387 réponses à ce sujet

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Xewaka wrote...

kingjezza wrote...

I'm definitely one of those who fall into the romancing Zevran accidentally camp, more than once, he's a sneaky one is that Zevran

In future I would just let Heather sell the game for you.

First time Zevran tried to hit on me, I picked the most jerkass-sounding "dude, quit it" dialogue choice available. I took a disapproval hit, but it worked like a charm. Ended up in the +90 appreciation anyway.

I never understood how anyone can romance Zevran accidentally. Calling him a 'handsome elf' accidentlaly? 

[Sresla]

kingjezza wrote...

In future I would just let Heather sell the game for you.

Or un-sell, as the case may be. For myself, I found the interview to be rather insulting to Zevran fans. I wasn't excited about DA2 and if they're trying to "fix" things like Zevran's dialogue (which to me, was some of the best banter in the game overall, and not at all vague about his intentions if you chose the romance route as compared to other LI's) then they also just "fixed" themselves out of my $60. A drop in the bucket, I'm sure, but ALL the love interests have dialogue flaws (Leliana moreso than Zevran, actually) and why Zevran was used as an example when a generalization could have worked just as well...

[Atakuma]

Sresla wrote...

kingjezza wrote...

In future I would just let Heather sell the game for you.

Or un-sell, as the case may be. For myself, I found the interview to be rather insulting to Zevran fans. I wasn't excited about DA2 and if they're trying to "fix" things like Zevran's dialogue (which to me, was some of the best banter in the game overall, and not at all vague about his intentions if you chose the romance route as compared to other LI's) then they also just "fixed" themselves out of my $60. A drop in the bucket, I'm sure, but ALL the love interests have dialogue flaws (Leliana moreso than Zevran, actually) and why Zevran was used as an example when a generalization could have worked just as well...

seriously?

[TJPags]

Quite a number of people seem to have the Zev-ninja-romance issue. I've had it in just about every one of my games, and I've never tried to have it. Even knowing the dialogue, I still wind up with it. So it's not some "out there" statement to say it was a problem.



it has nothing to do with liking the Zev character, or not liking people who do like him. It's about initiating a romance when you want to, and not simply for saying "you're an okay guy".

[Crimson Invictus]

I'm sure Zevran won't take it personally.

[Bryy_Miller]

Atakuma wrote...

Sresla wrote...

kingjezza wrote...

In future I would just let Heather sell the game for you.

Or un-sell, as the case may be. For myself, I found the interview to be rather insulting to Zevran fans. I wasn't excited about DA2 and if they're trying to "fix" things like Zevran's dialogue (which to me, was some of the best banter in the game overall, and not at all vague about his intentions if you chose the romance route as compared to other LI's) then they also just "fixed" themselves out of my $60. A drop in the bucket, I'm sure, but ALL the love interests have dialogue flaws (Leliana moreso than Zevran, actually) and why Zevran was used as an example when a generalization could have worked just as well...

seriously?

That's.... wow. She should have also said "Tali is also not in Dragon Age 2".

[Sanctuary74]

Question, what are PR lines? Having dial-up, I cannot watch the video. Please and thank you.
oh and also, did she say anything about paraphrasing with the dialogue system?

Modifié par DalishAssassin, 03 décembre 2010 - 03:21 .

[Ziggeh]

Sresla wrote...

kingjezza wrote...

In future I would just let Heather sell the game for you.

Or un-sell, as the case may be. For myself, I found the interview to be rather insulting to Zevran fans. I wasn't excited about DA2 and if they're trying to "fix" things like Zevran's dialogue (which to me, was some of the best banter in the game overall, and not at all vague about his intentions if you chose the romance route as compared to other LI's) then they also just "fixed" themselves out of my $60. A drop in the bucket, I'm sure, but ALL the love interests have dialogue flaws (Leliana moreso than Zevran, actually) and why Zevran was used as an example when a generalization could have worked just as well...

I think you've misunderstood somewhat. They're not saying Zevran's dialogue was bad or that the romance itself was problematic in any way, they're saying that a number of the lines in the game led to unintended consequences. Zevran's dialogue is the example that has been most discussed because it led to you being hit on by a guy, something that will make a lot of guys uncomfortable (and people often deal with that by becoming angry).

They're "fixing" the issue by making intent explicit. It has little to do with Zevran.

[Addai]

Yeah I don't think anything was meant by the reference to Zevran. She could easily have said Leliana or even Alistair. I thought every femWarden got the rose before I learned otherwise on the forums (damn Chantry boy!), and Leliana, eep, if you tell her that you do in fact wear shoes it's a sign of true love apparently.

Anyway, despite my kvetching about this and that, I thought it was a very good interview. The devs all seem like sharp cookies, but it's nice to hear from someone who talks as though they're a player talking to another player.

Modifié par Addai67, 03 décembre 2010 - 04:22 .

[AlanC9]

Atakuma wrote...

Sresla wrote...

kingjezza wrote...

In future I would just let Heather sell the game for you.

Or un-sell, as the case may be. For myself, I found the interview to be rather insulting to Zevran fans. I wasn't excited about DA2 and if they're trying to "fix" things like Zevran's dialogue (which to me, was some of the best banter in the game overall, and not at all vague about his intentions if you chose the romance route as compared to other LI's) then they also just "fixed" themselves out of my $60. A drop in the bucket, I'm sure, but ALL the love interests have dialogue flaws (Leliana moreso than Zevran, actually) and why Zevran was used as an example when a generalization could have worked just as well...

seriously?

Well, Leliana's dialog for male LIs is a mess. I looked into fixing the bugs, but it's hard to even tell what the design intent was.

[ejoslin]

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Sresla wrote...

kingjezza wrote...

In future I would just let Heather sell the game for you.

Or un-sell, as the case may be. For myself, I found the interview to be rather insulting to Zevran fans. I wasn't excited about DA2 and if they're trying to "fix" things like Zevran's dialogue (which to me, was some of the best banter in the game overall, and not at all vague about his intentions if you chose the romance route as compared to other LI's) then they also just "fixed" themselves out of my $60. A drop in the bucket, I'm sure, but ALL the love interests have dialogue flaws (Leliana moreso than Zevran, actually) and why Zevran was used as an example when a generalization could have worked just as well...

seriously?

Well, Leliana's dialog for male LIs is a mess. I looked into fixing the bugs, but it's hard to even tell what the design intent was.

I fixed her, and I believe have her correct.  She had an auto-ninja-line, and of course her famous breakup when not in a relationship, but one conversation was such a mess, both with the dialog trees and with incorrectly coded flags -- I realized that certain lines most likely were only supposed to go to females, and was able to figure out a way to clean it up. However, the problems with Leliana were due to bugs, not picking lines and having them misinterpreted.

 Zevran always does confirm the warden's intention when starting the romance -- but his approval is much higher if you start it, so if someone isn't paying attention or is just going for maximum approval, they may find themselves in a romance with him.  But he was the absolute best about confirming intentions and such.  People also yelled about ending up in the tent with him, but again, he was very clear on his intentions with even that -- I think people just wanted that maximum approval.

Anyway, I also think using Zevran was a poor example and i understand why that would be offensive.  Alistair actually is not quite as clear as Zevran and does not always confirm that the romance is starting, but I don't think people complained as much about Alistair ninja romancing every female.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 03 décembre 2010 - 05:29 .

[AlanC9]

ejoslin wrote...
I fixed her, and I believe have her correct.  She had an auto-ninja-line, and of course her famous breakup when not in a relationship, but one conversation was such a mess, both with the dialog trees and with incorrectly coded flags -- I realized that certain lines most likely were only supposed to go to females, and was able to figure out a way to clean it up. However, the problems with Leliana were due to bugs, not picking lines and having them misinterpreted.

What was design intent for a male LI, anyway? It looked to me that there was an early on-ramp for the romance track and if you miss it you're screwed, since it's in a non-repeatable and early conversation ('m assuming the ninja line was a bug). And I didn't see any way for Leliana herself to bring the subject up, unlike the other three.

Modifié par AlanC9, 03 décembre 2010 - 07:13 .

[ejoslin]

AlanC9 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
I fixed her, and I believe have her correct.  She had an auto-ninja-line, and of course her famous breakup when not in a relationship, but one conversation was such a mess, both with the dialog trees and with incorrectly coded flags -- I realized that certain lines most likely were only supposed to go to females, and was able to figure out a way to clean it up. However, the problems with Leliana were due to bugs, not picking lines and having them misinterpreted.

What was design intent for a male LI, anyway? It looked to me that there was an early on-ramp for the romance track and if you miss it you're screwed, since it's in a non-repeatable and early conversation ('m assuming the ninja line was a bug). And I didn't see any way for Leliana herself to bring the subject up, unlike the other three.

There's a second way for her to start the romance for both males and females, but females can actually break up with her early and restart it but I believe men cannot; i have it set, though, that if a female warden tells her she's not into women, the romance cannot be started (I believe this is correct).  there's another line in the ninja conversation that is supposed to start the romance for males if the romance isn't cut off but it was broken.  I don't think males were supposed to get any comparison to Marjolaine at all in that conversation either.  The way I have it flows really well for both genders, and gives the conversation a much different feel for both.

Leliana was actually quite difficult to fix just because she has so many little problems in her dlg and in her scripts; i had to make new trees to get the dialog to trigger appropriately and fix quite a few of her flags, and just keeping them sorted out was a pain.  I get why the coders had problems with it. I have a standalone of my fixes to her called "Leliana Fixes' on DANexus, as well as it being a part of ZDF.

Modifié par ejoslin, 03 décembre 2010 - 11:22 .

[Andraste_Reborn]

I get why the coders had problems with it. I have a standalone of my fixes to her called "Leliana Fixes' on DANexus, as well as it being a part of ZDF.

Doubtless I will endorse your file on DANexus later, but can I just thank you now for making it? Somehow I'd managed to miss before that the Zevran dialogue fix repairs Leliana's ninja romance, and since I haven't played any characters lately who needed Zevran's dialogue to be fixed I hadn't downloaded it before.

Leliana ninja romancing my Warden was disconcerting, especially when I had to break up with her twice. (The Warden in question was sleeping with Alistair but pining after Sten. Most soap operatic play-through ever!)

Modifié par Andrastee, 03 décembre 2010 - 12:35 .

[sevalaricgirl]

I used to hate Zevran, but now I adore him (as a friend to my character only). There's a lot of things to really like about him. Being a female, I always romance Alistair. I have a thing for cute, naive blonde guys. I thought the graphics were very nice, loved the muted, DAO because that's how it would have looked back then. I've played the game 6 times and now I'm moving on to Elder Scrolls: Oblivion because I need a DAO break, not because I don't love it, but because I don't love the expansion or the DLC. Bioware really needed to work on that. I can't get past the first 10 minutes of Awakening without finding glaring flaws in it such as: I am the princess consort, married Alistair, and the female templar talks back to me and even talks back to Alistair the king when I conscript Anders. As the leader of the Grey Wardens, I would have killed her but that wasn't even an option, lol, as the Princess Consort, she would have been locked in the tower until she had a better attitude. Alistair kissed my character, his wife, on the cheek, huh, when in DAO, he kisses her on the lips. As the leader of the Grey, I didn't say anything about the keep when I slew all of the darkspawn and saved the seneschal. Also, the seneschal (sp) says that there is only 1 living Grey Warden in Fereldon. Did he forget about Alistair. Oh, Bioware, did you forget about Alistair when you made the expansion. Not all of us killed off Alistair. Hello Bioware. I did preorder DA II because my son wanted it and I hope that it's better than Awakening or he will be the only one playing it. I find no fault at all in DAO and will play it over and over again until I get those damned 10 garnets and have the ability to pick that damned lock in the Ban's estate at the end of crime wave. Those were the only two quests that I couldn't complete. Anyway, back to the game. I'll play it at least once because it is Bioware, but I am impatiently waiting for Mass Effect 3 and I would love Bioware to make a DAO 2 for us fans of the original team. My son and I even planned it out. They all get back together to find a cure for the calling and head to Orlais, Antiva and Tervinter. I'm sure that there are plenty of enemies to fight. Darkspawn are everywhere. Anyway, hoping that DA2 isn't a bust because I love the whole concept but one more thing, if Elder Scrolls can give you horses, what happened to Bioware. Like everyone in Fereldon walks everywhere, lol.

[Maria Caliban]

ejoslin wrote...

 Zevran always does confirm the warden's intention when starting the romance...

No, he doesn't. You can explicitly tell him that all you want is a one night stand and he decides you want a romance.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

Ahhhh, the varying definitions of "Romance"! *IS* a one-night-stand a Romance?

And who hasn't had another say one thing, but feel differently?

In fact, who has not, themself, said one thing but felt another? ;-)

Modifié par Thandal NLyman, 03 décembre 2010 - 02:49 .

[biostarfan]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Wait, the "fans" wanted a new graphic style and a new combat system? O_o

actually, if you listen closely she puts a tonal emphasis on the "we" when she says that the bioware team wanted to change the art direction and combat.she never says that the fans wanted the change.

[slimgrin]

I can't wait to try out the combat in this game. Responsive is good.

[ErichHartmann]

I can only speak for myself but I've always wanted faster combat animations and more responsive controls.

[biostarfan]

agreed with every one... she did an awesome job...unlike that blond who litterally summarized all the main DAII PR lines.

[ejoslin]

Andrastee wrote...

Doubtless I will endorse your file on DANexus later, but can I just thank you now for making it? Somehow I'd managed to miss before that the Zevran dialogue fix repairs Leliana's ninja romance, and since I haven't played any characters lately who needed Zevran's dialogue to be fixed I hadn't downloaded it before.

Leliana ninja romancing my Warden was disconcerting, especially when I had to break up with her twice. (The Warden in question was sleeping with Alistair but pining after Sten. Most soap operatic play-through ever!)

Gah, thank you.  The way I have Leliana fixed, it still is possible for her to ninja-romance a female warden, even one she's broken up with (this just is something that IS so Leliana), but it's also possible for it to never happen as long as you are clear with her the first time she flirts that she has the wrong idea about your warden.

Maria Caliban wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

 Zevran always does confirm the warden's intention when starting the romance...

No, he doesn't. You can explicitly tell him that all you want is a one night stand and he decides you want a romance.

Well, to have the ability to have sex with him, you have to have the romance open -- this is a game mechanic.  And that is not exactly what I meant.  What I meant was, you can say to him, and the first time it may not be clear, "Flirt I want you,' and he will answer, "oooh, you want me?" and then you have a chance to say, "oooh! that's not what I meant" if you actually didn't mean it that way.  

Also, if you tell Zevran you just want a one night stand, the romance ends.  If you tell him you just want to be FWB, at first it's fine as that is what he thinks he wants at first, but it grows into something more.  It happens.  That's an entirely different issue.  And when it grows into something more, it's pretty reasonable that he would want to break up if you still want it to stay casual.

It's not like with Alistair when, say, you tell him, "I like you, and not because of your blood," and suddenly your'e in a relationship.  Alistair has FAR more unclear romance starting lines, and not all have the, "Ooooh, you like me?" "Ooooh, that's not what I meant" out.  It's just that a group of people complained far louder about Zevran -- and those complaints were not always reasonable.

Edit: ANYWAY, I do think using Zevran was a bad example (like trying to soothe fears of the really loud screamers about that) and quite insensitive.  However, I did like that she didn't use marketing talk for the most part.

Modifié par ejoslin, 03 décembre 2010 - 04:08 .

[Maria Caliban]

ejoslin wrote...

Well, to have the ability to have sex with him, you have to have the romance open -- this is a game mechanic.

Right. Flirting = open romance. The problem is "I think you're cute" does not mean "I want a relationship with you."

Also, if you tell Zevran you just want a one night stand, the romance ends.

No, it doesn't. I know this because it's *exactly what I did* and he decided we were in a relationship. Now, after he decides you two are an item, you can also tell him that you're not interested and it was a one time thing.

If it were Alistair or Leliana that did this, I'd understand because Alistair is an inexperienced romantic and Leliana is a bit crazy. But when a companion tells you that they've slept around and when their background and personality suggests they're a bit of a Lothario, then you can't blame a player for thinking that an offer of no-strings-attached sex is exactly that. When he turns around and suggests you've led him on, it's a surprise.

Is it in character? Is it a bug? Is it bad design? Maybe. But it's still a surprise.

I had the same issue with Leliana. Still a surprise - I had no idea that my dipping in Morrigan's swamp would bother her so much.

[MIke_18]

Rabatich, is that Serbian?