92 réponses à ce sujet

[Luigitornado]

Can someone explain what they are? I'm curious.

And remember, a plot hole is something you believe cannot be solved within ME3.

[Da_Lion_Man]

How is Jack able to destroy 2 mechs with ease when you release her, yet in-game she can barely defend herself? Why does the game consider her a weakling in the HTL part? What happened?



The shuttle mission. WTF is up with that?

[Mr Waffles]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...
The shuttle mission. WTF is up with that?

This one stands out the most, you're never given any explanation why your whole squad went aboard the Shuttle before the Collecters catch your Normandy and abduct nearly all your crew.

[GodWood]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...
How is Jack able to destroy 2 mechs with ease when you release her, yet in-game she can barely defend herself? Why does the game consider her a weakling in the HTL part? What happened?

One must learn to seperate gameplay mechanics from actual character ability.

Jack 'can' destroy an entire space station with raw biotic power its just that the game obviously cannot allow this because of technical/gameplay reasons.
Much in the same way Shepard is unable to crouch of his own accord since 2185.

[Luigitornado]

They did give an explanation...just a convenient/dumb one.

Don't remember how exactly it went down...but

Joker says the IFF is all set, EDI disagrees and wants to test it more. It is then suggested that Shepard want's to take a shuttle for some nameless trip of a mission. Miranda suggests taking everybody, so Shepard can decide later who s/he exactly wants to take along when the get closer to their desitnation.

So in point. Don't ever take advice from Miranda.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 02 décembre 2010 - 01:43 .

[Luigitornado]

GodWood wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...
How is Jack able to destroy 2 mechs with ease when you release her, yet in-game she can barely defend herself? Why does the game consider her a weakling in the HTL part? What happened?

One must learn to seperate gameplay mechanics from actual character ability.

Jack 'can' destroy an entire space station with raw biotic power its just that the game obviously cannot allow this because of technical/gameplay reasons.
Much in the same way Shepard is unable to crouch of his own accord since 2185.

Kind of like the whole Metroid Fusion things, where you have SAX blowing up entrances and such with a Super Missile...and yet Samus could never do that.

[Da_Lion_Man]

GodWood wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...
How is Jack able to destroy 2 mechs with ease when you release her, yet in-game she can barely defend herself? Why does the game consider her a weakling in the HTL part? What happened?

One must learn to seperate gameplay mechanics from actual character ability.

Jack 'can' destroy an entire space station with raw biotic power its just that the game obviously cannot allow this because of technical/gameplay reasons.
Much in the same way Shepard is unable to crouch of his own accord since 2185.

I know, but it's still a little ridiculous how the game considers her weak.

[Rivercurse]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/2844283

[SmokePants]

I would think a plot hole would have something to do with the plot and would be irreconcilable. People on this board treat everything from simple continuity errors to dangling threads to not having enough damned exposition as a plot hole and it's annoying as hell.

[LorDC]

Agreed. I think tvtropes.org is authoritative enough:

Plot Holes are those annoying gaps in a story where things happen without a logical reason.

Note that a Plot Hole is inherently a contradiction. A plot element that is merely left unexplained is not a Plot Hole unless its occurrence is impossible according to the setting's rules.

Shuttle leave is not a plot hole. But that doesn't change the fact that Bioware should have made some actual mission, not virtual.

[Zulu_DFA]

-- it's what makes the plot cheezy.

[SmokePants]

LorDC wrote...

Agreed. I think tvtropes.org is authoritative enough:

Plot Holes are those annoying gaps in a story where things happen without a logical reason.

Note that a Plot Hole is inherently a contradiction. A plot element that is merely left unexplained is not a Plot Hole unless its occurrence is impossible according to the setting's rules.

Shuttle leave is not a plot hole. But that doesn't change the fact that Bioware should have made some actual mission, not virtual.

The mission might have been a taco run. Hey, we never see them eat, but it's assumed that they do.

Seriously, though. I was confused when that happened the first time. It could have been handled better. Still not a plot hole.

[Big I]

Why not use the Normandy to attack the Collector ship on Horizon? Shepard's fine with attacking it with the defense towers.



Why doesn't Shepard present the Derelict Reaper as evidence to the Council?



Shepard is the only person in history other than Saren to make peaceful contact with the Geth. Why do the Council ignore that?



Why does an all human Council refuse to meet Shepard?



How did Jacob's dad get mechs and thermal clip weapons while stranded?



Why would the Collectors use the Vorcha to spread a plague on Omega?



How did the Virmire Survivor get free from the Collector stasis field?



If the Collectors attacked Horizon primarily for the Virmire Survivor, why didn't they abduct them?



From ME: The SR-1, after dropping the Mako on Ilos, meets up with the Fifth Fleet at Arcturus.

1) How did they get from Ilos (the Terminus systems) to Arcturus (the gateway to Earth) in time?

2) Why did Admiral Hackett allow mutineers to join the Fifth Fleet?

3) When they left they didn't know what the Conduit was. Why did they strand Shepard and his team on Ilos?

[wulf3n]

Wikipedia ...
unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.

Shepard joining cerberus with little resistance.
None of the characters questioning the necessity of the "suicide" mission.

LookingGlass93 wrote...
3) When they left they didn't know what the Conduit was. Why did they strand Shepard and his team on Ilos?

They didn't need to, they may not know what the conduit is, but they know if saren gets to it the reapers come back . It may seem like a plot hole, but their reasoning is clear. Stop Saren at all costs or the galaxy ends.They knew it was a one way mission, but it was necessary. 

That was imo a better example of a suicide mission than ME2. In ME2 the reason for going through the Omega 4 relay is poorly thought out. Sure they have to stop the collectors, but they know nothing about them, you don't even know if going through the relay will do anything. If the first half of the game was discovering "usable" information about the collectors then suicide mission is suggested, it would have made a lot more sense.

Modifié par wulf3n, 03 décembre 2010 - 03:06 .

[Big I]

wulf3n wrote...

Shepard joining cerberus with little resistance.

Particularly egregious if Shepard has the Sole Survivor background.

wulf3n wrote...

It may seem like a plot hole, but their reasoning is clear. Stop Saren at all costs or the galaxy ends.They knew it was a one way mission, but it was necessary.

I can buy that, but you'd think they could have have mentioned that onscreen for drama if for nothing else

[Mnemnosyne]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

From ME: The SR-1, after dropping the Mako on Ilos, meets up with the Fifth Fleet at Arcturus.
1) How did they get from Ilos (the Terminus systems) to Arcturus (the gateway to Earth) in time?
2) Why did Admiral Hackett allow mutineers to join the Fifth Fleet?
3) When they left they didn't know what the Conduit was. Why did they strand Shepard and his team on Ilos?

These three are actually pretty easy to explain away.

1: They were lucky with the configuration of mass relays between those two locations.  We don't know the exact locations of the mass relays: we know that travel from one relay to another is effectively instantaneous, therefore all travel time takes place only while traveling through space under the ship's own power, such as from one relay to another, non-connected relay.  If the relays from Ilos to Arcturus were all within a few minutes travel time of each other, it may have very well taken the Normandy less than a half hour to travel to Arcturus.

2: Because Admiral Hackett is a pretty smart guy.  No, really, this is pretty well established over the course of all those secondary missions he gives you.  He doesn't toe the politicians' lines, he seems to see the situation relatively clearly and do whatever's necessary to accomplish the objective, even if it isn't strictly by the book.  Particularly noticeable if Shepard is a renegade and does the renegade-only mission where Hackett sends her to kill Lord Darius without actually sending her to kill him.

3: As far as I can remember (haven't played it in a while) there's no specific comment about exactly when the Normandy leaves.  So, it's entirely reasonable to say that they were there until Vigil explained what the Conduit was, then they immediately took off on their way back.  The time it took Shepard to climb up the length of the Citadel tower was the time it took the Normandy to travel through the relay system back to Arcturus, as noted above.

There are a lot of other, harder to explain plot holes all over the series, all the way from "don't they have security cameras in the future?" to "why not disable or destroy the collector ship on one of the several occasions you have before the end of ME2?" or even the simple "how is it that in the span of two years, every firearm in the entire galaxy was somehow "upgraded", considering the manufacturing capacity necessary to do that would be astronomically high, but incredibly unprofitable?" but going over them has become rather tedious.  Frankly, the ME series has thus far had some of the worst continuity in all of BioWare's games. 

It's a fun story, but it's the kind of popcorn action-movie story that requires you to intentionally avoid thinking about it, otherwise it breaks.  That's some pretty harsh criticism from me considering I still like the games a lot, but I think it's honest and fair criticism.  I also think that without the voice acting and the expressions of the characters, the story wouldn't stand up at all.  Play the game with dialogue muted and read it from the subtitles, and it just doesn't hold up very well at all - the characters make the game good.

[Manic Sheep]

Why does an all human Council refuse to meet Shepard?

So bioware doesn't have to make a new council ;P
Seriously...maybe they are afraid of you or don't want to be seen meeting with your or supporting you in case it furthers rumours that you killed the old council for political agendas, and they might not want to be associated with anything you do?

How did Jacob's dad get mechs and thermal clip weapons while stranded?

Presumably they must have been on the ship. Even if they aren’t military it would e foolish to explore new planets unarmed.

Why would the Collectors use the Vorcha to spread a plague on Omega?

They couldn't exactly go around spreading it themselves. People ignore the Vorcha, they are immune to diseases and aren’t likely to have a crisis of conscious and tell everyone about it. Who better to spread the plague

How did the Virmire Survivor get free from the Collector stasis field?

It must wear off over time.

If the Collectors attacked Horizon primarily for the Virmire Survivor, why didn't they abduct them?

You interrupted them before they had finished picking everybody up. I don't think they would have known where he/she was specifically so they couldn't just make a bee line for them. Plus if they were after him/her to draw you out or hadn't expected you to arrive at all they wouldn't have been in a rush to grab them right off anyway.


Why doesn’t Shep have a god dam camera on his/her helmet or something? Would solve allot of issue with people not believing ****

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 03 décembre 2010 - 03:48 .

[SmokePants]

None of those are plot holes. They do not directly conflict with other elements relevant to the construction of the narrative. Here's a rule of thumb: if it's a question, it's probably not a plot hole. Questions may have answers, even eventual answers. A plot hole is self-evident and permanent. It can never ever be explained.

[Isaidlunch]

Manic Sheep wrote...



How did Jacob's dad get mechs and thermal clip weapons while stranded?



Presumably they must have been on the ship. Even if they aren’t military it would e foolish to explore new planets unarmed.

I assume what he meant was that neither thermal clip weapons or those type
of mechs existed 10 years before ME2, when the ship crashed.

Modifié par Kazanth, 03 décembre 2010 - 03:56 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

SmokePants wrote...

None of those are plot holes. They do not directly conflict with other elements relevant to the construction of the narrative. Here's a rule of thumb: if it's a question, it's probably not a plot hole. Questions may have answers, even eventual answers. A plot hole is self-evident and permanent. It can never ever be explained.

But we have changed the definition.

This is our right as Martians.

[SmokePants]

My apologies. I didn't know Martian law had been instituted.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Its been that way for many months. We don't openly advertise it though because well as you know Martian law tends to drive commerce away

[calebj13]

duuudes, don't be foolish. The only reason you get on the shuttle and don't do a mission is because you FINISHED all the loyalty missions before. The game intends for you to have not all of them done, which is why when the collectors attack the shuttle doesn't turn right around and go kick some ass. They're busy missioning and such.

[ADLegend21]

Kazanth wrote...

Manic Sheep wrote...



How did Jacob's dad get mechs and thermal clip weapons while stranded?



Presumably they must have been on the ship. Even if they aren’t military it would e foolish to explore new planets unarmed.

I assume what he meant was that neither thermal clip weapons or those type
of mechs existed 10 years before ME2, when the ship crashed.

in teh codex it says weapons were "retro fitted" with Thermal clips and retro means old so the ship must have crashed during the first wave of Thermal clip popularity and Mechs are better than shooting down crazed stranded crewmen and women.

[mineralica]

ADLegend21 wrote...
in teh codex it says weapons were "retro fitted" with Thermal clips and retro means old so the ship must have crashed during the first wave of Thermal clip popularity and Mechs are better than shooting down crazed stranded crewmen and women.

And Shepard may insert old clips in his gun? Hoiw caring weapon manufacturers are to do them excangable. Plus, there's enough crazy crewmember to shoot - but I'd better not imagine crew member with abilities of YMIR.