117 réponses à ce sujet

[Sidac]

282xvl wrote...
As for the assertion that no races are preparing for war, I would argue that the Turians throwing out the Naval Treaty and ramping up DN production counts as both prepping for war and building DNs... Perhaps not for use specifically against reapers, but initially intended purpose aside, they WILL have said DNs. I doubt the Alliance will not at the very least attempt parity in new production hulls.

Don't forget the Batarians with their orbital mirror system that could be used as a super weapon! If you saved the council, batarians shut down the project. if you let the council die, they dont.  The quote and the Batarian mirror system is the reason i went paragon in the end of ME1. I hope that no mirror system and few dreadnaughts = REAPERS WIN

Modifié par Sidac, 11 décembre 2010 - 03:05 .

[282xvl]

kylecouch wrote...
Please keep in mind Turians only throw out the doctrine if you let the Council die. Not only that but the Asari say "F*ck it" and stop making ships altogeather. And of course lets not forget you lose the DA...the very symbol of morale for all of the Council races basicly. Like you said yourself, lore has established that the DA can kick some serious ass when not forced into "knife-fight" ranges. So I think letting that die for the sake a few easily replacable human crusiers is a bad tacticle move IMO.

Of course if you allowed the DA to be destroyed simply because the Council was on it. Then you are letting petty and biased feelings interfear with strategic and logistical judgement. IMO anyway.

At some risk of facilitating a Renegade vs Paragon strategic sensibility thread hijack...

I would answer that for my "canon" Shepard I made the DA decision from a perspective of NOT KNOWING the outcome of battle is guarenteed to be positive. In my first playthrough ever I wasn't even phased by the decision to sacrifice anything to bring maximum possible firepower to bear on sovvy. Saving the council/DA seemed sentimental and idealistic when the ship was disabled/withdrawing and no longer of tactical value, and when any democratic politicians could and would always be replaced. In my first playthough I did not know that I would not be TACTICALLY penalized for not taking what was obviously inferred to be the Tactical over Heroic choice. So I chose to be tactical.

In subsequent playthroughs, knowing that it works out anyway, I could not oft bring myself to throw away the Ascension (I do love my capital ships.) Only with hardcore renegade runs who actively connived to rebalance fleet strengths with maximum alien losses played it out this way.

However, for my final "canon" playthough for export to ME 2 I felt utterly compelled to return to my original decision in this regard - the one made without foreknowledge of a certain victorious outcome. It felt the most natural, most real. If ME 2 were reality played out, Shepard to that day would not know if the DA decision actually was or was not a neccissary sacrifice since no alternate universe would exist to show perfectly that it would was not. I did not feel I was being crass, self-serving, intentionally vindictive or even human-supremacist with my canon shep here - only making what appeared to be the best tactical decision.

The ME1 final battle was a win-or-die proposition for the fate of the galaxy. Saving one ship and its crew plus the replaceable executive branch of a democratic government at POSSIBLE expense of losing (everyone's!) life eventually came to seem ridiculous to me.

[HunterX6]

Fleets wont be enough if we actually go against the whole reaper invasion, now if they only send a few dozen reapers to open a portal or something to make the others reach faster the galaxy, then they might have a chance.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

You know in all honesty, unless this super dread is named Normandy SR3, it's probably already been blown up

Sorry.

[282xvl]

NO! No SR3 that would be getting ridiculous. How many ships are you going to have us believe Shepard can have blown out from under her and live (or be Jesus'd anyway) Upgrade the existing SR2 YES. But KEEP IT A FRIGATE.



What does "SR" mean anyway? Stealth Recon? Never seen anything to indicate what it is. Is it a frigate class designation like FF? Does anyone know? I do believe SSV is Systems (Alliance) Space Vessel (correct me if wrong) but seriously - SR? What does it mean?



Alliance flagship is just that, flagship of the Alliance. Shepard, being a Jedi errr Spectre requires something small and fast. Besides Sci-Fi combat commanders with authority and importance above their actual rank always have small but swift "flagships" (think USS Defiant and White Star or Millennium Falcon.

[TuringPoint]

Stealth Reconnaissance is what it means, I believe. SSV Normandy SR1.

It would be a little weird for them to change to another ship again.  Still, I think it would be neat if Shepard had some access to a large vessel like a dreadnaught.  Perhaps Hackett pulls some weight to get Shepard a small fleet with a dreadnaught to back him up, but which doesn't follow him everywhere necessarily.  Give us an iconic Dreadnaught/Superdreadnaught or cruiser as well as the Normandy SR2, with upgrades.

Modifié par Alocormin, 12 décembre 2010 - 11:01 .

[282xvl]

^ This I support.



If there is any sort of ship battle command segment, Shepard should ride into battle aboard the Normandy by have full authority to issue orders to the Fleet. (In general terms, via DIALOGUE or a TACTICAL MAP. - I will NOT accept a "flight sim" in my ME 3.)

[prizm123]

282xvl wrote...

Who agrees that the since the Alliance now heads up the citadel's defense force it should build a flagship worthy of this duty? For those who blew up the D.A. it would be a replacement command ship and council-evac/continuity of gov't platform. For those who saved the D.A. it would be Humanity satisfying its ever-present desire to keep up with (and surpass) the galactic Jones' (and penis envy.)

I support the inclusion of an Alliance Superdreadnaught to lead the fleet against the Reapers. At some point it should be boarded and Shepard should dock the Normandy with it to repel said boarding action for an added bit of cool. But I'd be satisfied with just seeing humanity produce galactic-class flagship for the final fleet battle.

(There WILL be a final fleet battle. It has been said and said and said enough times that The People will NOT stand for a "virus" or other deus ex machina ending! Heads will roll, tesitcles WILL meet electrodes. )

only if Hackett is commanding it

[Yakko77]

Alocormin wrote...

Stealth Reconnaissance is what it means, I believe. SSV Normandy SR1.

It would be a little weird for them to change to another ship again.  Still, I think it would be neat if Shepard had some access to a large vessel like a dreadnaught.  Perhaps Hackett pulls some weight to get Shepard a small fleet with a dreadnaught to back him up, but which doesn't follow him everywhere necessarily.  Give us an iconic Dreadnaught/Superdreadnaught or cruiser as well as the Normandy SR2, with upgrades.

Maybe for Spacer Shepards we can get that ship captained by Sheps Mom.

[Orion1836]

Yakko77 wrote...

Maybe for Spacer Shepards we can get that ship captained by Sheps Mom.

Ha! Awesome. "You want to mess with my kid? You mess with ME first!" *Thanix shot*

Just throw in a few of these and the Alliance should be fine:

[Yakko77]

Orion1836 wrote...

Yakko77 wrote...

Maybe for Spacer Shepards we can get that ship captained by Sheps Mom.

Ha! Awesome. "You want to mess with my kid? You mess with ME first!" *Thanix shot*

Just throw in a few of these and the Alliance should be fine:

Provided she's still not too mad at us for not telling her that you're alive after 2 years.  If you thought Ash/Kai handled it bad, imagine how your mother would react and add to the fact she's the skipper of a dreadnought and can tell it where to shoot!!

LOL!

[Nashiktal]

At the risk of continuing the Paragon vs Renegade decision, I mainly saved the DA because I didn't want that geth fleet in the ass of my own forces while attacking Sovereign. When I made the decision I also did not have any foreknowledge of what the end of the battle would be.

[282xvl]

Nashiktal wrote...

At the risk of continuing the Paragon vs Renegade decision, I mainly saved the DA because I didn't want that geth fleet in the ass of my own forces while attacking Sovereign. When I made the decision I also did not have any foreknowledge of what the end of the battle would be.

I'm curious what suggested that the DA was in any position to provide any useful resistance by the time you choose to save or ignore it. My take on the situation was that it was barriers down, weapons offline, holes punched in the hull all over and essentially routing from the engagement. Even if she stil had some fight in her I have my doubts that her commander would stay in the fight - with the council on board it would be like asking Air Force One and its escort fighters to engage incomming Soviet bombers...

TBH the Geth fleet didn't impress me much. Their ships appeared to be of cruiser weight and their weapons were positively shown not to penetrate Turian cruiser barriers by any means easily (bounces are shown.) My reading of the codex led me to conclude that the Arcturus Fleet would bring definitive ass-kicking to the table - as the codex explains Alliance doctrine, this fleet is supposed to respond with overwhelmingly crushing force to invasions of Human colonies. So I assumed DNs, CVs, dozens of CAs and hundreds of frigates - what I got was... within the animation budget, to put it kindly. But I digress - I didn't really think I would need the DA to defeat the Geth fleet (or that things would go much worse without it) but I did feel if I committed (or lost) significant portions of the Alliance fleet that it could in all possibility lose against sovvy.

[Nashiktal]

I think you are misunderstanding my intentions for saving the DA. I just wanted that geth fleet gone, and I never thought the DA would be back in the fight,.



The thing is, no matter how wimpy those ships are, you see them blasting apart turian ships early in the battle, and having those same rockets fire right up your ass while you have a giant space squid in your face seems like tactical hell.

[282xvl]

O I C so you committed the Alliance fleet with the intention of engaging and destroying the Geth fleet before taking on Sovvy, not specifically to save the DA? That makes a lot more sense I can see how it could be played that way, smash up the little guys before taking on Sovvy without interference.



Reason I would not do this is purely codex-based. Codex describes short-range combat as very swift, confused and short-lived due to ship overhead issues. I feared committing the fleet to engage the Geth would leave many ships disoriented at odd velocities and vectors, overheated and or out of position to attack Sovvy.



I wanted my ships "fresh" as it were. However I can see how your argument of Geth First to keep them off your back has merit.

[Nashiktal]

Well to be honest I didn't think the fleet would go into knife fight range like it did. I had assumed they would have blasted the geth in the rear from a distance, which turned out to be mistaken.



In any case now that we have full knowledge of the repercussions of our choice. I was actually disappointed how little our tactical decisions mattered. No matter what happens, you always have plenty of ships at the end to kill sovvy, and secure a victory. No matter what you do, nothing changes except for how the other races view you.

[282xvl]

Nashiktal wrote...
In any case now that we have full knowledge of the repercussions of our choice. I was actually disappointed how little our tactical decisions mattered. No matter what happens, you always have plenty of ships at the end to kill sovvy, and secure a victory. No matter what you do, nothing changes except for how the other races view you.

CONCUR, Good Sir - absolutely, utterly and with utmost vehemence.

"Morality" choices for the sake of morality don't have any moral weight one way or the other. If nothing is at stake then Shep might as well just be choosing Blue Armor or Red Armor... at the end of the day its just a matter of irrelevant style.

I sincerely hope that the big endgame choice in ME2 is actually given some consequential weight in ME3 beyond a few different dialogue soundbytes. And certainly if this big final decision model is followed in ME3's design I essentially DEMAND to see a massive difference in outcomes since BW is now free from the need to make neutral and thus low-variable storylines for export to the sequel.

Unless they're not... Quadriliogy anyone?

[Nashiktal]

I sincerely hope the choice at the end of ME2 has consequences either way. Both choices should offer advantages and disadvantages that affect you position in ME3.



For example, keeping the base gives you a leg up on Reaper tech, but perhaps TIM becomes indoctrinated?



Destroy the base and become a rallying beacon for all the races of the galaxy, but miss out on some tech that could save millions of lives. Just something to make things different, and varied consequences.