260 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

tonnactus wrote...

That chance is 100 percent regarding that Cauthrien also knows and have excuses for things like the slavery in the alienage ore the torturing of the nobles.She would also know about the assassination attemps for sure.If Loghain wanted the Warden to be dead at that time,Cauthrien would just kill them at that eastate. And she wouldnt care for Anoras plans.

Evidence would be nice.  While it's possible that Cauthrien would know, it's not the 100% slam dunk you think.  Frankly I don't think Loghain knows or wants to know the grimly little details leaving them mostly for Howe.  Loghain strikes me as a results oriented kind of guy....and he's know that Ser Cauthrien might have problems with some of this....so don't tell her.

There is nothing about the assassination attempts, slaving, or the rest that require Ser Cauthrien to know at all.  Now given her position, she's probably heard dark rumors (and says as much when you confront her the second time...and that those rumors have given her doubts), but that's not the same as absoutely 100% knowing.

Am no.The warden ask after Icnacio said that it isnt in the interest of the crows that the archdemon wins after all why they tried to kill them:
"A time we thought that Loghain was the right man for the job.But after we meet you..."
In that order. Its not selective.
At least it proves that isnt common knowledge that Grey Wardens are needed to defeat the Darkspawn.

No it doesn't.  You seem to forget that:

1.  There are lots of Grey Wardens outside of Fereldan.
2.,  Most of the rest of Thedas has written Fereldan off by this point (Arl Eamon quite explicitly hints at this).

-Polaris

[ejoslin]

There have only been 6 blights -- all have been ended by the Gray Wardens.

Zevran may say this after he lets the warden know he's taking responsibility for the warden's survival:

Zevran: Oh, I'm not going to die. It's always the Grey Wardens that die. Did you not read stories as a child? The hero always dies.

Not sure how relevant that is, though. Just thought I'd toss it out there.

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 décembre 2010 - 11:49 .

[tonnactus]

IanPolaris wrote...


Evidence would be nice.

For what?After sucessfully intimated before entering the landsmeet,you could confront Cauthrien about the things you found out. Torturing nobles,slavery,poisining Eamon.She knew this all and present excuses for that. For sure she knew about the assassination attemps.

[IanPolaris]

tonnactus wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...


Evidence would be nice.

For what?After sucessfully intimated before entering the landsmeet,you could confront Cauthrien about the things you found out. Torturing nobles,slavery,poisining Eamon.She knew this all and present excuses for that. For sure she knew about the assassination attemps.

She never says that.  She knows that Loghain has done bad things, but she never says she has specific knowledge of the things you mention.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  Note that I say "specific" knowledge.  I think it's increasing clear that Ser Cauthrien increasingly believes that the dark rumors against Loghain are probably true and she can no longer ignore them.  Also it's a persuade (not intimidate) check that gets you this.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 25 décembre 2010 - 08:09 .

[tonnactus]

IanPolaris wrote...


She never says that.  She knows that Loghain has done bad things, but she never says she has specific knowledge of the things you mention.

She knows exactly that Loghain sold city elves as slaves as an example.If this isnt specific enough,then what else....

Modifié par tonnactus, 25 décembre 2010 - 10:03 .

[TheRevanchist]

tonnactus wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...


She never says that.  She knows that Loghain has done bad things, but she never says she has specific knowledge of the things you mention.

She knows exactly that Loghain sold city elves as slaves as an example.If this isnt specific enough,then what else....

"What else was he suppose to do?! He was forced to empty the royal treasurey trying to deal with you!" basicly her words regarding that subject.

[Addai]

IanPolaris wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...


Evidence would be nice.

For what?After sucessfully intimated before entering the landsmeet,you could confront Cauthrien about the things you found out. Torturing nobles,slavery,poisining Eamon.She knew this all and present excuses for that. For sure she knew about the assassination attemps.

 .  Also it's a persuade (not intimidate) check that gets you this.

(Husband)   Have they fixed that?   For a long time that was bugged, the game would check against the levels of poison profeciency rather than coercion causing an instant fail with most persuaders trying to persuade Cauthrien.

[IanPolaris]

kylecouch wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...


She never says that.  She knows that Loghain has done bad things, but she never says she has specific knowledge of the things you mention.

She knows exactly that Loghain sold city elves as slaves as an example.If this isnt specific enough,then what else....

"What else was he suppose to do?! He was forced to empty the royal treasurey trying to deal with you!" basicly her words regarding that subject.

I'm sorry but that still isn't 100% slam dunk proof that she knew.  By the time this conversation takes place, it's already hot on the dark rumor mill that Loghain was in cahoots with slavers (check with the bartender for rumors if you doubt me on this), which means that Ser Cauthrien may just as easily found out after the fact.  It explains that line just as well. [Ex Post facto justification of her hero]

Frankly I see absolutely no ingame evidence whatsoever that Ser Cauthrien was ever involved in Loghains shadier deals and here is good reason to think she wouldn't be given her nature and thus her antipathy to them (and Loghain knows her nature better than anyone).  That won't stop Loghain from doing them but would quite reasonably be enough to keep her out of them (she has issues with them?  fine don't tell her....IRL Rulers have done that with trusted but naive allies for all of human history).

-Polaris

[TheRevanchist]

IanPolaris wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...


She never says that.  She knows that Loghain has done bad things, but she never says she has specific knowledge of the things you mention.

She knows exactly that Loghain sold city elves as slaves as an example.If this isnt specific enough,then what else....

"What else was he suppose to do?! He was forced to empty the royal treasurey trying to deal with you!" basicly her words regarding that subject.

I'm sorry but that still isn't 100% slam dunk proof that she knew.  By the time this conversation takes place, it's already hot on the dark rumor mill that Loghain was in cahoots with slavers (check with the bartender for rumors if you doubt me on this), which means that Ser Cauthrien may just as easily found out after the fact.  It explains that line just as well. [Ex Post facto justification of her hero]

Frankly I see absolutely no ingame evidence whatsoever that Ser Cauthrien was ever involved in Loghains shadier deals and here is good reason to think she wouldn't be given her nature and thus her antipathy to them (and Loghain knows her nature better than anyone).  That won't stop Loghain from doing them but would quite reasonably be enough to keep her out of them (she has issues with them?  fine don't tell her....IRL Rulers have done that with trusted but naive allies for all of human history).

-Polaris

Yes I am aware it's not proof and I am aware of all this as well. In fact he probably indeed didn't tell her anything...because while she admires him she does not seem like someone who would stoop to those levels and would disaprove of those who do. Example 1...Ostagar.."But...what about the King...shouldn't we?" violent grab "DO AS I COMMAND!"

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

(Husband)   Have they fixed that?   For a long time that was bugged, the game would check against the levels of poison profeciency rather than coercion causing an instant fail with most persuaders trying to persuade Cauthrien.

They haven't.  I have.  There's a few errors in that conversation.

[Mike3207]

It definitely could be a Xanatos Gambit, if Anora is the one behind it. She stands a good chance of taking out both Howe and the Warden, and possibly Alistair as well. Going down into the dungeons is a dangerous enterprise, and there's a high probability at least one of them dies, maybe more with a little luck.

If the warden's party survives, fall back on the backup plan to negotiate an agreement with the Warden to keep the throne. It will reflect well on the Warden that he was able to escape from what is a very obvious trap, thus being worthy of Anora's support.

The real question to me is who sent Cauthrien. If it wasn't Anora/Erlina, and it may not have been, either Loghain or Howe could have sent Cauthrien. I definitely think Howe would have taken advantage of a opportunity to kill/imprison the Warden. If the warden manged to kill Howe, he'd still have his revenge and manage to have the Warden imprisoned.

Loghain commands Cauthrien-he could have sent her. He may have decided it was a good way to weaken the Warden's party. Have Cauthrien imprison the Warden in Fort Drakon, and the Landsmeet becomes a lot easier for him.

To summarize-I know there was a gambit by someone. It could have been Anora, or it might have been Howe/Loghain. I'm not sure we'll ever really know.