60 réponses à ce sujet

[Busomjack]

We know that by the end of Mass Effect 2 the Geth will be indepenndent of the Reapers by means of either reprogramming or having the heretics destroyed depending on the choices made in Mass Effect 2 but that still leaves the Geth/Quarian conflict unresolved. 
I think this plot element is very interesting and has great potential if expounded upon in Mass Effect 3.  We're dealing with two sides who both have very strong arguments. 
On one hand we have the Geth who were enslaved and tried to have exterminated simply because they developed a will to live.
On the other hand we have the Quarians whose civilization, culture, and majority of population were eradicated and have been forced to a meager existence as nomads for centuries.  
I'm not trying to start trouble by bringing this up but it reminds me of the contemporary conflict in the middle east between the Israelis and Palestinians since it's also a case where both sides have a very strong case and thus it is difficult to take a side.

I'm thinking that in Mass Effect 3 rather than recruiting just squadmates we should be recruiting factions to help fight off the Reapers.  We can choose between the alliance or cerberus, citadel or omega, Geth or Quarians or we can find ways to resolve the differences between the factions and thus have the best shot against repelling the Reaper invasion.

So with that said, would you like to see a scenario in Mass Effect 2 where you can either help the Quarians or Geth destroy each other?

Modifié par Busomjack, 03 décembre 2010 - 10:56 .

[Xilizhra]

Not really; either one is a waste. I'd rather they work together against the Reapers.



Also, not the Alliance vs. Cerberus: the Council vs. Cerberus. I'm convinced that the Alliance is part of the problem.

[Busomjack]

mrsph wrote...

It's at least implied that if the quarians and geth fight each other then they will both be weakened when the Reapers arrived. So it should only be the "you ****ed up you idiot!" consequence.

Though a choice of whether handing the geth over to the quarians or allowing them to remain sentient would be a more interesting choice.

Yeah, and I think it should actually be possible to lose in Mass Effect 3 just like you can die in Mass Effect 2.  I think the diplomatic choices you make in Mass Effect 3 should be what determines whether or not you have the forces necessary to stop the Reapers.

Another example I think should be an option to cure the genophage.  If you do it you'll have an army of Krogan but you'll ****** off the Citadel.

I think faction recruitment should be what mass Effect 3 is about, kind of like Dragon Age where you can do things like choose between the elves or the werewolves.

Modifié par Busomjack, 02 décembre 2010 - 07:24 .

[Alienmorph]

If I must, I'll kill the geths and take back Rannoch to quarians. But everything seems pushing things in a different situation ... it seems much more that both creators and created will be needed to fight the Reapers.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I would like to choose between either. I'm a proponent of galactic unity.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 02 décembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[Busomjack]

I could just totally imagine Tali's expression when I board the Flotilla with Legion and an army of Geth behind me and I tell her



Shepard:sorry Tali, if we don't stop the Reapers we're all dead and the Geth will be more useful to me than the Quarians."



Tali:Shepard... how could you... after all we've been through.



Shepard:Legion, kill the remaining Quarians and hack the main interface to disable life support for the remaining vessels.

[Googlesaurus]

Yes, but there should be an option for unity for especially diplomatic players.

[Busomjack]

Googlesaurus wrote...

Yes, but there should be an option for unity for especially diplomatic players.

I agree with this but I think whether or not you have this option should depend on chocies you made prior.

For example, if you destroyed the Geth Heretics in Mass Effect 2 rather than assimilate them the Geth will be more receptive of a truce with the Quarians since they know they are now lacking the numbers to both fight of the Quarians and protect themselves from the Reapers.

[Googlesaurus]

Busomjack wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

Yes, but there should be an option for unity for especially diplomatic players.

I agree with this but I think whether or not you have this option should depend on chocies you made prior.

For example, if you destroyed the Geth Heretics in Mass Effect 2 rather than assimilate them the Geth will be more receptive of a truce with the Quarians since they know they are now lacking the numbers to both fight of the Quarians and protect themselves from the Reapers.

I'd like it to be pushed even further with outside decisions having logistic/tactical/moral effects on this issue.

Also, the heretic geth only composed 5% of the total geth population. Their destruction is of minimal consequence to the geth/quarian problem, but making them 'true' geth again may give you invaluable information about the Reapers. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 02 décembre 2010 - 07:54 .

[LorDC]

Destroy Geth of course. They are much bigger of a threat to human dominance.

[ElectronicFerret]

Seeing as their war was one whole big cluster**** and the geth view THEMSELVES as just caretakers until the quarians get back some common sense, I'd much rather be able to make peace between the two races.



After all, if the quarians will need a sterile world for awhile, who better to live with?

[Isaidlunch]

Well I'd like my efforts to create peace mean something, but if I had to choose it would be the Geth. The Quarians are completely to blame for the state they're in and if it ends up in war then it would be their choice because they're too arrogant to negotiate peace with the Geth. Their actions in the Morning War are forgivable but starting another war with the Geth that they know they'd likely lose just so they can have their pretty homeworld back would be beyond stupid and there's no way I'd help them in that.



The Geth believe in the Old Machines and know they're a threat, it's only logical that they would help Shepard so in that sense they're the more reliable ally. Sure would suck to let all those ships in the Migrant Fleet go to waste though.

[Busomjack]

Kazanth wrote...

Well I'd like my efforts to create peace mean something, but if I had to choose it would be the Geth. The Quarians are completely to blame for the state they're in and if it ends up in war then it would be their choice because they're too arrogant to negotiate peace with the Geth. Their actions in the Morning War are forgivable but starting another war with the Geth that they know they'd likely lose just so they can have their pretty homeworld back would be beyond stupid and there's no way I'd help them in that.

The Geth believe in the Old Machines and know they're a threat, it's only logical that they would help Shepard so in that sense they're the more reliable ally. Sure would suck to let all those ships in the Migrant Fleet go to waste though.

Yeah, it would be a shame but I think it would be great if the game forced you to make really hard decisions like this.  Just imagine, if you help the Geth destroy the Quarians their armies would probably be more beneficial against the reapers than the Flotilla but then you would have the blood of the entire Quarian race on your hands.

[Schneidend]

Why the hell would you want to destroy either of them?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Not unless there is a third choice to get both sides to get over it and find a solution.

[Busomjack]

I don't know if I mentioned this already but I also think it should be possible to cure the genophage.



If you do cure the genophage it will mean the Krogan destroying the citadel but they will join Shepard and form a massive Krogan army.



If you decide to let the genophage continue then the council will join you against the reapers although their fleet will not be as formidable as the Krogan.

[Busomjack]

Schneidend wrote...

Why the hell would you want to destroy either of them?

Because I want to see Tali's stupid face when I help Legion anihillate her species.  Seriously though it's because I like it when games force you to make hard decisions like destroying/keeping the collector base.

[mineralica]

Destroying? If it comes to conflict I'd simply kill quarians who wants war. About serious decisions - Virmire-like, save only one of them, will be o.k. And about Tali's face - my renegade in fic now enjoys the view of her face while entire race is turning into quarian reaper

[Destroy Raiden_]

For OP bear with me on this....



The geth weren’t exactly enslaved they where built with the sole purpose of doing things for the Quarians its like saying your refrigerator is enslaved by you using it or your computer is your slave because you use it in a lot of ways if your computer began to think and talk for itself is it enslavement? You have to figure out if it became not a thing and transformed into being more or less a person once it developed it’s self awareness the geth also do not share a death as living people do. A qualification for being a person is the awareness of you being alive and the awareness of your death geth do not experience death they simply get uploaded into another body so there is that too… are they considered only half alive and fully aware? I think the Quarians for 300 years have been struggling with such questions with a split in what the answer is until they can figure it out the geth are going to have a hard time with half the population. It doesn’t mean co existence is not possible it just means half the population will accept them while the other half will have to tolerate them and accept punishment if they can’t and commit a crime.



For 3 I guess if you para blue or ren red solved the conflict outright and helped both Tali and Legion on their missions you will be able to negotiate Rannoch and Quarian settlements the geth after all say they’re just maintaining them so they aren’t really even using them at this point their being underpaid gardeners. But if you didn’t blue/red win the conversation and you where forced to choose sides and didn’t win back whoever you lost then I would assume you’re picking a side (if not staying with who you choose) and fighting a war instead of talking to both sides. Which would be fun you’d also loose whoever you where fighting ie pick Tali/Quarians fight against all geth the geth are no longer available (NLA) for reaper war and may even wind up joining them. If you choose Legion/Geth then you fight the Quarians and either they’re NLA (dead and dieing) or they get indoctrinated by reapers and become a new forces to deal with in reaper war. In this case Tali may/may not be spared sense she’s on your ship she may leave if you fight the Quarians and become indoctrinated or stay on the ship and later betray you. Same goes for Legion he may stay and betray you or leave and die with his people.

[luakel]

Busomjack wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

Why the hell would you want to destroy either of them?

Because I want to see Tali's stupid face when I help Legion anihillate her species.  Seriously though it's because I like it when games force you to make hard decisions like destroying/keeping the collector base.

Would you kill her too or keep her around as the last quarian ever?

It'd be nice if there were a few more varying choices that take into account what you did previously instead of just a paragon choice, a renegade choice, a pro-quarian choice, and a pro-geth choice; that just seems like the Tali-Legion loyalty fight writ large. For example, I think Admiral Xen and her crazy Geth enslavement experiments are going to come back in ME3. She doesn't seem like the type to ally with Shepard whether he's renegade or paragon, too focused on her own gain. If/When you take her out, you could get the chance to take her research or not, with multiple choices that all have their own paths.

-Shepard could use the research to enslave the geth in the way Overlord was aiming for (possibly made easier if you downloaded Overlord and left David with Cerberus), getting the enslaved geth on your side and probably the quarians as well (since you could offer them Rannoch back easily).
-Shepard could give the research to the geth, which makes them angry and decide that the "creators" are too dangerous to be left alone, which either makes a war inevitable or only avoidable with the right previous choices.
-Shepard could give the research to the quarians, possibly in exchange for some help vs. the Reapers... not sure if the quarians would still try to re-enslave the geth, that could affect the post-game situation if nothing else.
-Shepard could just keep the research for himself or destroy it, which would effectively be zero-sum; some of Xen's supporters may get angry and try to turn the fleet against you, might have some effect on the geth too.

Some of these could open up further paths to brokering a peace between the two races, some might make that peace alot harder to attain. It would be nice to see lasting consequences, if only within the game; say, if you flip off the quarians somehow early on, then they are either uncaring or actively hostile later on. After all, this is it for the trilogy, so there need to be some major results from what the player's doing. I guess it would involve alot of coding for different choices & results, but the geth/quarian situation seems like one of the major things that needs to be resolved in ME3 along with the reapers, since it's been prominent since the first game.

[Destroy Raiden_]

I forgot about Xen and the Aleri yeah I'm pretty sure she's going to use it to sabotage the talks if not down right take her army to the Citadel and give us more problems if she does I hope its a multi level experience and she's a tough boss. Though I'd assume she'd be in a mech sense her suit gets ruptured and she dies I figure she'll want lots of guards and protection from Shep if this happens. Also I like your ideas luakel on different ways to use her research but I think something more needs to be done with the Shep keeps it angle I mean I kept the Cerberus data to later black mail them with it I wouldn't be able nor would I want to do this for the Quarians but maybe Shep keeps the data and can decide to destroy it or keep it to buy companies on Noveria and they make Shep exclusive weapons and defense items with it.

[SpectreSeven]

I'd try to unite them if I could, but if there was no other choice but to kill off one, I'd get rid of the Quarians.

[Praetor Knight]

v1K0 wrote...

I'd try to unite them if I could, but if there was no other choice but to kill off one, I'd get rid of the Geth.

That's what I'd do with no other alternative. Rise against the Machines...

[Inquisitor Recon]

Why not? But I would like to see more than two possible outcomes. I'm sure there will be the overly paragon-ish peace route but what about an outcome that benefits Shepard but hurts both the geth and quarians?