultimately suffer because of that, that I tend to get upset.

[Sylvius the Mad]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

It's not a death threat

How is that not a death threat?  It's a declarative sentence, containing a normative statement about what the speaker should do, and the action described is killing people.

It's the very definition of a death threat.  Nothing about the tone or delivery can change that.

[Tsuga C]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Until I see a voiced PC done in a way that doesn't force my character to say things in ways I wouldn't have chosen, I will oppose a voiced PC.

Here, here! 

Modifié par Tsuga C, 02 décembre 2010 - 10:21 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

That makes me think, I think in cRPGs we arrive at character concepts very differently. I sort of start with an idea, a very simple one, like: "doesn't take himself or life too seriously." And then my character is built through the options given to me by the game from that idea.

So when I go get Dog out of the larder, I might not have imagined that he'd sass Nan with the line given, but since that was the sass line, that's what my character goes with.  In many ways I played DA:O similarly to Mass Effect, in that I had an idea of which direction I'd be pointing the dialogue wheel, as it were, only it was a tree system and the options weren't labeled in the same way.  I still intended to choose from a more or less predetermined path, and that's always been my approach.

It's hard to explain, but I don't really build characters without parts actually supplied by the game. The notion that it - your character - simply isn't in conflict with the game and built from without isn't my approach to cRPGs. So in your Mass Effect example, that wasn't really the issue for me. In that sense, the silent protagonist doesn't add anything for me - it can only detract from my experience.

If I were to play that way, I wouldn't get anything enjoyable out of the game.

[upsettingshorts]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
If I were to play that way, I wouldn't get anything enjoyable out of the game.

Hence my whole theory on how the playstyles can't be reconciled.  I mean, it's certainly possible to create a game that accomodates both, but it wouldn't change either's mind, or be ideal for either - at some point, one or the other would be confronted with a feature that runs contrary to their preference or expectations.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 décembre 2010 - 10:17 .

[Cutlasskiwi]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

Interesting how she speaks about having listened to community feedback. You wouldn't say, listening to community feedback on DA2...

Sure they did, they listened to the console user part of the fanbase.

<_<
Well, I know a lot of people who played DAO on PC that complained about combat being to slow and not responsive enough (and I agree about that). And now they've changed the combat. I highly doubt they just listened to the 'console user part' of their fanbase. 

[Atakuma]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

What did you expect the game was originally meant to be PC only to begin with, so odds are it would more than likely be best experienced on a PC.

I have zero against making the console versions of DA2 play a better game, zero. Its when the PC users ultimately suffer because of that, that I tend to get upset.

Speak for yourself. I am a PC user and I like the majority of the changes.

[Ziggeh]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

It's not a death threat

How is that not a death threat?  It's a declarative sentence, containing a normative statement about what the speaker should do, and the action described is killing people.

It's the very definition of a death threat.  Nothing about the tone or delivery can change that.

It's delivered wearily, as one might an expression of frustration. You could take it literaly but you have to ignore the tone, the context and the fact that you've just clicked on "sigh". The langauge is full of non literal idioms and there are several tones which could significantly change the meaning, sarcasm being the better example.

But I think you know all that and are arguing semantics.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 02 décembre 2010 - 10:30 .

[upsettingshorts]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

How is that not a death threat?  It's a declarative sentence, containing a normative statement about what the speaker should do, and the action described is killing people.

It's the very definition of a death threat.

True.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Nothing about the tone or delivery can change that.

Not true.

And before this devolves into a discussion regarding error, or standards of evidence - I'll just say I'm not even going to go there.  To me, and to quite literally every person I've ever met that isn't Sylvius the Mad from Bioware Social Network, tone is extremely important - even if it is prone to misunderstandings and errors in interpretation.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 décembre 2010 - 10:33 .

[AlanC9]

pizoxuat wrote...
Edit:  So, here's how it would likely go if this was implemented.  First, a UI developer would need to create the toggle mechanism.  Then a content developer would need to go through every single dialog in the game and truncate any dialog options that are longer than a single line, oh yeah, and let's not forget that the writers would have to come up with a standardized system for how to handle longer-than-subtitle dialogs and if there are plot-important actions, like murderknifing.  Then it would get sent to QA where every single dialog would have to be checked.  Any subtitle summaries of the dialog that over-run the space allowed by the UI for displaying text would have to be written up as a bug and kicked back to content development/the writers to handle because Bioware isn't a two-bit shop and wouldn't do something like this all sloppy.  Then every single time QA needs to run a smoke-test to make sure no systems are broken, this will have to be tested again.  Those kind of tests happen A LOT in the run-up to Gold, and the pressure to get them done faster also increases.

So it's a very easy thing to say "Oh, just make it a toggle."  It's not nearly so easy to deal with the reality of what you are asking for.

That's all pretty accurate. Note that a lot of those costs can be reduced if you design around having the popup in the first place; truncation, for instance, becomes less of a development cost and more of a quality hit on the dialogs. So while I think the idea still fails on the merits, at least it's not inconceivable for DA3

[AlanC9]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

It's not a death threat

How is that not a death threat?  It's a declarative sentence, containing a normative statement about what the speaker should do, and the action described is killing people.

It's the very definition of a death threat.  Nothing about the tone or delivery can change that.

It's delivered wearily, as one might an expression of frustration. You could take it literaly but you have to ignore the tone, the context and the fact that you've just clicked on "sigh". The langauge is full of non literal idioms and there are several tones which could significantly change the meaning, sarcasm being the better example.

But I think you know all that and are arguing semantics.

I'm betting he's not. I believe Sylvius doesn't use irony himself, and may not perceive irony accurately when others use it.

But I must point out that "I should kill both you idiots"  -- that's still the phrase we're talking about, right? -- is probably not an actual death threat in any tone. If someone was planning to murder idiots would he actually tell them that he was planning to murder them? Possible, but unlikely. Someone who said this seriously would usually be saying it as a substitute for killing the idiots, because he's got some overriding reason for not killing the idiots. Of course, this means that the "should' isn't really correct, but that's how people use language ITRW.

[ENolan]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

Interesting how she speaks about having listened to community feedback. You wouldn't say, listening to community feedback on DA2...

Sure they did, they listened to the console user part of the fanbase.

I wish I added some feedback. But I was too shy to sign up before then.

[upsettingshorts]

It's also more than just the tone, it's the dismissive hand wave Shepard does as she says it - body language matters. Plus, considering the guy had already ordered his guards away, she could have shot him where he stood, then gone and killed Jahleed. But she throws up her hand in frustration instead of drawing her gun, and lets the guy speak.

It's aggressively dismissive, just like the wheel gives the impression it should be. I mean, it would be one thing to say the player didn't predict that Shepard would say what she said - and I can understand that being a deal breaker for some players, but the implication of the choice - Shepard would be extremely annoyed - is consistent with the result in that example.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 décembre 2010 - 11:08 .

[Chris Priestly]

Back on topic please.

[RedRoo]

Atakuma wrote...
 
Speak for yourself. I am a PC user and I like the majority of the changes.

I agree with you here-- I'm not quite sure how any of the changes made impact a PC gamer (myself included). None of the changes to the game affect how I physically play the game; the only thing that would categorically hurt would be a bonafide bad port. I have faith that the DA team won't let their fans down with a game that feels like a bad port. I get the feeling they wouldn't let themselves make a game that feels like a bad port even if they could.

On a personal level, I'm excited with the new changes, and agree with Heather that a voiced protagonist will be a good thing. DA's already showing that they understood the limitations of the system ME implemented, and are working to help the clarification issue of being "surprised" by the dialogue lines (I say "surprised" because a lot of the time when the ME blurbs didn't match up with what Shep says, it's because the dialogue line was railroaded. A lot of the dialogue was identical after your first encounter with the beacon for example, no matter which option you chose. So while you think you have a "nice" or "renegade" choice, you only ever have the one inevitable line, and thus the incongruity.) Giving the "shuffle-shuffle-slash" the boot makes me incredibly happy, too.

I hope Heather's been around to see the positive, glowing reviews she's getting from the community. Or, at the very least, someone's told her about it.

Modifié par RedRoo, 02 décembre 2010 - 11:23 .

[kingjezza]

Good interview.



Not all the changes suit me, I really dislike the rogue animations I've seen, all the flipping around like a ninja just looks silly to me but after listening to this interview I feel a lot more positive about the game, it's just about the first interview where I don't feel like I'm being talked to my some PR guy in a suit, her enthusiasm for the game shines through.



I'm definitely one of those who fall into the romancing Zevran accidentally camp, more than once, he's a sneaky one is that Zevran



In future I would just let Heather sell the game for you.

[Xewaka]

kingjezza wrote...

I'm definitely one of those who fall into the romancing Zevran accidentally camp, more than once, he's a sneaky one is that Zevran

In future I would just let Heather sell the game for you.

First time Zevran tried to hit on me, I picked the most jerkass-sounding "dude, quit it" dialogue choice available. I took a disapproval hit, but it worked like a charm. Ended up in the +90 appreciation anyway.