94 réponses à ce sujet

[Schneidend]

Gleym wrote...

Just curious, since the thread title is 'evolving'. Is the definition of evolution to regress and move backwards? Cause then I can totally see how ME2's definition of an inventory is totally evolved beyond what's recognized as a standard inventory in this day and age, sure.

Just curious, but did you read the initial post or just the title? This has nothing to do with whether or not ME2's system is better than ME1's, or vice verse. The fact that you're so defensive about suggesting ME2's system might be superior is fairly telling, but that isn't what this thread is about.

This thread is operating under the reasonable assumption that Bioware won't revert to the ME1 system, but is willing to tweak the ME2 system. Christina Norman has expressed a desire to try and inject more "RPG elements" while maintaining ME2's excellent combat balance and pacing, and I believe her. Hence, this thread is here to provide an easily referenced list of fan suggestions regarding how the inventory can be tweaked for ME3. This is not a debate about which game in the franchise is better.

Anyway, on to some of the people who were actually paying attention:

@LPPrince: I think if we see more armor pieces with significant bonuses that make them actually worth equipping, like the Aegis pack's modules, the Strength Boost Pads, and those leggings that increase your Storm speed, modding our armor will be made largely redundant. The purpose of modding armor in the first game was to provide buffs to your character, to make up for drawbacks or optimize strengths. ME2's system does this already, just not overly well.

@Spamming Troll: Just having one or two mods per weapon would be making the same mistake as Fallout: New Vegas: a lack of variety and a feeling of proper customization. The only way customization can be meaningful is to have more mods than you have slots to equip them. Also, I doubt thermal clips are going anywhere, and I think they're a really good change, but I've been wrong before.

[RideUrLightning]

If we're only getting five per each then I want a crap load of MEANINGFUL upgrades for my weapons and armor.

[Schneidend]

While there's certainly a need for more mods than there are slots to equip them, the need for X (where X is a non-existent number that will please everybody) amount of "MEANINGFUL" upgrades will ideally be mitigated by having each of the five weapons in a category be more diverse.



Equipping mods is fun, but requires a delicate balance. The more types of mods you have, the greater the risk of completely breaking a game's balance.

[Googlesaurus]

Schneidend wrote...

More weapons. Each category having 5 weapons seems fair. And make each a different option with different strengths/drawbacks. They seemed to have been trying for that, but it just doesn't work in some instances. The Katana shotgun, for instance, has no redeeming qualities compared to the other shotguns. They all outstrip it entirely.

Agreed. Besides sniper rifles and submachine guns, it seems like we already have the vast majority of options in place. Some of them would have to be tweaked in order to fulfill a particular role. 

Schneidend wrote...

More armor pieces. A lot more. There simply aren't enough, even with the added DLC options, to sate an RPGer's lust for "phat loot."

A little hesitant on this. Getting armor pieces to complete a full set seems to beg the "run around to look for everything" mode that players didn't enjoy in ME1. How would you distribute the armor pieces in-game?

Schneidend wrote...

Better armor pieces, too. These need to have a larger impact on the game than making Shepard look cool. Buff the buffs, as it were. Anything less than a 10% boost to most values is nigh unto worthless.

I would also suggest adding additional bonuses to 'complete' sets of armor. 

Schneidend wrote...

Each armor piece should have some defensive stats. Some pieces could have raw damage reduction, others should boost Shield/Barrier, and some pieces should provide damage reduction solely for Shield/Barriers, similar to the Shield Hardening research in ME2. Each armor piece could have a modest bonus to one of these stats in addition to its main buff, and some pieces could simply have a larger defensive buff as their only bonuses for players who want to focus on taking less damage.

Yes.

Schneidend wrote...

More weapon and armor research, but make the old ones much more powerful. To
balance this, make research something that needs to be "equipped," with only a limited number of slots (we'll say three, for the sake of argument) in which to equip them. Each damage upgrade (20%, 35%, 50%, let's say) could take up a slot, forcing you to spend all your slots if you want that juicy 50% damage boost. Other options would have to be made just as tantalizing, however, like perhaps a spread decrease for shotguns, or a fire rate increase for assault rifles.

Little confused right here. Will this research be more similar to weapon mods or across-the-board ME2 upgrades?

[The Spamming Troll]

Schneidend wrote...

@Spamming Troll: Just having one or two mods per weapon would be making the same mistake as Fallout: New Vegas: a lack of variety and a feeling of proper customization. The only way customization can be meaningful is to have more mods than you have slots to equip them. Also, I doubt thermal clips are going anywhere, and I think they're a really good change, but I've been wrong before.

why would bioware make that mistake? i dont think thinking up more mods wouldnt be the problem. take a llok at ME1s weapons setup. ME1 has two weapon mods(not to mention ammo mods as well) and it functions fine. in terms of change, all wed have to do is eleminate ones that have been changed to ammo powers and add new ones similar to the few i mentioned. keeping ME2 weapons in mind, wouldnt it be great adding 2 weapons slots to add a laser sight, silencer, or maybe an accuracy booster? the only downfall is you lose having a choice in what is defines a weapons. thered be no need for the viper if you can put a scope of a mattock. i think having mods would add alot to the limited inventory, and give players another thing to play around with while leveling up.

i liked overheating weapons mainly beucase i never had to hit a reload buttong. i play on the 360 and buttons are limited. i love that ME2 has 3 mappable buttons, but i hope ME3 has a few more. anyways overheating weapons gave combat in ME1 a very distince feel to it. personally id like a combionation of the two.

i feel like ME3 is going to be more like ME2 : part 2.

[Sidac]

Schneidend wrote...




[*]Better armor pieces, too. These need to have a larger impact on the game than making Shepard look cool. Buff the buffs, as it were. Anything less than a 10% boost to most values is nigh unto worthless.

This is the only one I completely disagree with. With a cover system in both ME 1 and ME 2, there is no need to become so dependent on buffs as to warrent a buff of the buffs. If your standing out in the open, your doing it wrong. Also, wep damage increases can already take out enemies quick enough as well. MAYBE a sprint speed buff but thats about it.

Modifié par Sidac, 06 décembre 2010 - 12:56 .

[Googlesaurus]

sidac wrote...



This is the only one I completely disagree with. With a cover system in both ME 1 and ME 2, there is no need to become so dependent on buffs as to warrent a buff of the buffs. If your standing out in the open, your doing it wrong. Also, wep damage increases can already take out enemies quick enough as well. MAYBE a sprint speed buff but thats about it.

The cover system in ME2 is a crutch. We need more opponents that can charge or flank the squad.

[Sidac]

Googlesaurus wrote...

The cover system in ME2 is a crutch. We need more opponents that can charge or flank the squad.

agreed!

[Schneidend]

@Sidac: Except that, in the Mass Effect universe, defensive technologies have outstripped the penetration of conventional firearms. A Mess Effect soldier in heavy armor is almost a light tank in terms of modern warfare. The cover system became far too integral in ME2 for my tastes, defeating the purpose of any defensive research.



@Googlesaurus: Who complained about running around and looking for stuff? That's another important hallmark of RPGs. Besides, the armor can be distributed the same way as it is in ME2, through shops, which is hardly having to "find" anything.



As for the upgrade system that confused you, that idea would be to actually change the +10% damage boosts to equipped modules. As that's unlikely to happen, the alternative was suggested to keep the straight damage boosts as research.

[Googlesaurus]

Schneidend wrote...

@Googlesaurus: Who complained about running around and looking for stuff? That's another important hallmark of RPGs. Besides, the armor can be distributed the same way as it is in ME2, through shops, which is hardly having to "find" anything.

A lot of people didn't like it. It was more about the quality of the items you were picking up than the actual seeking them out, which is understandable. 

Scheneidend wrote...

As for the upgrade system that confused you, that idea would be to actually change the +10% damage boosts to equipped modules. As that's unlikely to happen, the alternative was suggested to keep the straight damage boosts as research.

I see. Thank you for explaining. 

[Manic Sheep]

Weapons

More unique weapons would be good but only if they can come up with more that aren’t redundant. I imagine this would probably be quite hard. I would rather have 2 very different weapons rather than 5 weapons but only 2 decent ones.

Armor

I agree they need more different armor pieces ad the current bonuses are rather pathetic and might as well not be there at all, however being the shallow shallow person I am I also like to customise for look. I think they either need to give each armour piece a noticeable bonus as you suggest or make them purely for look but give them upgrade slots.

Research

I agree, the upgrades in ME2 where rather boring and there was no customisation or trade off for anything. I just went thru and bought all the upgrades, didn’t need to think about anything. But really I don’t want too much to be dependent on upgrades, stats and equipment. A little bit of that is good but let’s not go overboard..

Companion armor

I don’t want comps to have their customisable armor in anything other than stats. I much prefer squadies to have a unique appearance specific to them that matches with who they are like they had in me2. It gives them more personality and generally means you can have something more detailed. It would be nice however if they had a casual appearance and a mission appearance or failing that all had something that was relatively practical. Much tho I may love Jacks design it looks ridicules in battle or areas where you should be wearing a protective suit and the’ rule of cool’ is not a valid excuse.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 06 décembre 2010 - 02:19 .

[Schneidend]

@Manic:

Weapons: I think weapons have enough stats that can be tweaked. Damage/shot, DPS, Rate of Fire, magazine capacity, spread, effective range, etc.



Armor: I prefer the armor to have innate bonuses, especially since the pieces' bonuses have in-lore explanations.



Research: A big problem with ME2 many people have is that the equipment could almost be entirely discounted. The game needs more of a balance between player skill and character power.



Companions: Your preference has been suggested as an alternative. Jack should wear graffiti'd armor, Thane should have something seek but protective, etc.

[Firesteel]

Manic Sheep wrote...

Weapons

More unique weapons would be good but only if they can come up with more that aren’t redundant. I imagine this would probably be quite hard. I would rather have 2 very different weapons rather than 5 weapons but only 2 decent ones.

Armor

I agree they need more different armor pieces ad the current bonuses are rather pathetic and might as well not be there at all, however being the shallow shallow person I am I also like to customise for look. I think they either need to give each armour piece a noticeable bonus as you suggest or make them purely for look but give them upgrade slots.

Research

I agree, the upgrades in ME2 where rather boring and there was no customisation or trade off for anything. I just went thru and bought all the upgrades, didn’t need to think about anything. But really I don’t want too much to be dependent on upgrades, stats and equipment. A little bit of that is good but let’s not go overboard..

Companion armor

I don’t want comps to have their customisable armor in anything other than stats. I much prefer squadies to have a unique appearance specific to them that matches with who they are like they had in me2. It gives them more personality and generally means you can have something more detailed. It would be nice however if they had a casual appearance and a mission appearance or failing that all had something that was relatively practical. Much tho I may love Jacks design it looks ridicules in battle or areas where you should be wearing a protective suit and the’ rule of cool’ is not a valid excuse.

weapons: Each weapon has a unique feel to it, and that is better than having 500 guns that all have various stats, but no real difference (a good example of depth and number of guns is borderlands), but some of them are redundant, but they are different enough to let players choose which feel they like more. More weapon customization is always better, I do like the ideas of custom scopes, mags, barrels, etc. and of course for us real nerds, custom pain jobs like on the armor.

Armor: I like ME2's armor system, but it needs more customization and variety, and more pieces with large buffs like the Kestrel set, which makes it the most worthwhile set, but having the old slots back would be great too.

research: I completely agree with you on this one.

Companion armor: I would like some hybrid between ME1 and ME2, some companion armor customization (how protective and bulky) but companions should have their own custom color schemes.

[The Spamming Troll]

^
weapons: ME3 doesnt need anymore guns then ME2 already has. just add 1 or 2 weapons mod slots to eahc weapons just like ME1. id love being able to mod the shotguns choke or the pistols rate of fire, or add a laser sight or silencer. we can add that extra customization to our sheaprds that ME1 gave us. i think ME3 needs to do alot more things ME1 did and this is something they could do for nastalgia. is nastalgia good enough?

armor: one word, "more."

companion armor: i like things being iconic which is why i like ME2s change to static weapons(though i wish they'd kept the overheating aspect). i dont want to change what or who they are and i dont think that option should be my choice.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 06 décembre 2010 - 05:32 .

[Schneidend]

Weapons: ME2 already has five guns for multiple categories of weapon. The problem is that some of them are underpowered or just aren't different enough. Also, there's no real need for silencers in a game with no real stealth gameplay and no intention of including anything more stealth-focused than the Infiltrator's signature power.



Armor: And "more useful."



Companion Armor: No reasonable person wants to change a character's personality, just the armor they wear into battle. Besides, your concern is already addressed by the alternative solution to just have companions wear something that suits their character but is at least protective and sealed.

[Schneidend]

Bumped, list edited slightly.

[Schneidend]

A rough draft of some armor pieces for you guys to nitpick, largely based on ME2's existing items:

Heavy Damping Gauntlets: +10% Shields, +3% Shield Hardening
Note: "Shield Hardening" functions like and stacks with the Shield Hardening research in ME2.

Stabilization Gauntlets: +10% Weapon Damage, +3% Damage Reduction

N7 Gauntlets: +6% Health, +5% damage reduction

Shield Harness: +15% Shields

N7 Chestplate: +10% Health, +8% damage reduction.
Note: Changed to be cumulative with matching N7 Gauntlets.

Capacitor Chestplate: +5% Power Damage, +10% Shields
Note: Changed to have a cumulative bonus with the matching Amplifier Plates.

Amplifier Plates: +5% Power Damage, +5% Shields

N7 Shoulder Guards: +8% Health, +7% damage reduction

Some basic ideas. Tried to make it so complete sets emphasized a particular set of bonuses.

Modifié par Schneidend, 07 décembre 2010 - 10:14 .

[haberman13]

The brahs and I are SICK and tired of having to figure out which weapons to use, it really puts a kill on our beer buzz.

For ME3 they should adopt what Fable 3 did, ME2 was WAY WAY too complex.

Also, when are we going to get competitive multiplayer?  This game would be perfect for it.

Modifié par haberman13, 07 décembre 2010 - 06:05 .

[haberman13]

Schneidend wrote...

Weapons: ME2 already has five guns for multiple categories of weapon. The problem is that some of them are underpowered or just aren't different enough. Also, there's no real need for silencers in a game with no real stealth gameplay and no intention of including anything more stealth-focused than the Infiltrator's signature power.

Armor: And "more useful."

Companion Armor: No reasonable person wants to change a character's personality, just the armor they wear into battle. Besides, your concern is already addressed by the alternative solution to just have companions wear something that suits their character but is at least protective and sealed.

Dude, quit QQing about that.  I MUCH prefer my companions to look sexy and hot than "ready for battle"... nerd.

[Schneidend]

I've had enough of your sarcastic utterances. *punch*

[CARL_DF90]

I hate inventories. Don't ever want to see them again.

[Schneidend]

Necromancy. I let the thread die so it could eventually be reborn to be gazed upon with a fresh set of eyes. The first page has a list amended by what's been discussed in the thread, so please peruse it at your leisure and post what you think, like, or dislike.

[Eromenos]

Toggle helmets off.

Do not force everyone to equip the newly-discovered weapons by default. Make it an option upon collecting one.

Speed up loading/interaction times for the inventory/research/squad menus on PCs. Also, these menus need to be accessible from anywhere if not in-combat.

We still need "caster-centric" armors for adepts, sentinels, and engineers.

Squadmates should be forced to wear pressure suits whenever an environment calls for them. A gas-mask hooked up to nothing will not help their eyes and body-cavities against vacuum or gases. Dress sensibly. High-heels, cleavages, and loose-hair should also be eliminated, unless situationally-appropriate for role-play as in during the Hock heist.

Do away with the mineral-scans and mini-games. Resource-collecting shouldn't be asinine/reptitive tasks unrelated to the narrative. ME1's one-click scans were better because they allowed a person to simultaneously read a planet or UFO's information while procuring currency. Discoveries back then also came with interesting tidbits about findings too.

Hell...just bring back omni-gel or allow for present techies to unlock things.

Modifié par Eromenos, 28 décembre 2010 - 03:13 .

[Sidney]

Schneidend wrote...

ME1 and ME2 have vastly different inventory systems. ME1's breadth was certainly its greatest strength, but also its greatest weakness. Getting close to a dozen worthless items per fight added up very quickly and made the system clunky and burdensome. Now, I'm not here to suggest ME2's method is better, as it also suffers in that its greatest strength, brevity, killed a lot of potential for depth.

The change was necessary, I think. They needed to start from scratch so they could look at it from another perspective. I believe that with ME2's system they discovered the base for a truly stunning inventory system for ME3. Perfection is just a few tweaks away:

• More weapons. Each category having 3-5 weapons seems fair. And make each a different option with different strengths/drawbacks. They seemed to have been trying for that, but it just doesn't work in some instances. The Katana shotgun, for instance, has no redeeming qualities compared to the other shotguns. They all outstrip it entirely.
• More armor pieces. A lot more. There simply aren't enough, even with the added DLC options, to sate an RPGer's lust for "phat loot."
• Better armor pieces, too. These need to have a larger impact on the game than making Shepard look cool. Buff the buffs, as it were. Anything less than a 10% boost to most values is nigh unto worthless. The Strength Boost Pads and the Aegis Pack's armor pieces are good examples. If a piece of armor only provides one buff, it should be significant, or it should provide multiple lesser buffs.
• Each armor piece should have some defensive stats. Some pieces could have raw damage reduction, others should boost Shield/Barrier, and some pieces should provide damage reduction solely for Shield/Barriers, similar to the Shield Hardening research in ME2. Each armor piece could have a modest bonus to one of these stats in addition to its main buff, and some pieces could simply have a larger defensive buff as their only bonuses for players who want to focus on taking less damage.
• More weapon and armor research, but make the old ones much more powerful. To balance this, make research something that needs to be "equipped," with only a limited number of slots (we'll say three, for the sake of argument) in which to equip them. Each damage upgrade (20%, 35%, 50%, let's say) could take up a slot, forcing you to spend all your slots if you want that juicy 50% damage boost. Other options would have to be made just as tantalizing, however, like perhaps a spread decrease for shotguns, or a fire rate increase for assault rifles.
• Alternatively, research could remain largely the same, to replicate a growth in raw damage output without giving us a billion weapons, but add equippable mods as well.
  
• Companions should have modular armor like Shepard's, both mechanically and in apppearance. Every piece Shepard finds should be a new piece for the entire squad. Failing that, just make sure they're all wearing something sealed and protective while in a mission zone.
• Omni-tools and amps could come back in some form. They should be similar to guns in that we only ever find a particular unit once. There would probably only need to be about three of each, one for cooldown, one for duration, and one for damage/newtons. These would provide bonuses in addition to tech/biotic research.

 This list is being edited with suggestions that suit it as the thread continues.

I actually dislike most of your ideas -- sorry. The notion that the "breadth" of ME1 was a strength seems odd to me. It was a total failure because there was a lot of trash and very little of any meaningful value - Predator and Spectre were all that anyone cared about after a short time and the rest was just trash. Much like early DAO where you piddle about with Steel vs Iron but once you get Starfang things are pretty much over for the game.

The variety of weapons is the best point you make, the DLC gave most of that variety but the "base" game didn't with functionally the "starter" gun and the "advanced" gun. Things like the Mattock vs the whatever the name of the uncontrollable automatic was made for interesting choices and the differences in pistols and SMG's were also good- shotguns didn't seem as well fleshed out after all the DLC and those sort of choices should be there from the start.

There is plenty of armor and the mix n' match quality means you have far more options at all levels than you had in ME1. I continue to see people talk about 5% and 10% don't matter but of course they do. In any scenario a 10% loss of damage matters a lot. What gets lost if that you can stack armor to be more protected or be a little more protected but also move a little faster. The choices based on combinations are a lot more powerful than simply having a suits of armor.  The % gains shouldn't matter because that is about game balancing and I never felt like, gosh I'm not powered up enough to take on whatever I'm facing.

The visuals of some of the companions in no atmosphere environments was silly and should be corrected - I kept wanting to see Jack and Miranda's eyes explode from their heads for example.