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[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

*suddenly has visions of a tough female warrior with short length hair walking into a room in which Hawke is tied to a torture rack*

"Hawke, darling, I was wondering why you was tied up..."

Cassandra: VARRIC! That is NOT how it happened!

Varric: Ooooh REALLY! Then perhaps you could tell YOUR version of the story.





The way the rivalry/friendship has been talked of, does kind of remind me a bit of AP. Am not saying they took the idea from that, just that it reminds me of it and considering that was one of the cool things about AP am really looking forward to seeing how something like that plays out in DA2.



Oh and UpsettingShorts IMHO the console version of AP sucked. I much preferred the PC version even if it was still buggy. I found it far easier to control Thorton on PC than I did PS3. As for DAO, I've played that on both PC and PS3 and whilst there is differences I didn't have any issues with either of them, so am hoping same applies for DA2 (as I have a feeling I might get it on both again... just as am getting ME2 for PS3 in January).

[AmstradHero]

DarthCaine wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

as neither that game nor Alpha Protocol had to plan for a sequel

Actually no, devs did want a sequel before release. However, Alpha Protocol turned out to be a financial failure disliked by both critics and fans alike.

I seriously doubt ME3 will have big consequences for your actions like Alpha Protocol or The Witcher. But I'd rather have less consequences than less playtime.

I don't believe I need to reiterate my stance on The Witcher and its much vaunted "consequences". Maybe one day I'll finish the game and find a consequence that isn't boring or trivial, but it's hard when the game is so interminably dull and poorly created.

Alpha Protocol was not disliked by all fans. I happen to think it's one of the better RPGs released in the past couple of years.  And you should note a severe disparity between US and EU reviews of the game.  Technically it sucks a bit, but the story and the characters actually have some depth.

Its consequences put most other modern titles to shame. The main problem is that those consequences aren't shoved in your face to say "Look, things would have happened differently if you'd done X instead of Y." It's not Obsidian's fault if players aren't smart enough to realise that making the reality believable and feel like it is "canon" no matter what choices you've made is a triumph and not a failure. From a gaming perspective it sells itself a little short, but in terms of quality of narrative, that's pretty much perfect.

I'd love to see other games take cues from Alpha Protocol on several design aspects. Obsidian showed some real innovation and means to push the boundaries. I wish more gamers had wanted it to be an RPG instead of a shooter.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 02 décembre 2010 - 11:38 .

[Vylan Antagonist]

DarthCaine wrote...

That's the thing. Devs need to balance their budget. By having more consequences, all the other features were half implemented (see my earlier post)

That's not true. I can see where you made that assumption, but Alpha Protocol's flaws were not a consequence of the choice structure at all. They were due to a combination of scope creep and poor direction from one of the company's financial founders. Rather late in the dev cycle, that person finally removed himself/was replaced as the project lead and another designer did his best to salvage a game out of what he'd inherited.

[Alexine]

Despite Alpha Protocol's flaws, I think they really did play the choices and consequences pretty well. And there were so many variations of the ending. What I had problems with trying to do a replay of DA:O was the fact that everything would be the same (Ostagar, Landsmeet, Denerim, Morrigan's offer, etc.) with the exception of the epliogue texts while Alpha Protocol's choices greatly affected the story plot, and depending on your choices, your allies can make surprising re-appearances. I was just replaying Alpha Protocol and discovered the money-maker ending (without revealing spoilers). I kind of hoped that DA2 would do something like this, as it is a sequel to DA:O, but we'll see.

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

*suddenly has visions of a tough female warrior with short length hair walking into a room in which Hawke is tied to a torture rack*
"Hawke, darling, I was wondering why you was tied up..."
Cassandra: VARRIC! That is NOT how it happened!
Varric: Ooooh REALLY! Then perhaps you could tell YOUR version of the story.

Oh haha! xD Next we need a boss who snorts coke and likes to stab people to death with speakers blasting in DA2.

Modifié par Alexine, 03 décembre 2010 - 12:02 .

[Urazz]

Alpha Protocal was pretty decent in my opinion. It had a pretty good storyline and the characters were had some depth and were written well I think. It's conversation wheel is Mass Effect based in my opinion but generally tends to be a slight improvement over it.



It was more like an Action-RPG like Mass Effect than an RPG. If anything, I hope Bioware and other RPG game makers learn from what it did right.



That's not to say that it doesn't have any problems that are detrimental to it. It has enough of those that it hurts it as a game a good deal, but those are more gameplay issues and bugs than bad plot/story.

[Busomjack]

Obsidian did a great job with Alpha Protocol's choice system. Still, the gameplay is really flawed. The AI sucks, the cover system doesn't work, the hacking mini games suck. I enjoyed Alpha Protocol but it had way too many problems for me to declare that it matches the quality of a Bioware RPG.

[Mykel54]

I enjoyed alpha protocol quite a lot, despite of the bugs. I was actually disappointed to find out that there won´t be a sequel to it, and that so many people criticised it to death because of it´s flaws.



Which is true there were many flaws, but i can´t stand the kind of people who complain about graphics and gameplay and never about history. I was impressed about how alpha protocol decisions worked out, and the high replayability, that i overlooked the technical flaws as i was more interested in the story thing rather than in the mechanics of the gameplay.



I find it sad that because of such technical flaws the game was a failure, a pity, because it was a step forward in the rpg world with fresh ideas and a very good example of decisions that matter in the end, and are not just some epilogue lines at the end of the game.

[nisallik]

Eh, Alpha Protocol was pretty decent. I didn't find it enjoyable enough to play it for a second time though. I had some very awkward bugs throughout the game that made the game really frustrating (PC version). The choices/consequences was a great idea for the game, but the lack of some type of downtime and the shortness of the game made it bland in a way. I would have to say my favorite part of the game was in-between missions when I could get to my computer to check my e-mail. ;p

[Vaeliorin]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...
I enjoyed AP, although I apparently happened to play it in one of the only ways reported to be particularly enjoyable (Sneak and Pistol).

My first playthrough was Sneak and Pistol.  My second was Assault Rifle and Shotgun, and it was incredibly fun (though the Branko fight was very, very hard.)

I also was very fond of the mini-games (it was nice that they were actually challenging, as opposed to ME2's mini-games.)

That said, there's a lot from AP I'd like to see carried over into other games.  Opponents I had actual respect for and disliked not the least among them.  Actually being able to side with differing factions was really nice too (nothing like busting into a mansion in a Stryker.  That was awesome.)  The fact that choosing to kill/not kill people actually mattered for once was a very nice thing as well.

The only thing I really disliked about AP was the dialogue system, that I feel failed entirely in allowing you to roleplay your character by giving you absolutely no clue what you were going to say.

[HoonDing]

What I really liked in AP was that getting certain NPCs to hate the main character would change the way the story went significantly.

Gameplay was completely broken, though, if you went with Pistols + Sneak. But I did not mind, since I generally hate shooters.

Modifié par virumor, 03 décembre 2010 - 12:25 .

[Busomjack]

nisallik wrote...

Eh, Alpha Protocol was pretty decent. I didn't find it enjoyable enough to play it for a second time though. I had some very awkward bugs throughout the game that made the game really frustrating (PC version). The choices/consequences was a great idea for the game, but the lack of some type of downtime and the shortness of the game made it bland in a way. I would have to say my favorite part of the game was in-between missions when I could get to my computer to check my e-mail. ;p

Yeah.  I think one of the funniest parts was when Heck sent you that extremely long winded, conspiracy laden rant and you could respond.

"Dear Steven Heck, shut the **** up."

M.Thornton.

[Crimson Invictus]

Most of Mike's email replies make him sound like he has limited social skills. The "suave" responses were simply terrible.

That's the polite version, should you be wondering.

Modifié par Liana Nighthawk, 03 décembre 2010 - 01:03 .

[DMC12]

So Alpha Protocol has broken gameplay, but good story telling, and it's made by Obsidian? Huh, where have I heard of this before? *Glance briefly at his copies of KOTOR2 and Fallout: New Vegas*

The faction changing aspect and dynamic choices I'm hearing about sound pretty cool though. I'd like for something like that to be implemented in DA2 as well.

Modifié par DMC12, 03 décembre 2010 - 01:09 .

[Crimson Invictus]

The storytelling wasn't that good and the dialogue was at times rather limp; it simply allowed you to make choices, but I should point out all but one of those choices ultimately makes very little difference in the end.

Modifié par Liana Nighthawk, 03 décembre 2010 - 01:20 .

[Maria Caliban]

Fallout: NV does not have broken gameplay.

[Nerivant]

Liana Nighthawk wrote...

The storytelling wasn't that good and the dialogue was at times rather limp; it simply allowed you to make choices, but I should point out all but one of those choices ultimately makes very little difference in the end.

This is how I felt about it. The dialogue was awkward at best, and the story  made me think of Inception; just because it's complicated, doesn't make it cool.

I still like it, though. Shame there won't be a sequel.

[DMC12]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Fallout: NV does not have broken gameplay.

Yes it does. There's no argument. You're eyes will eventually be opened, as were mine.

[Estelindis]

I enjoyed AP thoroughly (some interface and control issues aside). If DA2's framed narrative and attitude-based dialogue wheel are similar to AP's, I shall be very happy.

That said, I agree with those who have stated that the many rippling consequences of one's choices and the fact that one can advance the plot without necessarily knowing what's going on are the top strengths of AP. I'd like to see more of this in games generally, not just in DA2.

As a side point: Liana, unlike yourself, I found Mike's email answers *hilarious* (especially the "Dear Steven, please shut the **** up.  Yours, M. Thorton." what with it being an extraordinaryily restrained response to paragraphs and paragraphs of increasingly paranoid ranting).

Modifié par Estelindis, 03 décembre 2010 - 01:50 .

[Crimson Invictus]

Nerivant wrote...
I still like it, though. Shame there won't be a sequel.

I bought it on Steam for next to nothing, had I paid full price I would perhaps be less forgiving, but I found it quite enjoyable. Certainly nothing like the nightmare the general opinion of it would suggest.

Modifié par Liana Nighthawk, 03 décembre 2010 - 01:43 .

[flamesoul32]

I had a lot of fun with AP. Somehow I got the magical bug free version that only had the appearance of two minor bugs in as many plays through the game. I actually had fun with the gameplay and using different powers together with different gadgets and ammo (Phosphorus shotgun shells are awesome). The characters were a lot of fun although I do wish that they all got more screen time (Sis and Heck).

[Nerivant]

Liana Nighthawk wrote...

Nerivant wrote...
I still like it, though. Shame there won't be a sequel.

I bought it on Steam for next to nothing, had I paid full price I would perhaps be less forgiving, but I found it quite enjoyable. Certainly nothing like the nightmare the general opinion of it would suggest.

That's what got me, too. I cannot resist a Steam sale.

And even if I had bought it for full price, if I can look at it from the other end of a dark street in the middle of the night and make out the vaguest outline of Deus Ex, I'll play it, and dammit, I'll enjoy it.

[Shady314]

DMC12 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Fallout: NV does not have broken gameplay.

Yes it does. There's no argument. You're eyes will eventually be opened, as were mine.

It's gameplay is no more broken than Fallout 3. Snipers have always owned in Fallout games.

Also Alpha Protocol was a great game and a serious breath of fresh air. I pre-ordered, paid full price and would do it again.

Modifié par Shady314, 03 décembre 2010 - 01:59 .

[NRO TYN]

MAD WHITE HAM wrote...

So i just picked up Alpha Protocol last week and i have to agree... it's a pretty awful game.  Yet it does have one somewhat redeeming factor in the game that i hope they use in DA2 and that is the choosing of your factions. 

We don't know much about the plot of DA2 other than it's about Hawke becoming the champion of Kirkwall.  From what I have read on these forums and seen in the trailers, i have a sense that DA2 is going to be a slightly more politcal RPG. (Similiar to the choices the Warden commander made in Awakenings) With that being said, Alpha Protocol does a great job of having which faction you allie yourself with having strong ramifications on the out come of the game.

i sense that Kirkwall is going to be allying itself with other nations.  Hopeful Hawke gets to pick which nation he allies with and which he does not.  I think it would be interesting to see Kirkwall allie with Fereldan and Orlais... then see the ramifications of that decision.  Maybe we could even ally with the Tevinter Imperium to take on the Quinari invasion.  I just hope that the power of choice that was great in Alpha Protocol is used as a stepping point for DA2... and i hope they have better VO, gameplay, dialog, and just about everything else than Alpha Protocol

FINALLY.....A GOOD THREAD

[KendallX23]

the bad thing about Alpha Protocol was the gameplay...everything else i liked...was a good game and me is sad that i will not see Sis again.

but...what's the conection to DA II again ?

[Nerivant]

KendallX23 wrote...

the bad thing about Alpha Protocol was the gameplay...everything else i liked...was a good game and me is sad that i will not see Sis again.
but...what's the conection to DA II again ?

Framed narrative, dialogue system, consequences.

Modifié par Nerivant, 03 décembre 2010 - 02:12 .