172 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Sten could have been a Qunari human, if everything else was precisely the same, I wouldn't see any difference. That's what I mean.

I don't think the experiences of a human who follows the qun would be the same as a (horned race) that follows the qun.

In fact, I doubt a human qunari would have been trusted enough to have Sten's job in investigating the Blight. The (horned race) doesn't think of human converts as true qunari.

If the people living in Orzammar had all been humans who simply worshiped the Stone and their ancestors, or if the Dalish elves had all been humans who lost their homes... same.

But they're not. We're talking about non-human companions in Thedas in Dragon Age games where being non-human matters. Not being non-human in a setting with only humans, which wouldn't be possible.

Non-human companions interest me in Thedas because in Thedas being non-human has a significant impact on one's view and experiences.

Not that I think people asking for a female elven companion are doing so for the same reason I find non-human companions inherently interesting.

[the_one_54321]

crimzontearz wrote...
about Velanna


Grey Delise is AWESOME, and the fact she voices Velanna in Princess Azula mode is even more awesome

I so hope she shows up in DA2

:O:O
OMG that's where I recognized her voice from!!! She does such an awesome job at voicing a [female dog]! I <3 her.

[Matchy Pointy]

I actually wanted Mithra as a companion, would ahve loved to have a dalish along and see her views of things, and from what we saw of her character, she seemed pretty cool.

[crimzontearz]

the_one_54321 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
about Velanna


Grey Delise is AWESOME, and the fact she voices Velanna in Princess Azula mode is even more awesome

I so hope she shows up in DA2

:O:O
OMG that's where I recognized her voice from!!! She does such an awesome job at voicing a [female dog]! I <3 her.

indeed....Velanna, Nassana, Princes Azula, Mandy........yeah, all her character or most of them are quite *****y

[upsettingshorts]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I don't think the experiences of a human who follows the qun would be the same as a (horned race) that follows the qun.

In fact, I doubt a human qunari would have been trusted enough to have Sten's job in investigating the Blight. The (horned race) doesn't think of human converts as true qunari.

This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.  My preference would be for horned Qunari qunari to not exist.  But I never intended for those preferences to be applied to my choice of squadmate, my only intention was to explain what I meant earlier.  What I mean is that those examples I listed could have been possible, and if they had I would have enjoyed the story more, or at the very least - on exactly the same level.  But they're not humans, obviously.

Maria Caliban wrote...

But they're not. We're talking about non-human companions in Thedas in Dragon Age games where being non-human matters. Not being non-human in a setting with only humans, which wouldn't be possible.

That may be the thread topic, but that wasn't what I was elaborating on when questioned about my post.   In any case, "Upsettingshorts' Preferences regarding races in fantasy" is not the thread title, so I won't go on.

Maria Caliban wrote...


Non-human companions interest me in Thedas because in Thedas being non-human has a significant impact on one's view and experiences.

Not that I think people asking for a female elven companion are doing so for the same reason I find non-human companions inherently interesting.

I just want interesting companions that bring their own personality and perspective.  The race they end up being isn't terribly important to me.  But by the way you put this part I think we mostly want the same thing.   What I don't get is the call for "female elf" or "female dwarf" or "male elf."  Those labels don't do anything for me. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 03 décembre 2010 - 04:47 .

[LadyJaneGrey]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I didn't even realize Qunari is a different race. I thought they were just very tall. Have to admit I am not very fond of reading codex entries either.

I like the Codex.  I just wish navigating it didn't make me want to throw my mouse in the general direction of whomever was responsible for designing its interface.

If reading the codex on the computer made you want to start chucking things, it's a good thing you never tried the console set up.

[upsettingshorts]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I like the Codex.  I just wish navigating it didn't make me want to throw my mouse in the general direction of whomever was responsible for designing its interface.

If reading the codex on the computer made you want to start chucking things, it's a good thing you never tried the console set up.

I heard about it, and if that had been my experience upgrade my tongue-in-cheek threat of violence in my original post to "strangle with the mouse cord."

[bsbcaer]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I didn't even realize Qunari is a different race. I thought they were just very tall. Have to admit I am not very fond of reading codex entries either.

I like the Codex.  I just wish navigating it didn't make me want to throw my mouse in the general direction of whomever was responsible for designing its interface.

If reading the codex on the computer made you want to start chucking things, it's a good thing you never tried the console set up.

I have to agree...getting a new codex entry and then having to go through every section and not being sure if you've accidentally scrolled over it and missed it does get a little (lot) annoying.  I had the same issue with getting new items as well ater a while

[bsbcaer]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I heard about it, and if that had been my experience upgrade my tongue-in-cheek threat of violence in my original post to "strangle with the mouse cord."

Trust me, if my360 controller had a cord to the console, I would be tempted on strangling the one responsible with the cord!

[Selene Moonsong]

The thing is, a companion is a companion and are usually brought together for a reason in BioWare games. There have been plenty of elven female companions in past BioWare cFRPGs, and I don't think it is necessary in every game release, despite my own preference for Elves as a race in a cFRPG.

BG: Jaheira (Half-Elf). BGII SoA & ToB: Viconia (Drow), Arielle (Avariel Elf), Jaheira (Half-Elf). NWN: Linu (Elf Cleric). HotU: Aribeth, Linu, Nathyra (Drow). These were not only companions but romantic interests as well for male PCs at some point in the series of games.

So, in some ways, they were almost over-done in the past, and we did get female elf companions in both Awakenings and Witch Hunt.

Let's just wait and see what develops as we eventially learn new information over the next few months, I certainly don't see a compelling need for yet another female elf companion in DA II.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 03 décembre 2010 - 04:57 .

[Matchy Pointy]

I support a female elf companion, if she isn't just a female elf, but a "real" person, with interesting personality who just happnes to be a female elf on the side, so to speak.

[Maria Caliban]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.  My preference would be for horned Qunari qunari to not exist. 

Yes, I understand what you're saying.

Upsettingshorts: I prefer fantasy without non-human races. The differences between people can be based on environment and culture.

Did you understand what I said?

[Ziggeh]

PsychoBlonde wrote...
If you use human phenotypes as your different groups, you're going to end up with charges of racism no matter how well you handle it.  Having racism vs. elves or dwarves or orcs in your game seems to fly.  Having racism against blacks or arabs in your game is gonna cause issues.  Well, maybe, it probably depends on the game.

I actually find it slightly wierd that it works, that people don't associate the two, but I suppose you can't argue with what works. I'd like to think I was reasonable enough to handle human racism on the basis that it's set in a non progressive society, but I can understand that's not going to be the case for a lot of folks, and you'd probably end up bogged down in the outcry.

PsychoBlonde wrote...
I think the reason why we get a bunch of humans and then one person of each other race is that the other races are generally shown to be culturally homogenous (or close)--so any dwarf can "represent" the dwarven race--but you need like 400 humans to "represent" the human race.  Maybe more.

This is the problem I always have with it, it's a useful tool that's usually wielded clumsily. When the defining characteristic of someones personality can be summed up by stating their race (which is what 'pants is talkin' 'bout) little sirens go off in my head. It strikes me as lazy and somewhat racist in itself, suggesting that the entirety of a culture can be represented by a single stereotype.

DA is pretty good about it, as you say, their cultures are reasonably homogenous, their personlities more defined by their social positions than race per se, but even within that we get some stark contrasts. It's more science ficton races that tend to ****** me off. Star Trek being the classic.

[upsettingshorts]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Did you understand what I said?

Maria: I want non-human companions in Dragon Age 2 because they've been established as having a unique perspective on their world that humans in Thedas don't necessarily have.

And if that's what you're saying, I agree with you. 

I  just don't want an elf, dwarf, or qunari for the sake of it though.  

[slimgrin]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Maria: I want non-human companions in Dragon Age 2 because they've been established as having a unique perspective on their world that humans in Thedas don't necessarily have.

Exactly.

But moonsong has a point. I just haven't played those games which had a wealth of female elven companions

[Maria Caliban]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Did you understand what I said?

Maria: I want non-human companions in Dragon Age 2 because they've been established as having a unique perspective on their world that humans in Thedas don't necessarily have.

And if that's what you're saying, I agree with you. 

I  just don't want an elf, dwarf, or qunari for the sake of it though.  

Exactly. I wasn't attempting to argue with you. Simply stating why I like non-humans.

Edit: One of the things I'm worried about in DA 2 is that the people of the Free Marsh will be generic humans. The lore said that the people of Ferelden were barbarians with heavy influence from germanic and norse culture. They never felt that way to me.

I mean, I knew they liked dogs and that one b*tchy Orlesean woman said Denerium smelled. Which is sort of strange as I thought she was from the fantasy version of late middle-ages Paris.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 03 décembre 2010 - 05:29 .

[Apollo Starflare]

One of the reasons I want a female Dalish warrior is because I want a companion that speaks in a Welsh accent to go with the fact we've not journeyed with an Elven warrior for a significant amount of time. I find their culture interesting and I can imagine a variety of ways in which one could be written in quite a different way to any other female DA character upto this point, particularly the Elven ones.

I agree with DG et al though, the idea behind the character obviously has to be more than just their race or gender etc. But I often find that when thinking of a character within such a well defined world these details quickly present themselves after the concept is thought of anyway.

[nightcobra]

 maybe someone like this?





but to be honest i'd like a warrior commander as an party member/LI (besides aveline)

[My Avatar is a turtle]

Elf girls also had better butts in Origins

[Captain Iglo]

David Gaider wrote...

something about elves
.

I always wondered....are the important characters we see in game all born trough your hand and then passed on to co writers and design team...or does sometimes the design team (or Mike Laidlaw) gives you a character you shall breath life into. Or that somebody at top of  you in the Bioware "chain of command" is saying: "We need that kind of character, make it happen!" ?

[David Gaider]

Captain Iglo wrote...
I always wondered....are the important characters we see in game all born trough your hand and then passed on to co writers and design team...or does sometimes the design team (or Mike Laidlaw) gives you a character you shall breath life into. Or that somebody at top of  you in the Bioware "chain of command" is saying: "We need that kind of character, make it happen!" ?

Yes.

[nightcobra]

David Gaider wrote...

Captain Iglo wrote...
I always wondered....are the important characters we see in game all born trough your hand and then passed on to co writers and design team...or does sometimes the design team (or Mike Laidlaw) gives you a character you shall breath life into. Or that somebody at top of  you in the Bioware "chain of command" is saying: "We need that kind of character, make it happen!" ?

Yes.

you can't get much simpler than that:P


ps: on a serious note, yes to all points?

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 03 décembre 2010 - 05:53 .

[PsychoBlonde]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

DA is pretty good about it, as you say, their cultures are reasonably homogenous, their personlities more defined by their social positions than race per se, but even within that we get some stark contrasts. It's more science ficton races that tend to ****** me off. Star Trek being the classic.

You mean that the cultures in DA are reasonably heterogenous, not homogenous.  (Hetero prefex = different, ****** prefex = same, think heterosexual = like different sex, while homosexual = like same sex). In a way, this is set up by having the heterogenous racial cultures contain several subcultures which are themselves somewhat homogenous--in theory at least.

Since Origins was the "setup game", of course we were going to get the most "stereotypical" companions there, and even then we didn't.  Oghren and Zevran were far from "typical" examples of their races.  Zevran was born into quasi-slavery that could very well have been identical for a human in a similar position.  His strongest self-identifications were as "assassin" and "Antivan", not as "elf".  And broken-down drunken fighters are pretty much the same whether or not they're dwarves.

In the case of the elves and dwarves in Origins, the "typical" representative character wasn't any of the companions--it was the PC, if you chose one of those origins.  Which was very interesting indeed.

[IRMcGhee]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Captain Iglo wrote...
I always wondered....(snip)

Yes.

you can't get much simpler than that:P


ps: on a serious note, yes to all points?

Bet he just answers "Yes" again

Either he's been comparing notes with Evil Chris or Bioware's staffed by Vorlons.

Modifié par IRMcGhee, 03 décembre 2010 - 06:11 .