7 réponses à ce sujet

[PJ156]

Are there any advantages to updating journal via the quest log over using ga_journal as a convo action script?

Or the other way round.

PJ

[dunniteowl]

Without the conversation method, you can update the quest journal to indicate you've gotten quest related items at the end of killing a creature, finding a new location on the map or adding a collected item of a set number of like items to fulfill a collection quest (like finding 6 pieces of the magic rod to make a Staff of the Magi, for example, or getting 5 rescued hostages out of a burning building, or when you open a new area on the OM, you can get an update then as well.)

I prefer to have a conversation notification, even if it's just a quick convo box that says, "You've found another piece of the Staff!" or "You have three hostages left to rescue!" I say this only because I am the sort of player that tracks most of the quests and such in my head and only refer to the quest journal when I am stumped in a specific quest, or when I have completed several quests and am wondering, "Now what's left to do?" So I tend to appreciate a specific game related tap on the shoulder to let me know I have moved forward with quest progression.

Without the convo box, you hear this tiny little "ding!" and the sound of a pen scratching across a page of parchment, but there are plenty of times that really doesn't attract my attention (like just at the end of a battle and I am assessing my characters' state of health, or collecting loot.) There are other times when I do hear the "ding!" except I have no idea which quest it relates to and that sort of bothers me in that now I have to open my journal to figure out what updated -- and, as I tend to only look in there when I am wondering what next to do, I don't keep a strong track of what it looked like last time. So sometimes it's hard to tell what changed. So for me a quick convo box is preferred. If you could only time stamp the entries as they get written, that would make a difference, or flag unread items as "New!" with a time stamp, that would help. In the meantime, I prefer to get a more direct notice.

dunniteowl

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

There's a set notice text function that throws up a bit of text at the top of the screen, and I'll often use that to mark intermediate quest updates, and to remind the player what they're supposed to do next. It's less intrusive than stopping the action and using a conversation like DNO does, but by the same token it's easier to miss.



I also tend to update the journal log more often, like when the PC enters a quest-related area or at critical points during a battle. I usually do that so that the game can keep precise track of what the player is doing and what supposed to happen next, but it also leads to more detailed journal quest entries with more immediate goals. I.E. Not just go kill the Goblin King, but travel to Area X, find the Goblin encampment, reach the Goblin King's tent, and finally kill the Goblin King. The player doesn't really need to be hit over the head with exposition when they achieve a minor, intermediate goal like these, so often a simple journal update with no conversation or notice text is enough.

[dunniteowl]

I don't know that I do it that way, Lugaid. I was stating my preference as a player that uses brain cells (what a waste, I guess ) to track quests and their states, so a quick little box quickly informing me of something important I find useful. That said, I obviously know about the simple quest state update without conversation (and see it's definite utility to avoid breaking immersion if it's not that important) dialogs.

From my perspective as a gamer, and the way I play, the little definite tap on the shoulder is preferred. I'm definitely not married to it, though. And I admit I am a bit of an oddball when it comes to how I keep track of things.

I am willing to bet that the larger portion of players probably would rather NOT have the dialog box pop up to let them know they only have 2 hostages left to rescue, or 3 pieces of the staff. If something like a barkstring came up and it was noticeable (or you could set the time of it for something like 5 seconds or so) along with that little "ding!" that'd probably do the trick for me all the way through.

One problem I have seen with the update without a convo/text box informational, is that sometimes the journal update is bugged (possibly due to the way the scripts were set up by the module maker, or there may be an inherent trickiness to the quest/journal functions, I am not sure) and you get the update, but nothing actually visually updates. This I have seen only with finding new areas in the OM, though and that may be isolated to the OM functions only.

Not arguing, just hopefully stating my position a bit more clearly. I think for the most part, most folks don't really want to be thumped with a text box notice. I prefer that.

Then again, I like falling out of trees, so there's that.

dno

[MasterChanger]

I think PJ156 might actually be asking a more technical question, rather than a sort of gamer's-experience one like DNO and LotrRS are responding to (not to say that it isn't a useful philosophical discussion).

How I read PJ156's question was as pertaining to two different ways to update the quest state in a convo: 1) by using the little "quest" slot  on the node itself, and 2) by using a script (such as ga_journal, but you could also write your own if you wanted to other options) to call the AddJournalQuestEntry function.

I asked a similar question to this on the IRC a while ago; for me it was mostly pertaining to PW's rather than the SP experience I'd guess PJ is working on. Using the convo node's quest slot is probably marginally easier for a builder, but ultimately, using the script gives you more control without really losing anything. The general consensus on the IRC was that there isn't any reason not to use the action script method.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

One advantage of using the node slot is that it shows up in the conversation editor spreadsheet thing, making it a little easier to manage conversations. It also displays the available quest states in the drop-down menu, which is a bit safer than typing everything out (no typo-induced bugs).



@DNO, I think we agree that different methods are good for different situations. The different methods I can think of, in order of intrusiveness, are:

1. Plain journal update, the player has to look in the journal log to figure out what happened.

2. SendMessageToPC that spits out something in the chat log, which players usually ignore.

3. SetNoticeText that displays a text message at the top of the screen, which is also easily missed.

4. A barkstring that displays above the PC's head, where the player is sure to notice it.

5. A GUI textbox that pops up and gives the player a bit of text to read.

6. A quick forced conversation, often just the PC conversing with themselves or a companion.

7. A cutscene-style conversation that not only interrupts the game, but may also reposition the PC.



Any other techniques out there?

[PJ156]

I am reading all this with ineterest.

Masterchanger  is correct in that I am wondering if there is some technical difference between the two, however the discussion is making me think more about how  I use the journal.

For me the journal is critical to the development of the story. It is great that the pc would try to remember or make notes on the story as that is immersion. For those who touch our imagination lightly, the journal is our spokesman.

The only way that the quest log seems easier to me is that it appears in another column and not amoung the action scripts. I wonder if there is some other functionality that I am missing?

Perhaps the way we use the journal is worthy of another thread however I am happy for this to become that discussion as I am equally interested in the answer.

BTW - If any of your out there know what Tanglefoot is you will also understand how difficult this post was to write.

Yours, from deepest Dorset,

PJ

Modifié par PJ156, 03 décembre 2010 - 12:10 .

[dunniteowl]

I think those 7 situations and conditions pretty much cover it, Lugaid. I suppose there are only variations on a theme after that.

As a builder, I would favor having the ability to read my script/dialogs (inclusive of journal update strings) in one flowing chart-like structure, BUT, I would also find it helpful to have two separate files to read (if possible) or two separate sections/columns the delineate what my conversations (real, talk to an NPC or Companion) are versus what my journal updates are.

Functionally speaking, though, whatever helps you wrap your head around the issue is what's best for you. And for that, it's nice to have more than one way to introduce a journal update.

dno