197 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

As for evil it has to be denying Morrigan the sperm she wanted.

It's...evil to not give Morrigan a chance to have an OGB? We don't know that this is the savior of mankind here. It's not like she wants a baby because she loves children. It is a HUGE risk. How is not doing it evil, especially if you're willing to US?

[Marvin_Arnold]

Evil: First befriending or romancing Alistair and then having him executed at the Landsmeet.

It's the equivalent of kicking a puppy to death.

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 04 décembre 2010 - 10:16 .

[Zjarcal]

The Water God wrote...
sadly they didn't give you dialouge options for those other reason you wanted to kill him. All they gave you was "Hey I hear you're making a killing. Me too!" *Stabbity kill kill*

Well, the thing is, not everyone takes the dialogue options literally. Many people choose to imagine different dialogue lines that better represent their motivations.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 04 décembre 2010 - 11:08 .

[ihateriddles]

Sarah1281 wrote...

CE Origin you can leave Shianni lying on the floor after being raped and letting her get raped again as well as letting all the other members of the bridal party get raped (and at least one more of them killed) in exchange for 40 sovereigns.

and you never get the money either

[Sarah1281]

ihateriddles wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

CE Origin you can leave Shianni lying on the floor after being raped and letting her get raped again as well as letting all the other members of the bridal party get raped (and at least one more of them killed) in exchange for 40 sovereigns.

and you never get the money either

You can, actually. Just choose the dialogue option about hiding the money when Soris asks if you did the right thing.

[ihateriddles]

Sarah1281 wrote...

ihateriddles wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

CE Origin you can leave Shianni lying on the floor after being raped and letting her get raped again as well as letting all the other members of the bridal party get raped (and at least one more of them killed) in exchange for 40 sovereigns.

and you never get the money either

You can, actually. Just choose the dialogue option about hiding the money when Soris asks if you did the right thing.

and you get it when?

[Sarah1281]

Too bad imagining different lines doesn't help to change your companions approval much.

If Alistair or Leliana were to disapprove of killing the merchant for the lulz then they would likely still disapprove of killing him for whatever other reason you could have since he doesn't attack you first.

[Zjarcal]

Glaucon wrote...
Because a thing is a law does not make it right.  Connor is just a child who's made a childish mistake.  The abomination is evil true but that does not make Connor evil.  The test is only given to certain Magi and those that appear incapable of becoming a full Mage are offered the Tranquil as an alternative.  It is even implied that the Magi test is sometimes used to rid Ferelden of impure (not necessarily evil) Magi.

Your second example is an evil thing to do true.  But killing Connor looks like an act of apathy toward both good and evil which to me, is, in a sense worse.

ETR

How is it an act of apathy to take the only safe route in that particular situation? Doing the blood ritual requires that you send a mage alone into the fade, which while we know turns out fine, is a pretty damn big risk at the moment. Not to mention that you don't even know if said ritual will work. And depending on the character you're playing, involves "icky" blood magic (not an issue for my characters but certainly an issue for others).

And taking the tower option is in my opinion apathetic towards the good of the entire village, which is exactly the way Isolde has been acting. You're leaving a demon, who has already caused so much chaos, on the loose to take a trip that will at the very least take two full days (assuming you already completed the Circle quest).

Considering what the demon had been doing night after night, it's a HEAVY risk and hardly a sensible option if one's taking the good of the entire village, and not just one child, in consideration.

While I agree that Connor is not the true responsible in this situation, his life is not worth more than all of those who have also died or those who could potentially die if one takes the alternatives to killing him.

So my point is not so much saying that trying to save Connor is bad, but that killing Connor is most certainly not an evil choice or an "act of apathy toward both good and evil". Of course, this all depends on the motivations of the character.

[ejoslin]

Conner (well, and wynne) is the only abomination you run across that you don't attack and kill. All the abominations in the circle tower... kill on sight. no one is suggesting going to the fade and saving those mages. Are you evil for this? Of course not.



Conner, as the son of a noble, I suppose can be viewed as a bit more important than those other possessed mages you kill (though i don't see it that way). But if you don't trust Jowan (and you have absolutely no reason to trust a blood mage who poisoned the Arl), and you don't trust the demon to stay dormant for the couple of days it will take to go to the circle (provided you haven't sided with the templars beforehand), killing Conner is the safest, most sensible decision.



heartbreaking? of course. But you know, all those mages who have demons put in them and are killed -- are they really less important? Connor is a mage who has shown he cannot withstand a demon. what surprises me most is that the mage circle is willing to go and help -- I suppose, again, because a noble is considered more important than a non-noble.

[Sarah1281]

What do you mean by not trusting Jowan? Not trusting that he's capable of doing it? It's not like he's going into the Fade so he can't make a deal with the demon to get it to leave like Irving worries he'll do if you take the Circle option and so what does trust have to do with it? All he does is send someone into the Fade. Do you think he'll use his blood magic ritual to try to kill you all instead?

[Ryzaki]

Huh? I thought the circle was willing to help because the PC had stopped the Templars from slaughtering them all? I say that had a lot more weight in their decision then Conner being a noble.

Conner is also a child not many want to see an innocent child suffer if they can do something about it. (There are mage children who don't seem to be possessed and were being proteted by Wynne and a few other mages).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2010 - 04:22 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

What do you mean by not trusting Jowan? Not trusting that he's capable of doing it? It's not like he's going into the Fade so he can't make a deal with the demon to get it to leave like Irving worries he'll do if you take the Circle option and so what does trust have to do with it? All he does is send someone into the Fade. Do you think he'll use his blood magic ritual to try to kill you all instead?

Teagan seems to believe so. But I don't see the point. Jowan could have escaped once we free him and yet he stayed. Was it only to kill us? What purpose would that serve?

Not saying that there are no reasons to distrust him, but there are  also reasons why someone would trust him to do that ritual.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Glaucon wrote...
I find the decision to kill Connor apathetic toward good and evil.

Every single choice in the game can be looked at amorally. In fact, that's how I look at every single one of them (and yet I don't choose to kill Connor).
So I don't think that choice holds the monopoly over that.

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Kill them? That's the alternative? And what, hope the guards outside the alienage who presumably saw him enter developed amnesia, I suppose.

If they don't find the body they can't place the blame on anyone. Urien ( who is the only one who can purge the Alienage ) would likely not have acted if he had no real proof.

A disappearance doesn't equal to murder, just bear that in mind.

(Husband)

The elves being serfs would not get "innocent until proven guilty" justice but Napoleanic style justice.

[Addai]

The Water God wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

See the Kolgrim descion is just silly.
"I dont want to fight more of them!"

You just killed like 60 of them on the way here, how many can honestly be left?

God I wish they would've given more warning about pouring blood on the sacred ashes is the equivalent to taking a ****** on Jesus's holy grail.

I mean Leliana knew why we were taking the vial why didn't she say something like "What are you fricken' crazy!" as soon as Kolgrim handed me that vial. Not wait till the mintue i'm at the urn to have an outburst like that and kill my warden. The first time I went through the game that really suprised me.

(husband)

I think the game designers thought it was intuitively obvious because the Ashes after all are a religious artifcact and thus Holy.   So having a crazy dragon cult reappropriate them using blood (which has its own negative connotations in game with blood magic), would be something most people might suspect would be a bad idea...

Not to mentiion there is how players, web sites and strategy guides etc.  refer to the act as "defiling" the ashes...


Of course if you weren't really paying attention at the time.... Or you have no religious back ground at all and can't relate to any of this then all bets are off I guess.

Modifié par Addai67, 05 décembre 2010 - 09:59 .

[Herr Uhl]

Sacrificing Isolde for demon sex.



Always.

[ihateriddles]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sacrificing Isolde for demon sex.

Always.

punching isolde and then stabing connor

[ejoslin]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Skimmed recent posts - so if I missed this point forgive me.

But mages who take the Harrowing have had 20 years (give or take) of training to wield magic and resist demons. At some point the Enchanters decide that a mage is ready for the Harrowing, or just will never be ready and should be forced Tranquil (ie: Jowan).

So anyone who implies Connor should be killed because he couldn't resist the demon . . . no child likely can or would. They don't know what's going on. Connor just knows he has the power to save Daddy. Amalia just met this neat kitty who makes her feel all good and tingly.

And we know through metagaming, of course, that once Connor grows up he actually is an expert on the Fade, he understands the dangers of demons better than most mages and he passes his Harrowing easily. So again . . . let the kid grow up and train him as he grows before judging him unfit.

So anyway - I think the idea that Connor could not resist the demon and therefore should be executed FOR THAT REASON is kind of silly.

Any other child would be.  Any other abomination would be.

This is a basic tenant of the religion and law of the land.

And I guess I should make it clear that I rarely kill Conner.  but it is not evil -- it is what is expected.  Teagan suggests it, Alistair suggests it -- this is not just a stupid act done by a malicious soul.

Modifié par ejoslin, 05 décembre 2010 - 03:37 .