299 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

I don't even mind having the combat actions occur faster- I think that could make it play better and more tactically, potentially. We won't really know until we can at least see someone play the game using pause and play.



I just think the actual animations themselves in DA2 from what we've seen so far look utterly stupid.Its one thing to speed things up, but the end result IMO, makes DA2 look like a fairly generic, boring action hack and slash. There isn't any sense of weight to the animations and all the goofy effects, like some weird white bubble on Aveline's shield for shield defense or even shield bash now having some big white poofy explosion thing added to it with the enemy now flying up and back a good 10 feet into the air. Nevermind the idle animations now involve neurotic posing and twirling for no reason.



Maybe they've changed those since some of those bootlegs, but the combat animations make DA2 look more like a shallow, generic, run of the mill action game.

[upsettingshorts]

And the only point at which I'd object is when "make it look like" becomes "turns it into."

[Ziggeh]

Monica83 wrote...
So im free to repeat and say evrything i want about the product..

Sure, by all means. Just don't expect to not be corrected if your platitude juggling negativity is based on guess work.

[Monica83]

I tryed the demo at lucca comix & games i know what im talking about and.... did you expect the final product will be much different?

[nightcobra]

Monica83 wrote...

I tryed the demo at lucca comix & games i know what im talking about and.... did you expect the final product will be much different?

a bit different at least since that demo was already 6 months old when you played it.
more animations could have been entered/tweaked into the sequences.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 05 décembre 2010 - 10:02 .

[ErichHartmann]

Ah well I give up with this banter. At the risk of sounding like an elitist I enjoy a wide variety of RPGs and don't focus on a narrow type of gameplay (looking at you Baldur's Gate). Above all story is the most important aspect of BioWare games, not the animation speed. Definitely needs tweaking but not a game breaking issue for me. 

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 05 décembre 2010 - 10:08 .

[Monica83]

oh well they streamlized dialogues also.... like mass effect2 so.... We are not only talking about gameplay and game art... They streamlized evrything...End yes i ejoyed way more bg2 than DAO

Anyways....



I doubt in 6 months can be changed many things

[nightcobra]

Monica83 wrote...

oh well they streamlized dialogues also.... like mass effect2 so.... We are not only talking about gameplay and game art... They streamlized evrything...End yes i ejoyed way more bg2 than DAO
Anyways....

I doubt in 6 months can be changed many things

well then we'll just have to wait and see, as well as being careful as not to cry out assumptions before we see the game in it's finished complete form.

[Apollo Starflare]

Monica83 wrote...

I tryed the demo at lucca comix & games i know what im talking about and.... did you expect the final product will be much different?

I played the demo at Eurogamer London, I guess that means I know what I'm talking about too? Because we disagree almost across the board does that mean the universe will implode?

Seriously, you have an opinion based off what seems mostly a mixture of assumption, speculation and bias and you seem to think it makes it an unequivical fact that the game will suck or what have you. There are enough genuine concerns and reasonable criticisms to make without the exaggerated OTT ones getting repeated everywhere.

ErichHartmann wrote...

Ah well I give up with this banter.
At the risk of sounding like an elitist I enjoy a wide variety of RPGs
and don't focus on a narrow type of gameplay (looking at you Baldur's
Gate). Above all story is the most important aspect of BioWare games,
not the animation speed. Definitely needs tweaking but not a game
breaking issue for me. 

I'm with Erich.

[Morroian]

Monica83 wrote...

I tryed the demo at lucca comix & games i know what im talking about and.... did you expect the final product will be much different?

Well given that months ago now they said they had slowed the animations down, yes.

[Ziggeh]

Monica83 wrote...
We are not only talking about gameplay and game art... They streamlized evrything..

Why the hyperbole?

You've been privy to a part of the game, and you disliked that part. That's all fine. That's a statement I can support.

It's not the conclusive, damning evidence you seem to think it is, your opinion directly conflicting with dev statements and other people who've played it and all. And you're extending that dislike, and applying negative assumptions to other areas of the game.

[Aermas]

Swinging a two hander is not necessarily slow, you grasp the secondary grip that is placed above hilt for more torque & a faster attack, as Dragon Age has yet to introduce two handers that are accurately portrayed....



I have to go back to the argument to remodel & reanimate the two hander parts

[TJPags]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Im not referring at you.. But at the people that call you troll if you say something you think bad.... Anyways im quite disappointed DA2 its a streamlized title shorter than the original with complete hack & Slash gameplay..

Gah! See, that's your problem right there.

It's clearly not "complete hack & Slash gameplay" yet you continue to repeat it. You not liking the look of what you've seen so far is not the same thing. One is an opinion we can respect, the other is a baseless assumption.

If you keep being entirely unreasonable, don't be suprised if people point that out. Calling them fanboys doesn't make you any more reasonable.

Is it the fact that some of us don't like what we saw of the combat, or that we call it hack and slash that drives you crazy?  Because you really seem like you're getting frustrated with something, and from this post I quoted, I'm thinking - hoping - it's the label, not the opinion.

[Ziggeh]

Aermas wrote...

Swinging a two hander is not necessarily slow, you grasp the secondary grip that is placed above hilt for more torque & a faster attack, as Dragon Age has yet to introduce two handers that are accurately portrayed....

I have to go back to the argument to remodel & reanimate the two hander parts

They've yet to introduce weapons that are accurately portrayed. Or movement. Or dialogue. Or cities, relationships, animals, food, the passage of time. I could go on.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 05 décembre 2010 - 11:59 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

If it is anything like Final Fight, then OH YEAH IMA BREAK UP SOME OF THEM CARRIAGES IN DAT MINIGAME

[slimgrin]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

If it is anything like Final Fight, then OH YEAH IMA BREAK UP SOME OF THEM CARRIAGES IN DAT MINIGAME

Loved bustin up garbage cans and finding cash.

[Ziggeh]

TJPags wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Im not referring at you.. But at the people that call you troll if you say something you think bad.... Anyways im quite disappointed DA2 its a streamlized title shorter than the original with complete hack & Slash gameplay..

Gah! See, that's your problem right there.

It's clearly not "complete hack & Slash gameplay" yet you continue to repeat it. You not liking the look of what you've seen so far is not the same thing. One is an opinion we can respect, the other is a baseless assumption.

If you keep being entirely unreasonable, don't be suprised if people point that out. Calling them fanboys doesn't make you any more reasonable.

Is it the fact that some of us don't like what we saw of the combat, or that we call it hack and slash that drives you crazy?  Because you really seem like you're getting frustrated with something, and from this post I quoted, I'm thinking - hoping - it's the label, not the opinion.

In essence I'm a pedant.

I share in the opinion that what we've seen looked a bit too "hack and slashy" (for want of a better term) for my tastes. But we've been told that's not how it will work mechanically and so I've reserved judgement. "It's hack and slash", however, is a definitive statement that ignores both it's function (as opinion) and the evidence we've been provided. I appreciate that generally what people mean is "It is my opinion that" or "from what we have seen so far it appears", and while I don't really expect people to suffix every statement, it should be assumed that should they not it will likely become a point of contention.

But what actually aggravates me there? Platitudes. Drive me up the wall. Clichéd rhetoric that has just become mindless bashing. "Streamlined" used as a synonym for "broken" or "ruined" has a special place in my personal hell.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 06 décembre 2010 - 12:22 .

[In Exile]

TJPags wrote...
Is it the fact that some of us don't like what we saw of the combat, or that we call it hack and slash that drives you crazy?  Because you really seem like you're getting frustrated with something, and from this post I quoted, I'm thinking - hoping - it's the label, not the opinion.

To us, calling DA2 hack & slash is like calling DA:O a dating sim. It's just nonsensical.

[Elishiva]

I myself have already put the game on recerve @Game stop and I'm looking forward to picking it up cracking it open and playing it as many times as I can thats all your friendElishiva

[Ziggeh]

In Exile wrote...

To us, calling DA2 hack & slash is like calling DA:O a dating sim. It's just nonsensical.

Right, I see it as basically a reduction to the absurd, expanding those elements to an absurd position.

[TJPags]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

TJPags wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Im not referring at you.. But at the people that call you troll if you say something you think bad.... Anyways im quite disappointed DA2 its a streamlized title shorter than the original with complete hack & Slash gameplay..

Gah! See, that's your problem right there.

It's clearly not "complete hack & Slash gameplay" yet you continue to repeat it. You not liking the look of what you've seen so far is not the same thing. One is an opinion we can respect, the other is a baseless assumption.

If you keep being entirely unreasonable, don't be suprised if people point that out. Calling them fanboys doesn't make you any more reasonable.

Is it the fact that some of us don't like what we saw of the combat, or that we call it hack and slash that drives you crazy?  Because you really seem like you're getting frustrated with something, and from this post I quoted, I'm thinking - hoping - it's the label, not the opinion.

In essence I'm a pedant.

I share in the opinion that what we've seen looked a bit too "hack and slashy" for my tastes. But we've been told that's not how it will work mechanically and so I've reserved judgement. "It's hack and slash", however, is a definitive statement that ignores both it's function (as opinion) and the evidence we've been provided. I appreciate that generally what people mean is "It is my opinion that" or "from what we have seen so far it appears", and while I don't really expect people to suffix every statement, it should be assumed that should they not it will likely become a point of contention.

But what actually aggravates me there? Platitudes. Drive me up the wall. Clichéd rhetoric that has just become mindless bashing. "Streamlined" used as a synonym for "broken" or "ruined" has a special place in my personal hell.

Okay, that's kind of what it seemed like your major problem was.  I can't speak for anyone but me, but when I say it looks hack and slash, I mean that, to me, what I've seen looks hack and slash.  It seems that, to a degree, you agree with that assessment, but simply want to wait for the updated version before making that final determination.  Which, since Mike Laidlaw's announcement that we'll be seeing actual gameplay footage soon, I'm willing to do as well

In Exile wrote...

TJPags wrote...
Is it the fact that some of us don't like what we saw of the combat, or that we call it hack and slash that drives you crazy?  Because you really seem like you're getting frustrated with something, and from this post I quoted, I'm thinking - hoping - it's the label, not the opinion.

To us, calling DA2 hack & slash is like calling DA:O a dating sim. It's just nonsensical.

This, I can't agree with.  I see where you're going, and why you're using that analogy, but a lot of people who saw the only gameplay footage out so far - the exagerated early game fighting - seem to have reached the same conclusion.  Are some just being negative?  Sure, that's likely.  But to say that it didn't look a bit hack and slash is, I think, unrealistic.

Again, I'm not talking about anyone who may have actually played the demo and seen something that I, who didn't play any demo, didn't see.  I can only base my opinion on what I saw, and the only thing I've seen so far is what's been described as the exagerated portion.

[Morroian]

TJPags wrote...

This, I can't agree with.  I see where you're going, and why you're using that analogy, but a lot of people who saw the only gameplay footage out so far - the exagerated early game fighting - seem to have reached the same conclusion.  Are some just being negative?  Sure, that's likely.  But to say that it didn't look a bit hack and slash is, I think, unrealistic.

Its nonsensical because looking hack and slashy and actually being a hack and slash are different things. While DA2 has auto attack, pause and give orders and some sort of tactical view (limited as it sounds like it will be) it is nonsensical to call the gameplay hack and slash.

[In Exile]

TJPags wrote...
This, I can't agree with.  I see where you're going, and why you're using that analogy, but a lot of people who saw the only gameplay footage out so far - the exagerated early game fighting - seem to have reached the same conclusion.  Are some just being negative?  Sure, that's likely.  But to say that it didn't look a bit hack and slash is, I think, unrealistic.

What you saw was the console version, of which Bioware was really upfront about having introduced click to attack instead of just select target to attack. They've confirmed no dodge mechanisms, that auto-attack on consoles can be enabled, and that all hits are based 100% on statistics, with the click-to-attack feature a console only feature to keep console players engaged.

So to say that DA2 is hack & slash is like me watching the DA:O gameplay trailier where the PC gives Morrigain the grimoire and then they have sex, and conclude based on that than DA:O was a dating sim.

The content is in the game, the developers showed it off; why shouldn't I assume that some small swath of the game taken out of context doesn't fully describe the game?

I'm not objecting to you being negative about the game, or disliking the features. I'm objecting to the label and the reasoning you have reached to apply it.

Again, I'm not talking about anyone who may have actually played the demo and seen something that I, who didn't play any demo, didn't see.  I can only base my opinion on what I saw, and the only thing I've seen so far is what's been described as the exagerated portion.

On the console version. Played a particular way. Just like all I saw in DA:O was the PC give Morrigain a necklass and a book, then saw her thank the PC and finally saw the two shag in her tent. Seems like a dating sim to me.

[upsettingshorts]

Here's what the issue is:

Group A says the game looks like a hack and slash, therefore it must be a dumbed down hack and slash game.
Group B says the game looks like a hack and slash.
Group C thinks the idea of the game becoming a hack and slash is indefensible and absurd.

Sometimes, Group C is critical of Group B because they assume they are making the same argument as Group A. Other times, Group C is critical of Group A, and Group B thinks they ought to get involved because of a misunderstanding.

That's my read on the situation. Personally, I'm in C (obviously), have little problem with B, and think A's arguments are specious.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 décembre 2010 - 12:34 .

[TJPags]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Here's what the issue is:

Group A says the game looks like a hack and slash, therefore it must be a dumbed down hack and slash game.
Group B says the game looks like a hack and slash.
Group C thinks the idea of the game becoming a hack and slash is indefensible and absurd.

Sometimes, Group C is critical of Group B because they assume they are making the same argument as Group A. Other times, Group C is critical of Group A, and Group B thinks they ought to get involved because of a misunderstanding.

That's my read on the situation. Personally, I'm in C (obviously), have little problem with B, and think A's arguments are specious.

I think this is a nice summary.  I'm in Group B, personally.

@InExile - I saw what I saw.  You tell me it was the console version, set a certain way.  I have no reason to doubt you.
The devs have said that this was part of the "exagerated" section, from before Cassandra calls Varric out about telling the truth., and that it was an early version which was still being worked on.  I have no reason to doubt them.

However, all that said, what I saw looked hack and slash.  That's my opinion of what I saw.  To say that the opinion is wrong, or is invalid because of other factors, is frankly going too far.

I'm not saying the end result will be a hack and slash, as I have no idea what the end result will be.  I look forward to seeing the footage we were so recently promised.  What I am saying is that what I saw looked hack and slash.  And you would be justified in saying that the trailer you described looked like a dating sim.  You would be wrong if you said the end result - the shipped version of DAO - was a dating sim, but justified in saying - even now - that the trailer you saw looked like a dating sim.