387 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Well, to have the ability to have sex with him, you have to have the romance open -- this is a game mechanic.

Right. Flirting = open romance. The problem is "I think you're cute" does not mean "I want a relationship with you."

Also, if you tell Zevran you just want a one night stand, the romance ends.

No, it doesn't. I know this because it's *exactly what I did* and he decided we were in a relationship. Now, after he decides you two are an item, you can also tell him that you're not interested and it was a one time thing.

If it were Alistair or Leliana that did this, I'd understand because Alistair is an inexperienced romantic and Leliana is a bit crazy. But when a companion tells you that they've slept around and when their background and personality suggests they're a bit of a Lothario, then you can't blame a player for thinking that an offer of no-strings-attached sex is exactly that. When he turns around and suggests you've led him on, it's a surprise.

Is it in character? Is it a bug? Is it bad design? Maybe. But it's still a surprise.

I had the same issue with Leliana. Still a surprise - I had no idea that my dipping in Morrigan's swamp would bother her so much.

the romance is a game mechanic.  Honestly, though, if you're someone's lover, there IS a relationship there which is most likely a little deeper than a straight friendship.  Where exactly do you initiate a one-night-stand without the romance already being active?  You can't.  If you tell him it will never happen again after it happens (a real one night stand -- not a FWB situation), it ends the romance.  but when inviting him?  No.  you can make it clear that you just want sex, but not that it's just a one-night stand.  which is why he asks afterwards, "What now?" 

 I can't think of any dialog where he suggests you lead him on, though he ends up having to break up with the warden after a certain point if they don't return his feelings.  Again, not a bad thing.  It's an honest and painful moment -- he loves someone who doesn't love him back.

You CAN make it clear you want only FWB, and again, that's fine at the beginning of the relationship.  but his feelings deveolop.  This sounds more like you don't like that his feelings change and deepen, and you don't like that his romance also has him falling in love.  That's ok.  It's not for everyone.

It also is still not the issue i'm talking about.  I was talking about people who couldn't be bothered to actually listen to the dialog, missed the fact that Zevran actually would confirm that something was starting, and then scream when they ended up in the tent even though Zevran asks if it can go further than a massage.  And then an interview comes on that reassures the people who were screaming about it that it won't happen again.

Edit: People weren't understanding why that could be offensive and i was trying to explain why, not debate the merits of Zevran's relationship, which admittedly, is not for everyone.

Modifié par ejoslin, 03 décembre 2010 - 05:48 .

[Cutlasskiwi]

ErichHartmann wrote...

I can only speak for myself but I've always wanted faster combat animations and more responsive controls.

Agreed.

No more shuffling about..

[Eternal Phoenix]

shepard_lives wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Tho I never get the 'I accidently hit on Zevran' thing. Zevrans flirt options were all so obvious. And he was very easy to dissuade. Am I the only one who thought he was the one they clearly went out of their way to not be able to accidently romance?

Like I've written in other threads, insecure teenage males (and grown men too, I suspect) strike back.

"A gay man in my game? INCONCEIVABLE! *obligatory Vizzini pic here* His very existence threatens me! I demand he be removed at once!"

Okay, it was probably more like "wtf a ****got thats gross man", but you get my point.

Meh, if homophobes are gay, then you are homophobic for hating them. 

[Ziggeh]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Meh, if homophobes are gay, then you are homophobic for hating them.

Sense. You have not made it.

[Eternal Phoenix]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Meh, if homophobes are gay, then you are homophobic for hating them.

Sense. You have not made it.

A homophobe is someone who hates gays, by hating homophobes, who the OP said were gay, makes you a homophobe which makes you gay yourself - according to the OP's logic. Of course, that's just a lie. If someone doesn't want to have Zevran in their party because he is bisexual and gay for their character, then that's their choice.

Without further time, I leave this thread.

Farewell.

[Ziggeh]

Elton John is dead wrote...

A homophobe is someone who hates gays

Hah, well, thanks for clearing that part up at least.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 03 décembre 2010 - 07:52 .

[Piecake]

Elton John is dead wrote...

A homophobe is someone who hates gays, by hating homophobes, who the OP said were gay, makes you a homophobe which makes you gay yourself - according to the OP's logic. Of course, that's just a lie. If someone doesn't want to have Zevran in their party because he is bisexual and gay for their character, then that's their choice.

Without further time, I leave this thread.

Farewell.

He never said that homophobes were homosexual, and even if he did your claim doesnt make sense because not all homosexuals are homophobes.

[Nighteye2]

Piecake wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

A homophobe is someone who hates gays, by hating homophobes, who the OP said were gay, makes you a homophobe which makes you gay yourself - according to the OP's logic. Of course, that's just a lie. If someone doesn't want to have Zevran in their party because he is bisexual and gay for their character, then that's their choice.

Without further time, I leave this thread.

Farewell.

He never said that homophobes were homosexual, and even if he did your claim doesnt make sense because not all homosexuals are homophobes.

Besides, the -phobe comes from the greek Phobos, meaning fear. And ****** actually means 'the same', as in homogenous. So a homophobe is someone who fears things that are the same.

[Maria Caliban]

Listen... All rodents are *mammals*, but a weasel *isn't a rodent*, so it can't be a mammal.

While I'm at it, awe is an overwhelming feeling of wonder or admiration. -ful is a suffix used to refer to something as being full of something, characterized by or given, able and tending to be something.

Thus if something is 'awful,' it means it fills you with wonder or admiration.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 03 décembre 2010 - 08:03 .

[ErichHartmann]

The tangents threads weave never cease to amaze me.

[Piecake]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Listen... All rodents are *mammals*, but a weasel *isn't a rodent*, so it can't be a mammal.

*head explodes*

[Apollo Starflare]

Me reading this thread:

[Atakuma]

Don't do drugs kids.

[JamieCOTC]

Good interview!!

[TMZuk]

No, they aren't dumbing the game down, not at all, no. They are just making it...uhhh.... cleaner...more obvious.... spoon-feeding it, bending it in neon, and hammering it in with seven inch nails in case you still didn't get it.

But not dumbing it down, nooo!

How dare you, Bioware? In DA:O you actually demanded that people sometimes would have to think for themselves? Good thing you have changed that in DA2 with big easily read letters in flashy colours, indicating clearly that you are now being whatever it is you are being.

How could anyone with half a brain accidently romance Zevran, unless it was because they were terrified of taking an approval hit? Doh!

Modifié par TMZuk, 04 décembre 2010 - 01:23 .

[Atakuma]

TMZuk wrote...



No, they aren't dumbing the game down, not at all, no. They are just making it...uhhh.... cleaner...more obvious.... spoon-feeding it, bending it in neon, and hammering it in with seven inch nails in case you still didn't get it.

But not dumbing it down, nooo!

How dare you, Bioware? In DA:O you actually demanded that people
sometimes would have to think for themselves? Good thing you have
changed that in DA2 with big easily read letters in flashy colours,
indicating clearly that you are now being whatever it is you are being.

How could anyone with half a brain accidently romance Zevran, unless it was because they were terrified of taking an approval hit? Doh!

Yes, because choosing a sentence from a list is just the epitome of intelectual gaming.

[TMZuk]

Atakuma wrote...

TMZuk wrote...



No, they aren't dumbing the game down, not at all, no. They are just making it...uhhh.... cleaner...more obvious.... spoon-feeding it, bending it in neon, and hammering it in with seven inch nails in case you still didn't get it.

But not dumbing it down, nooo!

How dare you, Bioware? In DA:O you actually demanded that people
sometimes would have to think for themselves? Good thing you have
changed that in DA2 with big easily read letters in flashy colours,
indicating clearly that you are now being whatever it is you are being.

How could anyone with half a brain accidently romance Zevran, unless it was because they were terrified of taking an approval hit? Doh!

Yes, because choosing a sentence from a list is just the epitome of intelectual gaming.

It demands you:

1. Read the sentences.

2. Attempt to understand how they could affect the person your character is in dialogue with.

3. Choose one that is closest to fit what it is you wish to convey.

That is quite intellectual compared to just clicking "red", "red", "red".....

[Atakuma]

TMZuk wrote...

It demands you:

1. Read the sentences.

2. Attempt to understand how they could affect the person your character is in dialogue with.

3. Choose one that is closest to fit what it is you wish to convey.

That is quite intellectual compared to just clicking "red", "red", "red".....

you still have do to all those things, there is no "red" option.

[TMZuk]

Atakuma wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

It demands you:

1. Read the sentences.

2. Attempt to understand how they could affect the person your character is in dialogue with.

3. Choose one that is closest to fit what it is you wish to convey.

That is quite intellectual compared to just clicking "red", "red", "red".....

you still have do to all those things, there is no "red" option.

No you don't. Your intent, aggressive, sarcastic or pleasant, will be clearly marked. Confirmed by Bioware many times.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

TMZuk wrote...
It demands you:

1. Read the sentences.

2. Attempt to understand how they could affect the person your character is in dialogue with.

3. Choose one that is closest to fit what it is you wish to convey.

That is quite intellectual compared to just clicking "red", "red", "red".....

Yeah, the sarcasm really elevates the level of discussion. 

And for those of us who have done all of the above and had the disconcerting experience of getting almost the opposite result from that which was intended/expected because of the lack any indication of the "tone" with which the dialogue was going to be delivered...  Welll, the current system leave something to be desired.  A system that provides that additional (and, I would argue, CRUCIAL) information would constitute an IMPROVEMENT in my eyes.

The amount of additional "stage direction" that would have to be worked into the "line" in order to convey this level of detail would cause it to fail as dialogue.  Having to figure out what the NPCs mean by what THEY say, is just part of the game.  (Sometimes, being surprised is fun!)  Having to figure out what *I* mean... shouldn't be.

Modifié par Thandal NLyman, 04 décembre 2010 - 01:52 .

[Piecake]

TMZuk wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

It demands you:

1. Read the sentences.

2. Attempt to understand how they could affect the person your character is in dialogue with.

3. Choose one that is closest to fit what it is you wish to convey.

That is quite intellectual compared to just clicking "red", "red", "red".....

you still have do to all those things, there is no "red" option.

No you don't. Your intent, aggressive, sarcastic or pleasant, will be clearly marked. Confirmed by Bioware many times.

I really don't understand how that elimiates 2 and 3, and personally, ill still be reading the paraphrase. 

But hey, if you want to press buttons willy-nilly then go for it

[TMZuk]

Obviously none of you have ever had people misunderstanding you in real life? Misunderstandings are bound to happen in a form of communication as flawed as speech. I never had any serious problems in DA:O, except when communicating with Wynne as a human noble, as there was no option to tell her that she was a preachy, sanctimonious old bat.



In ME2, however, I was often frustrated that the paraphrasing was plain silly, and often made worse by the VA.



And sarcasm is amusing. Much more so that name-calling and arguments.

[TJPags]

Piecake wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

It demands you:

1. Read the sentences.

2. Attempt to understand how they could affect the person your character is in dialogue with.

3. Choose one that is closest to fit what it is you wish to convey.

That is quite intellectual compared to just clicking "red", "red", "red".....

you still have do to all those things, there is no "red" option.

No you don't. Your intent, aggressive, sarcastic or pleasant, will be clearly marked. Confirmed by Bioware many times.

I really don't understand how that elimiates 2 and 3, and personally, ill still be reading the paraphrase. 

But hey, if you want to press buttons willy-nilly then go for it

But if he presses a button, something awesome will happen!!!!!!

PS - I'm not a fan of a dialogue wheel.  But I did like the interview.  And I don't feel like being more informative at this time.

[Ziggeh]

TMZuk wrote...
In ME2, however, I was often frustrated that the paraphrasing was plain silly, and often made worse by the VA.

Both systems are prone to similar flaws.

Neither is "better", only preferable. Which you prefer will depend upon the approach you take to rpg's.

This point is raised so often, thought I'd cut to the end of the conversation.

[Cyberfrog81]

DAO had very good dialogue, but a lame dialogue system. I don't really know if the new one is an improvement yet, but I'm glad they're trying.