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[Aermas]

I find it odd to generate a stagnate world

[Snoteye]

Sir JK wrote...

From our characters perspective Arishok and Kal-Hirol respectively are both derived from foreign languages (qunari and dwarven).

Similarily, some names are really old and thus cannot be understood by those living there anymore. Like Denerim or Ostagar.

But all "recent" names gets translated if the meaning is understood by the inhabitants.

The Danish name for Copenhagen is København. It's far enough away from its Old Danish root, Køpmannæhafn (Danish: købmændenes havn, English: port of merchants/businessmen), that you can't easily derive its meaning but close enough that it's obvious once you know. In the meantime, "København" literally means "buy-a-port," almost the opposite of root's meaning. The city of Aarhus' name has a similar history. Obscure names are easily justified in modern language.

[Sir JK]

Yes, but as you notice... not all old english is untillegible. Some names evolve as the language does. England being a prime example. Land of the Angles (as in Anglo-Saxons, not to be confused with angels).

Kirkwall is only half understandable anyways. Wall is fairly clear... but what does Kirk mean in the context? I doubt it's the Old english/scottish meaning (church). So whatever the name is in planascene, or marchic or fereldan (or whatever the language they speak in Kirkwall is called) wall obviously has been imported from it's original language in a recogniceable form.

As for district names. Even in old cities they change to accomodate the current needs. They need to tell you where you can find the place, since after all... only a minority can read (and thus be able to use maps).

Snoteye: Yes, allthough I as a swede always think port of merchants when I read copenhagen (well the danish or swedish version anyways). But regardless, you have the language in your back. You can translate the older version to the newer and you easily learn how the name has change. If we did use the same translation there as in games then Copenhagen would indeed be translated to Merchantport (possibly Merchatporte). To capture that lingual history inherent to the name.
As a point of curiosity, what does Aarhus mean?

Modifié par Sir JK, 04 décembre 2010 - 10:37 .

[Anarya]

Aermas wrote...

Piecake makes a good point, let them be called Hightown & Lowtown, but why not in a different language so that it's a bit richer & show the history of Kirkwall & how so many different people influenced it's towns & districts

So let me just understand what your argument really is. You don't actually care where the name comes from or why it's named, you just want something that sounds exotic to your ear, as a native English speaker? Is that your objection?

[Leonia]

Aermas wrote...

I find it odd to generate a stagnate world

I cannot make sense of this. Thedas is anything but a stagnate world. I won't even touch the linquistic debate that is starting up here since I reckon it will go the same route as the real-armour versus armour in a video game debate.

[nightcobra]

Sir JK wrote...

Yes, but as you notice... not all old english is untillegible. Some names evolve as the language does. England being a prime example. Land of the Angles (as in Anglo-Saxons, not to be confused with angels).

Kirkwall is only half understandable anyways. Wall is fairly clear... but what does Kirk mean in the context? I doubt it's the Old english/scottish meaning (church). So whatever the name is in planascene, or marchic or fereldan (or whatever the language they speak in Kirkwall is called) wall obviously has been imported from it's original language in a recogniceable form.

As for district names. Even in old cities they change to accomodate the current needs. They need to tell you where you can find the place, since after all... only a minority can read (and thus be able to use maps).

kirkwall being inhabited by a melting pot of cultures (orlesians, fereldans, antivan, nevarran, rivaini, etc) might have had a hand on this issue

[nightcobra]

Anarya wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Piecake makes a good point, let them be called Hightown & Lowtown, but why not in a different language so that it's a bit richer & show the history of Kirkwall & how so many different people influenced it's towns & districts

So let me just understand what your argument really is. You don't actually care where the name comes from or why it's named, you just want something that sounds exotic to your ear, as a native English speaker? Is that your objection?

that's how i'm reading it, unless i'm reading it wrong.

[Sir JK]

nightcobra8928 wrote...
kirkwall being inhabited by a melting pot of cultures (orlesians, fereldans, antivan, nevarran, rivaini, etc) might have had a hand on this issue

It's probably Tevinter in origin (tevintrian? Tevinteric?)

[nightcobra]

i don't have a problem with it.



i'm portuguese and we have places named like "bairro alto" or "porto" which literally mean high neighborhood and port/harbor.

[nightcobra]

Sir JK wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...
kirkwall being inhabited by a melting pot of cultures (orlesians, fereldans, antivan, nevarran, rivaini, etc) might have had a hand on this issue

It's probably Tevinter in origin (tevintrian? Tevinteric?)

a tevinter slavery compound to be exact.

later on, it became a city bristling with people from all over thedas. (this doesn't mean it's become any better though:P)

[Sir JK]

I meant the Kirk part of the name

[Leonia]

It's possible the Kirk part of the name doesn't have any meaning at all. Or maybe it refers to the Chantry instead of churches.

[nightcobra]

Sir JK wrote...

I meant the Kirk part of the name

probably, but it could be the kirkwall name could have been introduced when the templars came to rule
like you said kirk could mean church so i thought it could kirkwall could also mean something like "walls of the chantry"

it's first name might be kirkwall but it could have been something else entirely as well.

[GodWood]

Anarya wrote...
So let me just understand what your argument really is. You don't actually care where the name comes from or why it's named, you just want something that sounds exotic to your ear, as a native English speaker? Is that your objection?

I'm not sure thats what he's saying but its what I'd want.
Look at Weisshapt Fortress, Weisshapt is German for Whitehead (head as in headquarters).
Now isn't that better than simply calling it 'White Head quarters'?

[Sir JK]

Hmm... perhaps. Walls of the chantry does not sounds improbable. Could be walls of Kirk as well... Kirk being a person or tribe originally.

GodWood wrote...
I'm not sure thats what he's saying but its what I'd want.
Look at Weisshapt Fortress, Weisshapt is German for Whitehead (head as in headquarters).
Now isn't that better than simply calling it 'White Head quarters'?

Was Redcliffe, Lothering, The Alienage, The Market district, Dragons Peak, Southern Hills, Highever, Amaranthine and Frostback Mountains such bad names?

Modifié par Sir JK, 04 décembre 2010 - 10:59 .

[nightcobra]

GodWood wrote...

Anarya wrote...
So let me just understand what your argument really is. You don't actually care where the name comes from or why it's named, you just want something that sounds exotic to your ear, as a native English speaker? Is that your objection?

I'm not sure thats what he's saying but its what I'd want.
Look at Weisshapt Fortress, Weisshapt is German for Whitehead (head as in headquarters).
Now isn't that better than simply calling it 'White Head quarters'?

depends, a german person might roll his eyes if he hears it

[Snoteye]

Sir JK wrote...

As a point of curiosity, what does Aarhus mean?

Aarhus is much more obscure. Ārōs, pronounced like "arse," is the Old Danish name of cities Aarhus, Trondheim (Nidaros), Västerås (Vestre [West] Aros), and Uppsala (Østre [East] Aros). Its roots are the words ār, genetive case of å (the word, roughly meaning "stream," not the letter), and os, a no longer used word that means mouth (as in estuary). The modern version would thus be Åens Munding (literally [the] Stream's Mouth/Estuary). The name was given because the city was founded by the estuary of what since became Aarhus Åen ([the] Aarhus Stream). The city is believed to be at least 1300 years old.

Anarya wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Piecake makes a good point, let them be called Hightown & Lowtown, but why not in a different language so that it's a bit richer & show the history of Kirkwall & how so many different people influenced it's towns & districts

So let me just understand what your argument really is. You don't actually care where the name comes from or why it's named, you just want something that sounds exotic to your ear, as a native English speaker? Is that your objection?

The reason I don't care for High- and Lowtown is that they sound modern and a city that has firmly established poor and rich quarters cannot be new (and we know that Kirkwall has a long history). I think Kirkwall is an excellent name because it suggests this city is old. So for my part, yeah, I prefer exotic names, but for the sake of consistency rather than for the sake of being exotic.

Modifié par Snoteye, 04 décembre 2010 - 11:16 .

[GodWood]

Sir JK wrote...
Was Redcliffe, Lothering, The Alienage, The Market district, Dragons Peak, Southern Hills, Highever, Amaranthine and Frostback Mountains such bad names?

I had no problem with any of those names.
Sure 'market district' is a bit boring but hey its a small place it doesn't need a particularly exciting name.

nightcobra8928 wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Look at Weisshapt Fortress, Weisshapt is German for Whitehead (head as in headquarters).
Now isn't that better than simply calling it 'White Head quarters'?

depends, a german person might roll his eyes if he hears it

I think its safe to assume the target audience for this game is the english speaking world and thus the game's naming conventions should focus on what sounds good to english speaking ears.

[Sir JK]

GodWood wrote...
I had no problem with any of those names.
Sure 'market district' is a bit boring but hey its a small place it doesn't need a particularly exciting name.

Like say... the low- and hightown?

I think its safe to assume the target audience for this game is the english speaking world and thus the game's naming conventions should focus on what sounds good to english speaking ears.

Of course, sometimes just making up exotic european-ish names end up causing trouble.

According to the map a city in Antiva is called Treviso.
And so is this one

But regardless. But just one quick look around England will show you that even in english speaking countries are most names descriptive. I think it's a good name. Maybe it's because I've grown up somewhere where all names are descriptive and my language is similar enough to a major continental language (german) to make me understand that so are theirs (allthough I can't understand what those names means other than in rare cases).

I prefer descriptive names really. It makes me feel more connected to understand from the name only what kind of history or position the place have. Gives a better connection to the place.

[GodWood]

Sir JK wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I had no problem with any of those names.
Sure 'market district' is a bit boring but hey its a small place it doesn't need a particularly exciting name.

Like say... the low- and hightown?

I'm under the impression that these are larger, more distinct areas thus require fancier names.

[AbounI]

I remember the words of Matt Goldman in the second podcast where he explains a part of his inspiration is coming from ethiopian architectural style.
Take a look in the so wellknown Lalibela's rock Churches, directly build in the stone where men (and and accessorily by angels of God) had dug the earth.



Definitly, Kirkwall reminds me the Lalibela stye.A town build in the rock
As Sir JK explained, Kirk could be an old English word for Churches.
So here I see a link between the name of the city and what has inspirate his design


edit: here are Matt Goldman's words:
"MG: It's no longer like that, but we were able to get some pretty stark
imagery out of that source material. And I've always been fascinated by
these monolithic churches in Ethiopia...very interesting. They're
basically carved into the ground out of these huge, erratic stones that
were left there. It's really interesting-looking. We're exploring those
different themes, trying to come up with some fantasy analogues for
industrialism and this slave mentality, the fortress mentality of this,
the division between the rich and the poor, the powerful and the weak,
and it's pretty unusual."

Modifié par AbounI, 04 décembre 2010 - 11:56 .

[Realmjumper]

Finally some mroe info. Keep it up Bioware!

[FedericoV]

I really like the concept art. Since all the locations showed to us are in Kirkwall, I really hope that it will be a very big city to play and get lost in, something on the size of Baldur's Gate or Athkatla, but with the same attention to details, atmosphere and sense of "grandeur" of Ostagar (imho, the most beautiful and immersive area of the original game).

Modifié par FedericoV, 04 décembre 2010 - 12:31 .

[Maria Caliban]

leonia42 wrote...

Aermas wrote...

I find it odd to generate a stagnate world

I cannot make sense of this. Thedas is anything but a stagnate world. I won't even touch the linquistic debate that is starting up here since I reckon it will go the same route as the real-armour versus armour in a video game debate.

All we're saying is that it doesn't make sense for Avaline in her plate armor and shield to get +60 to armor while Varric in his open coat gets +300. I don't buy Mary's argument about "the power of chest hair."

I happen to have an armor of chest hair sitting in the other room and have seen battles using chest hair, and while they're very light, they do not "have the tensile strength of a wookie made from diamonds!"

[SDNcN]

Maria Caliban wrote...


I happen to have an armor of chest hair sitting in the other room and have seen battles using chest hair, and while they're very light, they do not "have the tensile strength of a wookie made from diamonds!"

Was the chest hair enchanted?
Varric's chest hair is enchanted.

Modifié par SDNcN, 04 décembre 2010 - 12:42 .