86 réponses à ce sujet

[Dionkey]

Let me explain. As we have flown across The Milky Way chasing down baddies and doing Tims errands, we have never really seen TRUE emotion out of Shepard. Its the kind of stuff you expect out of any space epic. We have been given explanations to why Shep is such a rock hard dude (He has been through alot, survived prothean visions, yadda yadda) but is this just Bioware finding reasons to keep the plot on rail and devote less resources or is it to lead up to something greater where Shepard will finally show some doubt? Metal Gear Solid 4 did a great job of illustrating this. Snake was consistantly dealing with stress of old age and of battle. I found that Kojima delivered a very strong vibe throughout the game and never wavered. I find it a little insulting that Bioware doesn't factor these in or makes it seem like we don't care. They have very cliche emotions and never expand upon them.

I can think of only one time when Shepard has shown some doubt about the mission and that was during LOTSB in your quarters with Liara, and that was so forced. I would love to see in Mass Effect 3 how even the best choices have massive concequences not only on a large scale, but how Shepard deals with them. If you do poorly on keeping morale and cause consistant dilemas you will have Shepards dialouge change a little bit, almost shifting the spectrum rather than the player just choosing the one tree of dialouge. The current speech options right now are as follows:

Goody Two Shoes - Calm,Collected, Kind, and keeps control with charm
Neutral - Leans a little to the Paragon side however
Racist,bigoted douche,sacrifices anything - Can keep situation under wraps with force

This is the problem though, none of them reflect real emotion! They display highschool character types that all follow by one code: Be a badass, get the job done, and be rude to certain people. All I ask is that Shepard shows some real stress from the coming invasion. They could have the post quest intermissions with the crew and that could be a timeline to progress along where you could reflect upon the consequences of your choices and flesh out some real problems Shep has. They have done it well with the crew and their loyalty missions, but Shepards leader figure is too cliche and makes it seem like he is the black sheep out of them all.

Sorry for the long wall of text and would love to hear your opinions on this. 

[Fiery Phoenix]

My opinion is your opinion. We do need more of this.

I didn't think the instance in LOTSB felt forced, though. If anything, it felt more spot-on and exactly the kind of thing you'd expect Liara to ask. Shepard is finally human again in LOTSB, and that's a great thing.

I believe ME3 should have more such scenes than ME1 and ME2 combined. It's the end of the trilogy, and Shepard is supposed to be carrying all kinds of burdens on her shoulders. Showing emotion and physiological stress is anything but unnecessary.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 02 décembre 2010 - 06:34 .

[Dionkey]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

My opinion is your opinion. We do need more of this.

I didn't think the instance in LOTSB felt forced, though. If anything, it felt more spot-on and exactly the kind of thing you'd expect Liara to ask. Shepard is finally human again in LOTSB, and that's a great thing.

I believe ME3 should have more such scenes than ME1 and ME2 combined. It's the end of the trilogy, and Shepard is supposed to be carrying all kinds of burdens on her shoulders. Showing emotion and physiological stress is anything but unnecessary.

See with LOTSB I certainly think it is going in the right direction but I thought it was a little to late for ME2. ME3 needs to take LOTSB and improve upon ME2 with it. I totally agree with having more scenes. I don't remember one part in ME2 where you saw something absolutely massive like Soverign on Eden Prime. If we could have scenes like that where Shepard realizes the odds and acts under pressure would be amazing.

Eli-da-Mage wrote...

While I do agree with you, I think
some of the fans who's Shepards are unflinching badasses who never show
emotion and live only to kill people and blow crap up might be
displeased.

Well BW did change ME2 towards that kind of audience, lets hope they realize the fans are what built them by the time 3 is out.

[Dionkey]

Dionkey wrote...
Well BW did change ME2 towards that kind of audience, lets hope they realize the fans are what built them by the time 3 is out.

Eli-da-Mage wrote...
Well...I kinda like my badass unflinching Renegade...[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/blushing.png[/smilie]

Edit:Bah! Comment system ruined an already terrible joke

Modifié par Dionkey, 02 décembre 2010 - 06:57 .

[MisterDyslexo]

I agree 100%

Where's the anger, the sadness, the despair? Why does Shepard have to have the emotions of Master Chief (although Master Chief is well-done in the fact he's supposed to be like that). He's/she's a real human being, with actual feelings. Whhy doesn't h/she ever break out crying or into an uncontrollable fit of rage? I hope that this isn't excused with the emotional cripple crap that happens when a traumatic even happens (Earthborn,Colonist,Akuze,Torfan). Your point mostly conveys the need for despair, which I agree on, but I think that in general this needs to be worked upon. I know what happens to people like that, and by the same logic I know what happens to Shepard in ME3 if this path continues-A bullet in the brain.

[MaaZeus]

I think Shepard is either consciously or subconciously forcing himself to be calm and decisive because thats his/her job, thats what he thinks he needs to be and he is right somewhat. He has a strong charismatic aura and people join him easily.

When Liara asks about what he thinks, I think in both "paragon" and "neutral" choices Shepard is still not 100% open but keeps on his charismatic individual face. Only the renegade choice shows what he feels down in his heart. Tired, frustrated... but he goes on because he HAS to and also despite the storms inside him he CAN do it all. Or perhaps to the point? Perhaps in ME3 we see Shepard on the cracking point? There is only so much human can take before collapsing no matter how strong willed and hearted and well trained badass you are.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 02 décembre 2010 - 05:43 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, Morinth was technically a case of mental strength.

[Zulu_DFA]

Not this again!



Commander Shepard had been a space marine for 10+ years before ME1. As of ME2 he's a Cyborg-Zombie.



THE ONLY THING COMMANDER SHEPARD FEELS IS RECOIL !!!

[Fiery Phoenix]

LOL! Yes, Recoil!

[dgcatanisiri]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Well, Morinth was technically a case of mental strength.

Agreed, that was what I thought of when I read the title of the thread.

What it sounds like the OP is asking for, though, is more like Shepard expressing a moment of doubt to someone. The problem with that is that in the game, it is Shepard who initiates the conversations. HE is the confidant. There hasn't been a character who plays that role for him (or her) until LOTSB. So including a few moments where someone comes to Shepard (possibly the 'winning' LI) and they just discuss Shepard's fears, hopes, and dreams would be appreciated.

[Dionkey]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Well, Morinth was technically a case of mental strength.

Agreed, that was what I thought of when I read the title of the thread.

What it sounds like the OP is asking for, though, is more like Shepard expressing a moment of doubt to someone. The problem with that is that in the game, it is Shepard who initiates the conversations. HE is the confidant. There hasn't been a character who plays that role for him (or her) until LOTSB. So including a few moments where someone comes to Shepard (possibly the 'winning' LI) and they just discuss Shepard's fears, hopes, and dreams would be appreciated.

Exactly what I mean. During LOTSB, we saw this, but it was so void of emotion. Sure it seemed like it was dull so you could infer he was stressed but thats not what stressed people do. They show real facial animation, possibley stutter when talking about something frantic. We should be able to see how all the events are effecting him. Another good example (And excuse me for a bunch of PS3 exclusives XD) was during Heavy Rain, sort of SPOILERS if you haven't played it yet so Ill make a little jump

==================================================
Heavy Rain Spoilers:
During the end of the game when Ethan is recollecting  all the clues, if you have a few missing, he actually starts to shake and cry. Why? Because he (His father) failed to save his son.
EndSpoiler
===================================================

Why can't we see any of this in ME? A perfect time to illustrate this would be during the end of the Suicide mission, if you lost a squadmember than he would display grief. Hes a strong man and he doesn't have to cry or shake but it just seems like they just keep on rollin without any of them showing any emotion whatsoever. Even Joker! Look at the ending where everyone dies, when Joker tells the illusive man that everyone died, he seems like he dropped his Ipod in lake, not like everyone he has worked with, knew, and respected is dead.

[Arijharn]

Obviously there's limits to what the facial animation technology that they've made/used can do though. I would imagine that short of mo-cap, real expressive computer driven facial expression would be really expensive (and not necessarily just in the financial sense) to do.



I'd like to see more emotion from our favourite meatbag too, but only if they give a neutral way out that confirms to the ideals of those players who don't like 'that sort of thing.'

[Inquisitor Recon]

No forced emotional displays. Nothing like Shepard breaking down and crying or really awkward meetings.

[MisterDyslexo]

ReconTeam wrote...

No forced emotional displays. Nothing like Shepard breaking down and crying or really awkward meetings.

*cough cough* Horizon *cough*

"Hey there! We had a romance going, then I died! Now I'm back! Wassup?!"

If you want your one to be an emotional cripple, more power to you. I just don't like how it has  to be like that. And no more ****** dialogue, even if you are going for the emotionless cyborg thing

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 03 décembre 2010 - 01:37 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

MisterDyslexo wrote...
If you want your one to be an emotional cripple, more power to you. I just don't like how it has  to be like that

Horizon falls under awkward meeting but a different type of awkward. The "Oh... I really should have sent you an email..." type of awkward. I don't think Shepard not breaking down and crying makes him a "emotional cripple." Shepard is a Systems Aliiance marine veteran, a Spectre, and has killed his way around the galaxy. He wouldn't get that far if he couldn't deal with what life throws at him.

[Arijharn]

Hmm, I can't say I would like it if I see Shephard breaking down and crying over a spilt glass of cold milk (although; milk is very delicious, so to see that wasted...) I'd just like to see him perhaps doubting his own judgement (preferably something beyond his control?) or hell, even his/her LI asking him about his thoughts etc.

[Veex]

Just jump to two minutes.



I think this is an appropriate display of emotion for Shepard. He's introspective, he's displaying remorse over his fallen comrades, and then he moves on. He doesn't need to cry, or stutter, or doubt his every move. He's Shepard because he has an unrivaled conviction and strength of will, to reduce him to feeling "real human emotion" reduces the character. You aren't playing an everyday person, he is quite literally the best of the best.

[Undertone]

In ME2 Shepard doesn't grow as a character whatsoever. As much as I hate Tali I have to say that her character has definitely visible growth (for example how Shepard freed Liara in reference to her own research in her recruitment mission). Shepard has 0 character growth unfortunately.



It's about time something like that happens in ME3.



On-topic:



I like the idea so long as it is optional and not forced. It does seem too cliche and unrealistic for Shepard to be unwavering all the time. In ME1 it was a cool moment for the LI to shine whenever Shepard and co get grounded. It shows after all Shepard is only human. Of course the context has to be good.

[AdamNW]

Has any WRPG main character had any character growth...ever? I wasn't aware this was expected.

I mean, you could count the revelation in KOTOR but it hasn't happened since.

Modifié par AdamNW, 03 décembre 2010 - 02:42 .

[hooahguy]

I do think stress needs to be emphasized more, especially as time goes on. I personally would have liked to see Shep break down after Virmire.

In fact, in my fanfic I have my Shep dealing with the ghosts of past decisions, like the person who died on Virmire, the hostages in Bring Down the Sky, the refinery workers in Zaeeds mission, etc.

It would be nice to see something similar, like a disturbing dream where all those ghosts come to haunt him, or while in combat a ghost appears to freak you out and cause you to falter.

[Isaidlunch]

AdamNW wrote...

Has any WRPG main character had any character growth...ever? I wasn't aware this was expected.

I mean, you could count the revelation in KOTOR but it hasn't happened since.

Definitely not expected but the lack of character growth is much more obvious in ME.

I'll probably be shot for saying this but I think Kotor 2 had great PC growth and I feel the Exile really developed as a character throughout the game. Far from perfect though.

Modifié par Kazanth, 03 décembre 2010 - 02:59 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

AdamNW wrote...
Has any WRPG main character had any character growth...ever? I wasn't aware this was expected.

I hope to God you aren't suggesting ME3 having any aspect of those damned JRPGs at all.

[Sajuro]

 He seems to be the type more to pull people out of their emotional traps, so I guess it would be good if Shepard's LI in the next game slapped some sense into him if he had a breakdown. Though that could lead to some unfortunate scenes.
Garrus: Get a hold of yourself! -slaps Shep-
Shep: X.X