387 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

TMZuk wrote...

Obviously none of you have ever had people misunderstanding you in real life?

I'm not my character. My PC has a Coercion of 4. That makes her one of the most silver-tongued, charismatic, and persuasive people in existence. If an NPC doesn't understand me, it should be because they're stupid, not because I didn't express myself in a clear and articulate manner. Or worse, I somehow conveyed a meaning I didn't intend to.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 04 décembre 2010 - 05:12 .

[AlanC9]

TMZuk wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

It demands you:

1. Read the sentences.

2. Attempt to understand how they could affect the person your character is in dialogue with.

3. Choose one that is closest to fit what it is you wish to convey.

That is quite intellectual compared to just clicking "red", "red", "red".....

you still have do to all those things, there is no "red" option.

No you don't. Your intent, aggressive, sarcastic or pleasant, will be clearly marked. Confirmed by Bioware many times.

Sure, but you still have to do step 2. How a sarcastic line affects an NPC will depend both on who you're talking to and what you're being sarcastic about. Knowing a line is pleasant doesn't tell you what your character is being pleasant about. Knowing a line is aggressive doesn't tell you what you PC is threatening to do.

I can't speak for the ME2 haters myself, obviously, but when someone really dislikes that dialog system it often turns out that he was trying to play it the way TMZuk suggests DA2 will be played, by prioritizing tone over paraphrase. People who like the system tend to reverse those priorities. What I take away from this is that playing primarily by tone doesn't work.

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 décembre 2010 - 05:24 .

[adembroski11]

wait... they removed the option to accidentally flirt with Zevran?!?!

[Onyx Jaguar]

Damn game is really getting too fantastical for my tastes, in real life I flirt with people just by saying Hello somehow. So I never say hello, I just kill people WITH MY MIND

[Piecake]

how YOU doin

[Cutlasskiwi]

TMZuk wrote...



No, they aren't dumbing the game down, not at all, no. They are just making it...uhhh.... cleaner...more obvious.... spoon-feeding it, bending it in neon, and hammering it in with seven inch nails in case you still didn't get it.

But not dumbing it down, nooo!

How dare you, Bioware? In DA:O you actually demanded that people sometimes would have to think for themselves? Good thing you have changed that in DA2 with big easily read letters in flashy colours, indicating clearly that you are now being whatever it is you are being.

How could anyone with half a brain accidently romance Zevran, unless it was because they were terrified of taking an approval hit? Doh!

Wow. I'm just wondering where you got your advanced copy of DA2 since you seem to know everything about the game.. 

[Shepard Lives]

This whole debate about the dialogue icons baffles me.
Did the lack of icons in DAO make the game more complicated? Does the presence of icons somehow restrict dialogue options or NPC reactions?
I am certain intent icons - peaceful, angry, flirty, sarcastic - could be applied to pretty much every DAO dialogue. Think about it.
If you guys think that dialogue icons make the game too accessible, thus robbing you of your chance to feel like the member of an elite, just slap a piece of paper on your monitor in correspondence of the center of the wheel.
There, I solved the whole debate.

Also, another thing. If my argumentations aren't enough, do remember that DAII has no Paragon/Renegade meter. The game will still have that grey-and-gray morality we liked so much in the first episode. It'll be quite a bit different from Mass Effect.

Modifié par shepard_lives, 04 décembre 2010 - 02:16 .

[TJPags]

shepard_lives wrote...

This whole debate about the dialogue icons baffles me.
Did the lack of icons in DAO make the game more complicated? Does the presence of icons somehow restrict dialogue options or NPC reactions?
I am certain intent icons - peaceful, angry, flirty, sarcastic - could be applied to pretty much every DAO dialogue. Think about it.
If you guys think that dialogue icons make the game too accessible, thus robbing you of your chance to feel like the member of an elite, just slap a piece of paper on your monitor in correspondence of the center of the wheel.
There, I solved the whole debate.

Also, another thing. If my argumentations aren't enough, do remember that DAII has no Paragon/Renegade meter. The game will still have that grey-and-gray morality we liked so much in the first episode. It'll be quite a bit different from Mass Effect.

Speaking for myself, I don't mind the 'intent emoticons' so much as I mind the paraphrase.  Also, as someone who never played ME or ME2, talking about "paragon-renegade' means almost nothing to me, really.

[javierabegazo]

I'm not sure if this has been asked, but is what we're hearing, music wise, in the video, is this a peek at the DA2 Soundtrack? Has anyone talked about this?



If so, I like where it is going. Its very somber, and has nice mysterious flute trills

[slimgrin]

Yeah the music is very cool, I hope that's what it's like in the game.

[DarthCaine]

What I've heard of the music so far sounds like a big improvement over DAO's generic repetative bland music (definitely the worst part of the game)

[AlanC9]

TJPags wrote...

Speaking for myself, I don't mind the 'intent emoticons' so much as I mind the paraphrase.  Also, as someone who never played ME or ME2, talking about "paragon-renegade' means almost nothing to me, really.

Well, the important thing is that Paragon/Renegade did in ME what tone will do in DA. The concepts aren't exactly coherent, but Paragon choices tended to be co-operative and conciliatory while Renegade choices were more aggressive.

From what I've seen Renegade is more problematic since it seems to stand for both ruthless efficiency and impulsive violence, which aren't the same thing at all.

[javierabegazo]

DarthCaine wrote...

What I've heard of the music so far sounds like a big improvement over DAO's generic repetative bland music (definitely the worst part of the game)

I think the main DAO theme isn't bland, but it was kind of overdone, and was threaded into much of the OST. I liked the part where they had the woman singing though. I want more haunting melodies

[Absafraginlootly]

Did she remind anyone else of Felicia Day? Just in her sorta manor? Also reminded me abit of codex.



No? Just me then.

[TMZuk]

Yellow Words wrote...

TMZuk wrote...



No, they aren't dumbing the game down, not at all, no. They are just making it...uhhh.... cleaner...more obvious.... spoon-feeding it, bending it in neon, and hammering it in with seven inch nails in case you still didn't get it.

But not dumbing it down, nooo!

How dare you, Bioware? In DA:O you actually demanded that people sometimes would have to think for themselves? Good thing you have changed that in DA2 with big easily read letters in flashy colours, indicating clearly that you are now being whatever it is you are being.

How could anyone with half a brain accidently romance Zevran, unless it was because they were terrified of taking an approval hit? Doh!

Wow. I'm just wondering where you got your advanced copy of DA2 since you seem to know everything about the game.. 

What excactly in my post is something that has not been confirmed by Bioware?

[upsettingshorts]

TMZuk wrote...

What excactly in my post is something that has not been confirmed by Bioware?

Hm, hard to say -  I can't translate your post's nonsense into actual game features. 

[TMZuk]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

What excactly in my post is something that has not been confirmed by Bioware?

Hm, hard to say -  I can't translate your post's nonsense into actual game features. 

No? Well, in that case you'll love the new direction of spoon-feeding, then. If you don't understand the question, then don't bother with a reply.

[upsettingshorts]

Then by all means good sir, link me to the post where the devs confirmed the addition of neon and seven-inch nails to Dragon Age 2! I await your glorious, spoon-fed enlightenment!

This thinking stuff is so dreadfully frightening!

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 05 décembre 2010 - 03:04 .

[Shepard Lives]

TMZuk wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

What excactly in my post is something that has not been confirmed by Bioware?

Hm, hard to say -  I can't translate your post's nonsense into actual game features. 

No? Well, in that case you'll love the new direction of spoon-feeding, then. If you don't understand the question, then don't bother with a reply.

I'm pretty sure that terms like "spoon-feeding" and all that fall under Subjective, not Confirmed by Bioware.

The dialogue icons have been confirmed. The fact that the aforementioned icons will, through some dark force, make the game less enjoyable, hasn't. Nor will it ever be.

Modifié par shepard_lives, 05 décembre 2010 - 03:11 .

[TMZuk]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Then by all means good sir, link me to the post where the devs confirmed the addition of neon and seven-inch nails to Dragon Age 2! I await your glorious, spoon-fed enlightenment!

This thinking stuff is so dreadfully frightening!

I am sorry if my use of metaphors is straining your ability to understand. Let me clarify, then:

Bioware has confimed that the tone of your paraphrased reply will be made clear with icons, that will represent a friendly, sarcastic or aggresive tone.

This done in order to avoid misunderstandings, such as "accidently" romancing Zevran in the first game, apparantly a big issue for some players, believe it or not.

I am terribly sorry if you are unable to see how this translates into my earlier post. If you don't consider this dumbing down, I am not certain what you'd consider dumbing down. However, I do!

Modifié par TMZuk, 05 décembre 2010 - 03:22 .

[Shepard Lives]

TMZuk wrote...

I am sorry if my use of metaphors is straining your ability to understand. Let me clarify, then:
Bioware has confimed that the tone of your paraphrased reply will be made clear with icons, that will represent a friendly, sarcastic or aggresive tone.
This done in order to avoid misunderstandings, such as "accidently" romancing Zevran in the first game, apparantly a big issue for some players, believe it or not.
I am terribly sorry if you are unable to see how this translates into my earlier post. If you don't consider this dumbing down, I am not certain what you'd consider dumbing down. However, I do!

I lost any possible respect I might have had for your response after reading the first phrase.
You, sir, are a cruel and hateful person. Goodbye.

[upsettingshorts]

TMZuk wrote...

I am sorry if my use of metaphors is straining your ability to understand. Let me clarify, then:

I wanted you to spell it out so I could challenge your silly, specious arguments directly without addressing your terrible metaphor.  Thanks for complying.

TMZuk wrote...

Bioware has confimed that the tone of your paraphrased reply will be made clear with icons, that will represent a friendly, sarcastic or aggresive tone.

This done in order to avoid misunderstandings, such as "accidently" romancing Zevran in the first game, apparantly a big issue for some players, believe it or not.

That was just one example they used.  The reason they implemented the intent icons was, I believe, due to a common criticism of Mass Effect 1-2's system in which many players found themselves surprised by Shepard's delivery of their chosen paraphrase.  Since DA:2 uses a paraphrase system, there is even less information through which to glean the intent of the line than there was in DA:O, which provided the whole line.  The icons are an attempt to give the player more information than a Mass Effect-copied paraphrased system does, thus giving the player more to consider. 

Put it more simply:  DA:O gave the player the line, but not the tone or intent.  Mass Effect gave the player the intent, but not the tone or line.  DA:2 gives the player the tone and the intent, but not the line.  What's "dumb" about that?

TMZuk wrote...

I am terribly sorry if you are unable to see how this translates into my earlier post. If you don't consider this dumbing down, I am not certain what you'd consider dumbing down. However, I do!

That's your second "apology."  Maybe I'm reading in to things a bit but that comes off as patronizing, but how would I know?  To answer your question though, I do not consider it dumbed down, no.  The player still has the same number of options, at least in theory, as in DA:O, and is still making informed choices.  The DA:2 system gives more information on intent and tone, the DA:O system gives the line without intent or tone.  Neither strikes me as more inherently prone to error, nor do I believe DA:O's dialogue setup is by implication "smarter" than DA:2's.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 05 décembre 2010 - 03:28 .

[TMZuk]

shepard_lives wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

I am sorry if my use of metaphors is straining your ability to understand. Let me clarify, then:
Bioware has confimed that the tone of your paraphrased reply will be made clear with icons, that will represent a friendly, sarcastic or aggresive tone.
This done in order to avoid misunderstandings, such as "accidently" romancing Zevran in the first game, apparantly a big issue for some players, believe it or not.
I am terribly sorry if you are unable to see how this translates into my earlier post. If you don't consider this dumbing down, I am not certain what you'd consider dumbing down. However, I do!

I lost any possible respect I might have had for your response after reading the first phrase.
You, sir, are a cruel and hateful person. Goodbye.

I am sorry, I forgot to clarify whom I was responding to. My reply was not directed at you.

[Shepard Lives]

edit, nvm

Modifié par shepard_lives, 05 décembre 2010 - 03:29 .

[TMZuk]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

That's your second "apology."  Maybe I'm reading in to things a bit but that comes off as patronizing, but how would I know?  To answer your question though, I do not consider it dumbed down, no.  The player still has the same number of options, at least in theory, as in DA:O, and is still making informed choices.  The DA:2 system gives more information on intent and tone, the DA:O system gives the line without intent or tone.  Neither strikes me as more inherently prone to error, nor do I believe DA:O's dialogue step is by implication "smarter" than DA:2's.  

Then we'll simply have to agree on disagreeing. I seriously disliked the paraphrasing in the ME-games, and having "intent" icons isn't going to make it any better. It's going to create a third-person experience, an interactive movie, rather than an RPG.

As to me being patronizing, why yes, you got that right. Perhaps if you go back and read your own posts, it will be clear to you why I chose the "sarcastic" icon in my replies to you.

Modifié par TMZuk, 05 décembre 2010 - 03:33 .