92 réponses à ce sujet

[Praetor Knight]

Badpie wrote...

1) Anything with Wilson. Okay so we're supposed to infer that Wilson is destroying everything why? .....anyone? The best answers I can come up with are A. He's a disgruntled employee or B. He hated Miranda. And while I suppose you could say that happened, it just seems contrived and stupid and lazy to me.

Well it was speculated that Wilson worked for the Shadow Broker. So the SB, through Wilson, seemed to use Cerberus resources to bring Shepard back and when Shep was pretty much complete, but unconscious, Wilson tried to kill off the personnel, but Miranda royally screwed Wilson's plans with surviving and waking Shepard up.

2) Where did Mordin get the seeker swarm bug he was studying before they went to Horizon? Hm? HMMM? Go ahead and say "well I mean they must have picked it up somewhere" and sure that obviously must be the case but again, LAAAAZY.

I had assumed Freedom's Progress, but this is not a necessarily a plot hole, more a deus ex machina to handle the swarms.

3) The Illusive Man: "Liara is working for the shadow broker. You can't trust her." (later..) "Hey! Here's some intel for your friend Liara who is trying to take down the Shadow Broker!" *grumble*

I see a pattern of TIM manipulation that accounts for this flip flop, remember how he interrupts Shep at the Collector Base?

4) Shepard: "I know I only ever take two of you with me on every mission I go on, but hey...we're all friends now...WHO WANTS ICE CREAM? Come on, pile into the shuttle! All of you! YES ALL OF YOU!" ...wut?

There was a thread that went through this, and essentially the Normandy was disabled with the Reaper IFF, so everyone left on the Shuttle.

But I agree it felt too sudden and clunky, maybe if everyone left on another mission before this happened, it would nor have been a big deal. This kind of action is called a  plot device.

5) Nevermind that the writers completely dropped the ball with anything relating to your former dealings with Cerberus, your past friendship/romance with Ashley or Kaidan and the ****** poor robot Shepard reunion on Horizon.

I had a lot of trouble with what Shep said and how things were left with the VS (the email did not help). But it's not exactly clear what the Intel insinuated about Shep's dealings with Cerberus, an organization that murdered Kahoku. So I can at least see why the VS would be so unreasonable.

Edit: fixed grammar and added link for plot device.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 07 décembre 2010 - 12:40 .

[Zurcior]

Luigitornado wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

The stupid thing about the thermal clips isn't that they exist, it's that guns no-longer passively cool. Even if you stand there with no thermal clips for a week of game-time, it will never fire again until you load a new one.

Sigh.

Yeah...but if you did allow them to cool then what would be the point of the mechanic of using the clips?

I like thermal clips better...

 I'm beginning to wonder if the passive cooling system was really all that passive. Maybe the former cooling system had it's own mechanics to it. But that's just speculation on my part.

[Badpie]

Knoll Argonar wrote...

Problem is: some people are too obsessed with Mass Effect.
It's more productive to not ask why, why,why, whyyyy at everything. It happens, end of story. You don't need to know why Wilson does this or that, you don't need to know why TIM says this or that.
It happens, period.
For some reason Wilson goes mad and wants to scape from that project. For some reason TIM didn't trust Liara (neither she knew what she was up to) bur after he discovers her plans he suggests you to help her.
And, although they really messed up many things between Cerberus and you (even though this is not so clear), I found kaidan/ashley reactions quite realistic.

It's not about being obsessed with Mass Effect.  It's about being obsessed with decent writing.

@Praetor.  I'm well aware of what Deus ex Machina and plot devices are.  And yes those were those.  I hate deus ex machina stuff as it is, again, LAZY.  And the shuttle was indeed a plot device, but a horribly executed one.  As for TIM's manipulation, sure, but ehhhh it's still a stretch.  I don't know.  I just like writing to make sense.

Modifié par Badpie, 07 décembre 2010 - 12:44 .

[wulf3n]

Luigitornado wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

The stupid thing about the thermal clips isn't that they exist, it's that guns no-longer passively cool. Even if you stand there with no thermal clips for a week of game-time, it will never fire again until you load a new one.

Sigh.

Yeah...but if you did allow them to cool then what would be the point of the mechanic of using the clips?

I like thermal clips better...

it would be a "best of both worlds" situation. Not only do you have the ability to eject an overheated sink during an intense firefight, as not to lose momentum, you wouldn't be left with a useless weapon in the event that you don't have any more thermal clips to exchange.

[oldag07]

They all speak English. (universal translators .. oh . . .no).
The citadel allowing Cerberus marked ships dock with it.
The Normandy outrunning the collector's ship, and the collectors not being able to catch it.
Liara being so blood thirsty. . . .
Humanity being so prevalent everywhere even though humanity has entered the galactic stage for 30 years.
Thermoclips and mechs being used on Jacob's loyalty mission even though the people had been on the planet for 10 years.
The collector ship doing absolutely nothing to the Normandy when Shepard was aboard it. EDI isn't that good.
EDI cooperating with the team.
Conversation options after the characters after the suicide mission. They talk as if the mission hasn't happened yet.
Shepard being allowed to walk around the citadel so easily.
Shepard being allowed to see Anderson.  A rogue Cerberus agent allowed to talk to someone that high up alone. . .??

Modifié par oldag07, 07 décembre 2010 - 01:04 .

[Zurcior]

oldag07 wrote...

They all speak English. (universal translators .. oh . . .no).
The citadel allowing Cerberus marked ships dock with it.
The Normandy outrunning the collector's ship, and the collectors not being able to catch it.
Liara being so blood thirsty. . . .
Humanity being so prevalent everywhere even though humanity has entered the galactic stage for 30 years.
Thermoclips and mechs being used on Jacob's loyalty mission even though the people had been on the planet for 10 years.
The collector ship doing absolutely nothing to the Normandy when Shepard was aboard it. EDI isn't that good.
EDI cooperating with the team.
Conversation options after the characters after the suicide mission. They talk as if the mission hasn't happened yet.
Shepard being allowed to walk around the citadel so easily.
Shepard being allowed to see Anderson.  A rogue Cerberus agent allowed to talk to someone that high up alone. . .??

1) Yeah, universal translators.
2) It's not the Cerberus logo.
3) How is it a plothole that a ship that large is slower than a ship that small?
4) People change sometimes. It happens.
5) Those FTL drives are quite handy, aren't they?
6) Thermal Clips were just a gameplay mechanic. And mechs have always been around. They were only put to use more after the Citadel was attacked.
7) The Collecter ship was powered down. Remember? It was powering back up when you were trying to escape.
8) How is Edi cooperating with the team a plothole?
9)
10) Again,
11) Because he's not a Cerberus agent. He's a Spectre and Alliance soldier.

[Mangalores]

[quote]LorDC wrote...
....

[/quote]
It was a pretty safe bet that there is no "star empire" beyond Omega 4 relay. Because if it was there why would Saren use Geth? Or why they use only one ship?[/quote]

We were surprised it was only one ship, the Collectors were considered an enigmatic race, their weapons are unknown but supposedly highly advanced and since the omega relay was locked down none actually knew anything about them. None knew the Reaper connection of the Collectors either. They guessed it's the Reapers then found out it's the Collectors. They knew human colonies are disappearing, period. They actually expected it to be something bigger than a single derelict cruiser.

They have a ready made plan with zilch info about what the hell is happening and it's not like they are adapting anything when they finally find out.

Let's see what Shepard did when he found the Mu relay: He had gathered all the intel and had Normandy get this info to the guys with real guns. The goal was never to take on the Geth on his own or fight Sovereign in a space battle. He was supposed to be the covert ops guy gathering info and get it back home. The plan of Cerberus is that a flimsy frigate with eight to ten dudes takes on an enigmatic race in an area of space unknown to everyone... what kind of plan is that?
Boy is Cerberus lucky to have the idiot ball and writer protection at the same time.

[quote]It's a heat sink. That's why it's universal: it doesn't matter what the gun shoots, they're just all made to accept the same sort of heat-sink to carry the heat. Sort of how like most electronics use the same sort of batteries (AA, AAA) no matter where they're made.[/quote]

Good luck putting a AK74 round into an M-16. The purpose of the bullets is exactly the same and it works exactly the same. Why would any enemy power produce heat sinks interchangeable with those of their enemies? It's idiotic. Just like not bringing enough ammo to a firefight.

[Praetor Knight]

Mangalores wrote...

It's a heat sink. That's why it's universal: it doesn't matter what the gun shoots, they're just all made to accept the same sort of heat-sink to carry the heat. Sort of how like most electronics use the same sort of batteries (AA, AAA) no matter where they're made.

Good luck putting a AK74 round into an M-16. The purpose of the bullets is exactly the same and it works exactly the same. Why would any enemy power produce heat sinks interchangeable with those of their enemies? It's idiotic. Just like not bringing enough ammo to a firefight.

This is slightly out of context and the correlation is not exact.

What was in question was the thermal clips, and going by ME lore they are relatively interchangable and the omni-tool can make sure that there is no issue with using slightly different  thermal clips.

[Jamin101]

Angel-Shinkiro wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Zurcior wrote...
after reviewing their battle logs and found that the parties that got more rounds down-range the fastest usually won.

How does having to stop and reload get more rounds down-range faster?

Zurcior wrote...
The old system was too slow and inconvenient as far as I'm concerned.

Having unlimited ammo is too slow and inconvenient? 

now if you're talking about having your gun overheat, that can be a problem but any trained soldier won't sit there spamming like a cod4 player, they'll use controlled bursts that will prevent the gun from over heating. 

The availability of thermal clips may not be an issue for shepard, but running out of ammo is a major problem for soldiers.

Actually the thermal clips is faster because guns like the Revenant can be fired until it overheats and all you have to do is press one button to make it fire again while the ones in ME1 you have to take your time and either stop firing before it overheats or you can let it overheat and wait like 10 secs for it to cool down again.

currently playing me1 first time as a soldier, i can hold the trigger down fully and it will not overheat with the upgrades i have, essentially unlimited ammo. Ill take that over a pistol that has 20 bullets

[Jamin101]

Zurcior wrote...

So having a thousand rounds that can be fired full auto with mods, is inferior to 30 rounds at full auto before needing to exchange thermal clips?

 Mods that were also a gameplay mechanic. Besides, remember sabotage?


You know this from your extensive combat experience?

 Do you? Don't make disingenuous assertions just to satisfy your position. To anwser your question, I enjoy watching watching war documentaries. Rarely is there a complaint of running out of ammo.

if you make a habit of watching war/history documentaries i dont know how you can say running out of ammo isnt an issue

[Zurcior]

Jamin101 wrote...

Zurcior wrote...

So having a thousand rounds that can be fired full auto with mods, is inferior to 30 rounds at full auto before needing to exchange thermal clips?

 Mods that were also a gameplay mechanic. Besides, remember sabotage?


You know this from your extensive combat experience?

 Do you? Don't make disingenuous assertions just to satisfy your position. To anwser your question, I enjoy watching watching war documentaries. Rarely is there a complaint of running out of ammo.

if you make a habit of watching war/history documentaries i dont know how you can say running out of ammo isnt an issue

 It's rare that running out of ammo is mentioned. Not sayin' it didn't happen. Besides, Shepard and his/her companions aren't waging full-scale battles. Just a skirmish here and there. Plenty of bullets to drill into the heads of their enemies!

[oldag07]

Minor plot hole. . . But one never the less. Sovereign and Saren had the cure (or the technology to do so) for the genophage. This is shown in ME1 on virmire. However, reading through Harbinger's justification for not using Krogans for their next reaper is: “Krogan; sterilised race, potential wasted.”



http://masseffect.wi...about_the_Squad



I know that targeting humans is used as a good plot device, however, Krogans are a physically superior species in almost every way to humans. . . They would have been a more logical choice to create a reaper from.



I do feel the excuses for the Asari and the Turians worse. ..



“Asari; reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness.”

“Turian; you are considered...too primitive.”

[Praetor Knight]

oldag07 wrote...

Minor plot hole. . . But one never the less. Sovereign and Saren had the cure (or the technology to do so) for the genophage. *snip*

The cure was cloning.

[Chuvvy]

Why the **** can't we use helmet cams? We have those right now, currently, in real life.

[Manic Sheep]

This don't really qualify as a plot whole but

How the hell does everybody keep getting Sheps email address? Did (s)he post it on facebook or something?

[Hyper Cutter]

Manic Sheep wrote...

This don't really qualify as a plot whole but
How the hell does everybody keep getting Sheps email address? Did (s)he post it on facebook or something?

I'd imagine it's probably linked to your citizen ID # or something. The ads on the Citadel are clearly reading Shepard's ID, for example, as revealed by the ad giving you a "Citizen ID not found" error when trying to refer to Jack.

Also, at least some people specifically mention what they did to get in touch with you (mostly pulling strings and calling in favors to get in contact with people associated with Cerberus), iirc.

[Vaenier]

oldag07 wrote...

Minor plot hole. . . But one never the less. Sovereign and Saren had the cure (or the technology to do so) for the genophage. This is shown in ME1 on virmire. However, reading through Harbinger's justification for not using Krogans for their next reaper is: “Krogan; sterilised race, potential wasted.”

http://masseffect.wi...about_the_Squad

I know that targeting humans is used as a good plot device, however, Krogans are a physically superior species in almost every way to humans. . . They would have been a more logical choice to create a reaper from.

I do feel the excuses for the Asari and the Turians worse. ..
“Asari; reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness.”
“Turian; you are considered...too primitive.”

He was just making stuff up. Asari can reproduce fine among themselves. And how are turians primitive? I would not be suprised if he said they were fat as an excuse not to use them...

The fact he wanted Krogan but would not clone them is quite odd. But I will leave that as part of the bad writing and ignore it.

[Nizzemancer]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Not sure if this qualifies as a plot hole, but something that always bugged me.

So we see in the begining of ME2 the Collectors drop out of nowhere, never having been seen or mentioned before, and attempt to blow Shepard, his crew, and his ship to smithereens.  Then sometime after they decide, "hey lets get the SB to get his body for us".  So did they not want the body when they tried to vaporize him?  If not why now? If so, why not go get him at the time of the first attack?

Okay fine, whatever.  So we move on and now Shep is alive again (/rolleyes) and the Collectors are all about killing him again, until the TIM setup mission where they want to capture him again, after which they are all about killing him again.  Well maybe not killing, its not like at anypoint in the game they are actually out gunning for you (except right at the begining), they are more just indifferent to his existence when they aren't trying to capture or vaporize him. 

Then they randomly want to capture people associated to him previously, attack a colony to get them, then kidnap pretty much everyone on the colony except the one person they supposedly came there after.  Then they don't bother going after any other previous or current associations again, except for the Joker sequence where they kidnap a bunch of redshirts and his doctor.  After which they become completely indifferent again.

Does anyone really have any clue as to what the Collectors are really after?  Do the Collectors even know what they are doing?  It seems like they are completely bi-polar schitzo's and are just kinda all over the place doing completely different things at different times.

There is simply no consistency at all to their actions.

What about the whole "blow up the Normandy SR-2 while it's a sitting duck and eliminate any possible future threat" instead of just abduct everyone plothole?...

I had the Thanix cannon on Horizon btw. it would have been a cakewalk to end the mission right then and there, why go for the high-risk approach? PLOT HOLE.They should have at least made sure you can't get the Thanix until after that mission.