67 réponses à ce sujet

[Vansen Elamber]

Well I finally made it to chapter 3 and I am in Beorunna's Well and I was completely broke, I had like 125 gold and thats it. So what I had to do was get some of the henchmen that I did not want to take with me, strip them of most of their gear and sell it so I had some cash to buy potions and other things I needed. So my question is, does anyone see this as cheating? And yes it did kind of feel like cheating.... However I could not find any banks to steal from or any rich people, well except the Henchies....

Modifié par Vansen Elamber, 04 décembre 2010 - 04:05 .

[HipMaestro]

Meh. Just a bit mercenary perhaps, RP-wise. TK allowed you to do it before playing the expansions is all.

Now, a caster using the Continual Flame exploit at times to increase the bankroll could be debated as legit or not (only available with XPs installed). I've done both at times depending on my level of patience. There are plenty of methods to assure you don't run into gold problems, one of the simplest being to delay looting of containers until your PC has reached the highest possible level for that area. In most cases, the loot will be better but it takes some of the aforementioned patience to be useful.

edit: Oh, and one other "trap" that a struggling PC usually falls for is that it is better to delay buying all those intermediate buff ammies, rings and cloaks and rather tolerate using what ever drops. You can invest a significant amount of gold in all those +1 items when their use is so temporary and benign. 

Modifié par HipMaestro, 04 décembre 2010 - 04:46 .

[jmlzemaggo]

Cheating.
Any other question? 
At least that's how I named it when I did it myself, I mean, come on, stealing properties from the very people ready to give their very life for saving yours, how would you called it, if not...
I thought of a few better words even.

Anyway, welcome to the club!
Hey, actually, 'makes me think didn't I forget to ask you for the 220GP fee for entering our thieves guild?
You just met the cashier... 

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 04 décembre 2010 - 05:16 .

[HipMaestro]

jmlzemaggo wrote...
At least that's how I named it when I did it myself, I mean, come on, stealing properties from the very people ready to give their very life for saving yours, how would you called it, if not...
I thought of a few better words even.

I look it as an involuntary charitable contribution to their omnipotent lord and master who has infinite knowledge of their future.  After all, who is the first one they turn to when life is beginning to ebb away?  The lord giveth and the lord taketh it awayeth :innocent:

[olivier leroux]

What do you care if anyone else sees it as cheating? After all, it' not a competition but a pastime. If you feel bad about it yourself and it gets you a bad conscience and sleepless nights, then yes, it's cheating, because you're cheating yourself out of the fun you're supposed to have with this game.


On the other hand everything should be allowed if it makes the game more enjoyable for you and doesn't harm anyone else (in RL).

I'm curious though - what did you spend all the money on? I'm halfway through Chapter 2 and so far my PC has always had a lot of gold but hardly ever found anything worth buying because the stores' equipment was always inferior to the stuff I picked up along the way... Will that change in Chapter 3?

Modifié par olivier leroux, 04 décembre 2010 - 06:29 .

[Muric]

like a true cheater. . .i generally feel if the game allows it to happen . . .it's all good.  ahem.. that is.. unless it makes the game by far too easy, thus killing enjoyment.

Modifié par Muric, 04 décembre 2010 - 06:35 .

[CheeseshireCat]

Muric wrote...

like a true cheater. . .i generally feel if the game allows it to happen . . .it's all good.  ahem.. that is.. unless it makes the game by far too easy, thus killing enjoyment.

I went through a few mods on ##DebugMode 1 because I wasn't interested in much but the storyline, and franky, it *added* to the enjoyment, so YMMV 

[jmlzemaggo]

@ Vansen Elamber

If you enjoyed apparently so much becoming a cheater, and I'm sorry for some of my friends here, but NWN is the RL, 'meaning where I only see myself so clearly, wait until you play an assassin...

This only shall tell you who you truly are.

By the way, about those 220GP?

[Shadooow]

Vansen Elamber wrote...

Well I finally made it to chapter 3 and I am in Beorunna's Well and I was completely broke, I had like 125 gold and thats it. So what I had to do was get some of the henchmen that I did not want to take with me, strip them of most of their gear and sell it so I had some cash to buy potions and other things I needed. So my question is, does anyone see this as cheating? And yes it did kind of feel like cheating.... However I could not find any banks to steal from or any rich people, well except the Henchies....

Nope, this is metagaming. Nothing wrong with that.

[Vansen Elamber]

I just wanted to add to this that I would not have had to sell the Henchies gear if the developers would not have made so many chests with traps on them that can kill me and then once it is open I get 1 gold piece for my efforts...lol What is the point of making pretty much all the chests in the game completly pointless to open? And really I have to admitt some of them had like say 25 gold in them but that can't even buy me one heal critical wounds potion, so again a design flaw if you ask me, which in turn forces me to pilfer henchies gear.

I guess the good part about that design is you can do it again next chapter because they re-gear the henchies for you each chapter....

Modifié par Vansen Elamber, 05 décembre 2010 - 04:38 .

[HipMaestro]

Vansen Elamber wrote...

I just wanted to add to this that I would not have had to sell the Henchies gear if the developers would not have made so many chests with traps on them that can kill me and then once it is open I get 1 gold piece for my efforts...lol What is the point of making pretty much all the chests in the game completly pointless to open? And really I have to admitt some of them had like say 25 gold in them but that can't even buy me one heal critical wounds potion, so again a design flaw if you ask me, which in turn forces me to pilfer henchies gear.

I guess the good part about that design is you can do it again next chapter because they re-gear the henchies for you each chapter....

To be honest, I can't remember when I didn't have a few hundred thousand in gold by the game end and wondering what I should have been buying all along.

As I mentioned earlier, leave ALL the containers "as is" until you are leveled much higher, ideally before leaving the chapter.  The only traps that should be damaging you are the ones on the ground since all the others can either be bashed with elemental ammo or by sending a cheap summon (wiz/sorc/ranger/druid). True, the elemental ammo isn't cheap but it should only take 3 or 4 shots to break any container or door.  By level 6 or so some quite decent loot should be dropping.

Why not just hire Tomi until you are able to deal with trapped containers yourself?

I think your problem is you just rush through the game.  Most of us assume that a typical player will adventure into every room searching for clues and loot.  At least BG trained one to do that.  A rusher will usually be short of gold, XP and all the depth that was painstakingly designed into the game.

Just curious... how many Smuggler's Coins did you gather in the Docks District?

[MrZork]

I think it's cheating, but it's possible that some cheating fits the
character in terms of role-play. If you are playing a lawful character,
then it's a bit of a RP stretch to have him taking the henchies' gear.
Of course, some might just see it as an exploit, since the campaign
doesn't bother enforcing a more realistic scheme where the henchmen
won't let you take their stuff without some sort of compensation. In
that sense, it's little different from parts of other campaigns where
you can stand there and buy and re-sell the same stack of poison arrows
from a merchant, making a profit each time.



I don't feel nearly as bad about the continual light trick, because the
merchants charge extra for items that have a light property. If I have
to pay more for a Ring Of Scholars than for a Ring Of Insight, then the
store should, too. (Of course, one may argue that it goes too far to
create a Ring Of The Haggler that bumps the appraise skill and allows
casting Continual Light unlimited/day...) I mostly avoid this when I'm
not short on cash, mostly because it is boring to do.

My
experience is similar to others in that I have
always accumulated more gold than I could usefully spend somewhere
between the middle of chapter two and the start of chapter three. I
thing that was true even the first time I played, when my poor wizard
had a pack loaded with full magical bags because there was so much stuff
she wouldn't sell in case it was useful later on. Then again, I always
do all the side quests, too. I suppose one
would miss a lot of loot by doing only the core quests for each chapter.

[jmlzemaggo]

I made a post a few hours ago and it didn't show! D... site!

Anyway, I'll make it short.

The only reason why one can get the gear from the henchies is because this quite elegant "behaviour" isn't considered, scripted, within the AI. What sort of exploit is that? Actually? I used to be really proud of it myself some time ago...
'meaning you're only taking profit of a technical failure. Just try to conduct yourself in the same way in a multiplayer game, and you'll see how your companions will react towards your manners.
I did it a lot. Not anymore. Not now that I finally chose to roleplay NWN.
But of course that's anyone's call.
And it's so tempting...

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 06 décembre 2010 - 08:07 .

[HipMaestro]

Just one final note about the aspects of cannibalizing your hench's goodies...

I've always looked at it this way, RP-wise...

If the hench in question is going to be accompanying your PC throughout the trials and tribulations yet to come, well, it only makes sense that you would equip them with the best possible rig to do battle, right?  So in that case, even if their original equipment is redeemed for gold, they are most likely going to prosper by the sweet gear their loving master furnishes to them in time.  "Temporary inconvenience, permanent improvement. " (and I know of no hench that is able to talk Rizolvir into doing anything!)

On the other hand, if a hench is going to spend its time warming a bench in a pub or temple, of what possible use could a stash of primo gear hold for them?  Ummm, sentimental value, perhaps? Naturally, if later on, your PC recants that hench's usefulness, that same hench will once again receive a huge payoff for their temporary contribution to "the cause". 

The difference between a hench and an actual died-in-the-wool party member, is that cohorts are always more than willing to offer at least a temporary cash advancement to their cooperatives.  So, in that case, "adopted" goods never becomes part of the survival equation.

Then again, that "pang" you feel may be a result of a much deeper emotional symptom than just RP-ing a video game.  At least that's what Freud would say.   What did the philospher theorize?  "It's only a crime if YOU feel it is."

[Shia Luck]

Vansen Elamber wrote...

 So my question is, does anyone see this as cheating? And yes it did kind of feel like cheating.... However I could not find any banks to steal from or any rich people, well except the Henchies....

Yes. You are cheating a fictitious virtual imaginary person with no central nervous system or brain and no capability to feel pain or loss. So perhaps that means "no, not ccheating", *grin*

But if they ARE people? Virtual yes but, isn't what matters the way we treat beings that can feel pain? If you see them as people, then... you are using your power to abuse them! (Are you evil? , then it's ok )

Oh, Hip already said all this in about 1/10th of the words *grin*

...

Anyway , as a serious answer?  In my word of the imagination? Yes...  henchies are typically stupid and need protecting from themselves with wonderful gear... but so do players sometimes *grin*

have fun

[avado]

two things



1) You CANNOT RP in a solo game! I know there are those that think that you can, but they dont know what its like to talk to a real person. If the dialogue is pre-done for you, it is NOT RP!



That leads directly to..



2) since you are the ONLY one playing, there is no such thing as CHEATING!



It comes down to you. If you believe it is cheating (and you wouldnt have asked if you didnt) then its cheating, period. If you can sleep at night for doing it, then great.



Now, if you really feel terrible, go out and get the companions some new and better gear. That way you can justify it to yourself. But remember, YOU CAN NOT RP IN A SOLO GAME!

[Shia Luck]

avado wrote...

1) You CANNOT RP in a solo game! I know there are those that think that you can, but they dont know what its like to talk to a real person. If the dialogue is pre-done for you, it is NOT RP!

I disagree. RP is about playing a character. Some modules will not provide the type of choices you'd like or need for that character, but some modules will. RP is also about buying into the world and situation, and most importantly... RP is about using your imagination.

Some people RP by imagining themselves, their real self in the world. Some RP by taking on a very different character than themseleves. Some play stereotypes, some play personalities, some others are like the author of a book and the character is not them at all. They are all forms of RP to those people who play them.

That leads directly to..

2) since you are the ONLY one playing, there is no such thing as CHEATING!

It comes down to you. If you believe it is cheating (and you wouldnt have asked if you didnt) then its cheating, period. If you can sleep at night for doing it,...

Yip.

[amers1015]

Ditto Shia. I was about to type something very similar myself.



As far as the OP...I wouldn't consider that cheating myself. I'm sure plenty of henchies would be more than happy to steal *your* stuff and sell it given the chance. And the more goody two shoes types would be happy to donate their things to the cause, no? *grin*

[HipMaestro]

I'm always amazed how we try to impose some sort of RP-value in a predetermined environment.  I mean, in reality rummaging through a corpse's pockets for a few coins or a pair of boots is downright ghoulish.  Yet we seem to yield readily to that premise, no?  You'd think we'd at least don a pair of surgical gloves so as not to contract some sort of fatal illness.  But even a LG character has no compunction frisking a cadaver even if it could be their sainted Uncle Harry who lay decomposing at their feet. Yuckk!

That random looting of chests and armoires, private property, that clearly we have no right to even touch is another convention imposed by the game itself that has no basis in reality.  I do like the way BG maintained at least a random element in looting many containers so that you could well end up in jail in the process of satisfying your thieving compulsion.  I suppose there is custom content out there that simulates that, though I haven't encountered any myself.... yet.

Yeah, trying to RP SP is difficult.  You need to set up some some of personal guidelines to adhere to, but those will always be subjective and may not coincide with others' opinions of  the consequences or "intent".  And there are just better venues for true RP out there in the community.  Lotsa luck RP-ing if you are a RL manic-depressive like someone I am well acquainted with :innocent:  Never a crowd favorite, believe me.

[Shia Luck]

...and the neutral ones? *cheeky grin*



Vansen, All that matter si you enjoy yourself, no? I think I used to cheat quite a bit.... I mostly don't these days, but I certainly know a million ways to cheat so I must've learnt them somehow, no? *grin*

[Muric]

Vansen Elamber wrote...

I just wanted to add to this that I would not have had to sell the Henchies gear if the developers would not have made so many chests with traps on them that can kill me and then once it is open I get 1 gold piece for my efforts...lol

eh... heh... yeah.. i agree with this portion a bit.  the problem is they set loot to be almost completely random.  i've unlocked and disarmed traps on a chest, with pretty steep DCs, and only came out of the ordeal with a single arrow...an ordinary one no less.    the point is... at lvl 9+ it is a very bad thing being near death, have no potions or spells left, and only find a potions of cure light wounds in a chest .   Of course there is always the risk of a critical failure at disarming a trap and dying as a result.   i've been in his shoes once or twice

anyway.. it's more productive to just go into debug mode and spawn yourself an astral blade +8(dm_spawnitem x2_wswmls006), then sell it for the well over 200,000 gold...which is what i do at the beginning of the OC and expansions.  then you can stock up on as many potions as you'll need each chapter, and buy new gear should you find something worth while in a store.   all the while your henchmen get to keep the cloths on their back :innocent:

[avado]

Shia Luck wrote...
I disagree. RP is about playing a character. Some modules will not provide the type of choices you'd like or need for that character, but some modules will. RP is also about buying into the world and situation, and most importantly... RP is about using your imagination.

Some people RP by imagining themselves, their real self in the world. Some RP by taking on a very different character than themseleves. Some play stereotypes, some play personalities, some others are like the author of a book and the character is not them at all. They are all forms of RP to those people who play them.

So I guess ANY book is RP then, no?  Why?  You "buy into" the story and, most importantly, you use your imagination when you read a novel!  Oh right!  Sorry, those are not the criteria of RP, those are what make a GOOD book, TV show, or movie.

You can also have sex alone too.  It isnt really sex though...     (my apologize to the little ones reading this.  I assumed this was an older forum)

[jmlzemaggo]

Years after years, NWN became part of my life. Gaming is far from being innocent. A beautiful woman might be innocent. What she might do to some men isn't, but depending on the men.
I do RP NWN, as a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure I even use it towards my real life. I learned quite much about myself in the Forgotten Realms, even if I never went there... but spent more of my life beyond those forbidden bounds... some of those days... than where I live.
The other word I know for roleplaying is immersion. If I agree with avado, a good book being stronger than yourself won't allow much in RP, a good module does. As to a book being an entire universe by itself, a module only shows you a universe... in which you're allowed to do pretty much anything you want, beside the tiny storyline and even within it.
I'm a "goody two shoes" (Is that how you call it? Fun!) kind of guy, and playing "evil" for instance is believe me very much RP for me.
It took me 2 years of NWN before being able to access this god power.
Now I'm even robbing banks in daytime!
If this is not roleplaying, then what is.

Kids, don't rob banks without your parents watch or approval.
And never forget:
No kill, no bill.

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 07 décembre 2010 - 08:07 .

[KooKoo88]

Amateurs.



This is cheating:



~DebugMode 1

~dm_god

~SetSTR 80

~dm_givegold 99000000

~DebugMode 0

[Kail Pendragon]

There's no cheating in SP. Simple as that.