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Why is 'Mission Complete' hated?


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#226
AlanC9

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Terror_K wrote...

 The "Mission Complete" screens are jarring and sudden, serving to ruin the glow of the narrative and gameplay, reminding you that this is a game and taking you out of it not just by appearing suddenly, but by chopping the game into mini chunklets and making it feel less like a living, breathing world and more like a game with levels or zones.


Meaning that they break an illusion, I guess.

I think the reason I prefer the mission complete screens is that I started with PnP RPGs. Doing a handwave over miscellaneous maintenance tasks at the end of an adventure is pretty much the standard method. 

#227
Terror_K

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AlanC9 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

 The "Mission Complete" screens are jarring and sudden, serving to ruin the glow of the narrative and gameplay, reminding you that this is a game and taking you out of it not just by appearing suddenly, but by chopping the game into mini chunklets and making it feel less like a living, breathing world and more like a game with levels or zones.


Meaning that they break an illusion, I guess.

I think the reason I prefer the mission complete screens is that I started with PnP RPGs. Doing a handwave over miscellaneous maintenance tasks at the end of an adventure is pretty much the standard method. 


As much of a PnP RPG fan I am, when it comes to Mass Effect it's as much about trying to lose yourself in a great sci-fi universe that's presented in a cinematic way, and that's why I feel the "mission complete" screens horribly jar, and why I said earlier that it's more because of the cinematic nature of Mass Effect that they're an issue rather than an old school RPG factor (after somebody in here started accusing those of us who didn't like it of doing so simply because it clashes with our RPG love, or some such nonsense). To me, when you're trying to make something as immersive as possible, you don't go throwing unnecessary things like that in there that get in the way and ruin that. And it is unneccessary, when one considers the first game avoided it and other (even more hardcore) RPGs such as Dragon Age: Origins, KotOR and Fallout don't do it.

The thing is, when you've set up something that's supposed to be more than just another game and be something a little more you can lose yourself in it's a bad move to be doing stuff like this, and there are generally other alternatives to getting the information across. Mass Effect was always supposed to be very cinematic, and kind of be not so much a game as it was an interactive epic sci-fi space opera you could control and delve into, and so while it was like an interactive movie it was also a little deeper and let you explore the world a little more beyond the confines of cinematic standards, so that rather than experiencing just the narrative and story and characters you experienced the universe as a whole and actually got to penetrate the outer layer a little more.

The game and RPG was always there, but it kind of floated on the surface and was only really there where it needed to be and when the user wanted it to be. The devs did such a fantastic job in the first game of balancing the game, the interactive cinema and the extra freedom the player had. The game only really appeared when you needed or wanted it to, and was rather subtle when it didn't, and never obtrusive. They did a good job of trying to keep the flow with things like elevators and decontamination zones, the loading screens that existed were few and contextual with what happened and the whole thing just kept a really good flow that wasn't interrupted. It's as if they were doing their best to make sure the strings weren't showing where they could and how they could.

ME2 just didn't seem to care about this as much, despite claims from the devs of trying to make it more immersive by removing more of the game from the experience. The loading screens are pretty much just that now: loading screens, and don't do enough to hide what they are. The areas are more limited, smaller and level-like. The information pop-ups are no longer subtle and small, instead now with large pictures that are impossible to miss. When you're close to death big veins streak across the entire screen. Squaddies run around in silly, Hollywood-esque get-ups all the time. And the "Mission Complete" screens are another example of this, and just completely halt any form of flow or build-up and immersion that may have been formed up until then.

It's as if in their attempt to "not worry about labels, and just make a good game" they've just turned the whole thing into that: a game. Where the first tried it's best to be more of an interactive experience, the second just tries too hard to be a game, and it's like the focus has shifted and thanks to all these changes we've got more of a game that's less immersive than the first. Again, despite claims that they wanted to go for more immersion by having the game get in the way less. It hasn't worked at all and has had the opposite effect. Not only do these screens suddenly halt the action, but they take what was once supposed to be a big, living, breathing universe that felt vast and as if you were in there experiencing it and turns it into little chunklets and levels. Rather than a big open universe we've gone back to visiting Illium as if it's the original Sonic the Hedgehog game to do Star Light Zone 1, 2 and 3 when doing Miranda' Loyalty Mission, getting Samara and getting Thane.

How can you immerse yourself into a movie properly when it's constantly broken up by ads on television, there's a one-minute intermission every 10 minutes or so or you're watching it on a DVD but the phone keeps ringing? It's the same thing.

Modifié par Terror_K, 09 décembre 2010 - 09:02 .


#228
implodinggoat

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I don't think its really a big deal; but I definitely disliked the ME2 mission complete screens.



Having a summary of what you did and what loot you got during a mission isn't a bad thing; but it needs to be done in a way that fits within the game world. I think the ME2 Mission Complete screens were trying to somehow allude that Shepard was reporting to the Illusive Man after each mission; but since it wasn't done in the form of a cutscene it came across more as just some random screen in a videogame.



My suggestion would be to change the mission complete screens for ME3 so that they look more like a mission report that Shepard has written up on his computer (maybe with some attached correspondence from the Alliance, the Council, or Cerberus). That would provide the information concisely; but would still keep the player more immersed in the world.

#229
uzivatel

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Because the same Shepard who disconnected the Council is going to write them report after every side mission.

Oh, and the game totally needs more of those thrilling "you have a new message ...".

#230
keldana

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TheNexus wrote...
Yeah but, what's the alternative? Loading has to occur somewhere.


Played Singularity ??? A game with nearly no game loading screens. A lot of things are possible if you know what mission is next ... you could do a lot of loading "behind" ...

#231
The Spamming Troll

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AlanC9 wrote...

You don't like reading the information on the mission complete screen. Therefore, nobody else should be allowed to see that information? You're serious?



id rather that information be presented in a different way. bioware could have made that information available in those futuristic email hings, or somewhere in the menu screen. im not saying i want the idea removed, seeing stats can be interesting, but it completely takes out of my imersion, and looks very out of place. maybe thats the direction bioware is going with the ME franchise tho. they might want to add some of those oversized swoardsa and long pointy hair.

#232
Evil Johnny 666

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ThePatriot101 wrote...
Although, it gives me the reassurance of knowing that people take more clout in complaining about the minor bits than challenging the popular opinion which is that ME2 is a very very great game.  It let's me know I'm on a better standing, siding with a game that gives me a very satisfying experience rather than letting minor gripes get to me and my preconceptions of a "great" gaming experience.


Well, I could argue that I find ME2 solely great. But it would be too long, I'd rather not and I could just link someone's else thoughts on the game.

Still, one of the reasons why the MC screens irritates me is probably more when taken into account with other similar type of things I don't like in ME2. No more fluid exploration (ie. loading screens everywhere and less... "immersive" as in ME1 (spinning Mass Relay for example), you can't enter/exit Normandy by foot. Every mission related hub world places are disconnected and few others. The game just lost something in particular that made me love ME1 so much. ME1 was quite flawed, but it was a rough gem, rough but still a gem. The immersive elements I talked of (elevators, entering/exiting the Normandy, etc.) is one of those cases of "all the little things" that adds up in end. But still, not my biggest gripe with ME2.



@Terror_K, I think you put it perfectly, particularly the "hiding the strings" part. In ME1 it felt as the developpers were truly trying to achieve this, in ME2, it feels as if they forgot about this and didn't bother with it.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 10 décembre 2010 - 12:08 .


#233
catabuca

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I think the key thing emerging here isn't that we don't want the information contained in the current MC screens to be there at all, only that we feel the presentation of it could be improved. It's a testament to how much we love BioWare's cinematic storytelling that we want them to do more of what we know they're good at.

This isn't about demanding x or griping about y for the heck of it. This is about discussing an area (or areas) of the game that perhaps didn't work as well for us, and discussing ways in which we would have preferred to see it executed. It would be a truly great feat if we all loved all aspects of the same things. It is not constructive to say things like "OMG I can't believe you didn't like x!" Why can't you believe that? Can you believe that some people like tea and yet others prefer coffee? Of course you can. Why is this different?

In ME1 I was consumed by the universe and the story. It carried me along and very rarely pulled me out of it. With hindsight, once the elements that made it work so well are gone, it's easy to see what they were. At the time it was all just part of the experience. And so, yeah, sure, people moaned about elevators. But they were long and after a time you ended up listening to the same banter or the same news. The loading screens are just as long, and there's no new info there either. What's more, the loading screens pull you out of the game. I think with hindsight some of us can see that we would have preferred the elevator loading scenes to have been improved, with more interactivity perhaps, more squad banter, the opportunity to access data on our omni-tools, and the like, to mitigate the inevitable loading we know has to happen, but to keep us in the game, rather than waiting outside.

#234
Evil Johnny 666

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Personally, if anything would be done with the MC screen, at all (even if it's accessible from the computer), I'd just scrap the whole thing if I were them. Because seriously, do you think even half the people playing ME2 look at it? Even those who are more interesting in ME2's simplicity and action would just not check it at all in any form. What information do you get? What you got in a mission. Credits? You can see how many credits you have anytime, why would you want to know how many you earned in a specific mission? Same for the elements. The only thing which is slightly useful is the researches you found so you can know if you missed any directly (without accessing the research screen and count everything). Otherwise why check them there since you can just walk a few seconds (because you always end up in your ship afterwards) and open the reaearch screen and see ALL those you have. It's completely useless. It's not because it does something that it's relevant. ME2 is the only RPG I know which uses such thing and it's one of the simplests, it's not like there's plenty of little important things you could forget about. The screen even tells you what was the objective of the whole thing, if you didn't know it... This is me speaking from a perspective totally disconnected from my  about immersion, the MC screen is just... there. It takes disc space, it takes little seconds to close... taking it into your personal computer would still make the thing take disc space. Plus, why would you need this incorporated into your pc if you could just walk to the research computer to see EVERYTHING you have, instead of what you just got, it would kind of nullify the sole purpose of the MC; to have it in the face after completing a mission instead of walking 5 seconds.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 10 décembre 2010 - 01:58 .


#235
Guest_Bennyjammin79_*

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I don't want to see it gone because I don't like it; I want to see it gone because it's not necessary.

#236
Budskee

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It's funny, I came to this thread wondering the same thingas OP, but the first couple of posts actually do make great points, so now I'm kind of in that same crowd now lol.

Modifié par Budskee, 10 décembre 2010 - 05:37 .


#237
Kane-Corr

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I think a great way for us to see the information is to......have our Shepards eat a senzu bean-thing like in Dragon Ball z...and it will make our shpeard stronger after every mission...but it will be like the loading screens....ingest...





then it goes all techy and stuff....



then we see the pill-senzu bean-thing travel down his throat....and then all of teh stats get absorbed in his tummy...



it is only in this way that we will truly understand the stats that we've gained...AND, we get a loading screen out of it!





Who is with me?! Let us make a revolutionary change in teh game we have all come too know and love!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#238
INSAN3SOLDIERN

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As far as breaking immersion, I'd say the fact that you can't toggle helmets on/off during missions and the fact that the Normandy leaves whatever planet you are on every single time you complete a mission, even when you still have business on the planet(such as the professor/archangel missions on Omega) to be far more annoying.



Don't get me wrong, though. I'm nowhere near as anal as everyone else. But, these things I mentioned are worse because they aren't solved by simply clicking a button. Especially the helmet thing, you're stuck the entire mission like that and even during situations where the helmet doesn't fit a conversation and vice versa.

#239
2kgnsiika

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Mission complete screen: NOT a big deal, but I don't like it. I get that it's supposed to sum up T.I.M.'s thoughts on missions, but it's a really cheap and annoying way of doing it. The player is supposed to be Shepard 100% of the time, so giving him the point-of-view of someone else really does break the immersion, if only for a few seconds.

But what I hate is when people make it into a big deal. The majority of the ME2 experience was pure awesone, and I hope the good people at BioWare have enough self-esteem (and they should with all the reviews and awards ME2 has been getting!) to realize that 90% of the people on the forums are just obsessive, nitpicking aspies, who do not represent the majority of ME fans.

EDIT: spelling

Modifié par 2kgnsiika, 13 décembre 2010 - 11:32 .


#240
Hathur

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Never liked the "Mission Complete" summary screen.. ME1 didn't have it... ME2 added it and it was a jarring experience... as if I just cleared a level in Super Mario Bros. rather than having just saved a colony of humans.



It seems reaaaallly out of place... seriously, add that screen to Dragon Age every time you finish a quest.... it would really slap you in the face with a "Wtf?" moment.



Mission Complete fits fine in a Starcraft match, or a platformer game.. or at the end of a multiplayer match in Halo / COD.... But in a story-rich RPG like Mass Effect 2? Ugh... I could never understand how that got cleared by the game designers.