273 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

In Exile wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
You listed what you wanted:
- customize appearance of MC
- influence interaction with an NPC
- make direct story choices that alter the playing experience as you play it

What are the elements you don't like?  If I know what to avoid I can help you better.

The only RPG feature I actually dislike and would not purchase a game based on is a create-your-own party approach. I like for part of the PC to be defined within the context of the story.

I am honestly indifferent to all other features. So whether a game has the textris-like inventory of NWN/BG or the non-inventory of ME2, it's all the same to me.

Though I should add I prefer pause & play full party combat to any other forms of combat, so I would rank (say from Bioware) DA:O > KoTOR > ME > JE.

Then there are plenty of RPGs out there for you - depending on if turn-based is as good as pause-and-play for you.

I mean, everything from Ultima IV to Fallout to Final Fantasy 6 meets most of what you are looking for.

Customizing appearance is rare in-game, outside of clothing and weapons and such in many games, but you can find it.

It sounds to me like you are more okay with game features than cheering on the changes as improvements would lead many (including myself) to have thought you to be.  A failure of interpretation on my part, I'll admit.

There are, however, games that aren't RPGs (at least not called RPGs) that have a lot of what you seem to mostly want.  Blade Runner is one I often mention for people who like predefined characters, deep stories, and choices that affect the outcome of the game.  Noctropolis was another great game along these lines.

If you really are looking for newer games, PM me and I'll try and help, otherwise I think you know what you are looking for and have a wide variety you'll enjoy.

This is basically where our conflict (as user bases) arises from. What I want in a game are precisely those features that are almost RPG exclusive. But I want them in a different way from the traditional RPG gameplay features, i.e. the fill-in-the-blank character and party creation.

This leads to a preferenece for features like VO, iconic apperances instead of fully customizable inventory and cinematic presentation.

And it's just a matter of personal preference, with no one being right or wrong.
Some prefer to create their characters, some like their character to have a predefined part in a story to follow through.  Some like parties, some don't, some like creating the party, some like recruiting them.  None of that, one way or the other, makes what you want either an RPG or not, in the end.

Still, for me, I think if people want deep story, story choices, and predefined protagonists then they are better served seeking out adventure games like Blade Runner. *shrug*

[Qara]

PARAGON87 wrote...

csoulsby wrote...

The problem with them coming out on the same day is that they'll end up canabalising each others sales. Half of the game's audience will by DE:HR and half will buy DA2, no one wins as both games will be considered a failure and wont get a sequel.

That's a bit pessimistic, don't you think?  Possibly day one sales this will effect, but for preorder it won't really hurt (since only the die-hards preorder and will get it anyway).  But what about day two, day three, day fifty-five?  The effect gets even more minimal as the game depreciates in value.

Only if you're strapped for cash and can only choose one, I guess it would have an effect.  Then there's a used game market so the games will only get cheaper.

Last year two racing games (shift and split second) were release at the same time, they both ended up selling badly even though they were rated very highly.  

The core gamers will still get both but we only make up a small percentage of the sales of a game.  The majority of people who by games only buy 1-2 games a month, by the time there finished first game they'll have forgot completely about the second one.  

[PARAGON87]

csoulsby wrote...

Last year two racing games (shift and split second) were release at the same time, they both ended up selling badly even though they were rated very highly.  

The core gamers will still get both but we only make up a small percentage of the sales of a game.  The majority of people who by games only buy 1-2 games a month, by the time there finished first game they'll have forgot completely about the second one.  

Those two games were very very similar, both going for a heavy action/stunt experience right?  Really they were the same type of game.

Deus Ex and Dragon Age, though RPGs, are two different types of game.  It comes down to fantasy vs sci-fi.  Also its a 1st person shooter vs a 3rd person adventure game. I may have a preference to sci-fi, but really the public tends to drift towards the heavy action/1st person shooters than the fantasy.

In all honesty, I think the public will be more enamored with a trendy and stylish futuristic action game, rather than another fantasy game, and DA2's sales will suffer.

Modifié par PARAGON87, 06 décembre 2010 - 09:09 .

[DMC12]

PARAGON87 wrote...

Deus Ex and Dragon Age, though RPGs, are two different types of game.  It comes down to fantasy vs sci-fi.  Also its a 1st person shooter vs a 3rd person adventure game. I may have a preference to sci-fi, but really the public tends to drift towards the heavy action/1st person shooters than the fantasy.

In all honesty, I think the public will be more enamored with a trendy and stylish futuristic action game, rather than another fantasy game, and DA2's sales will suffer.

I agree with that. "Hardcore" RPGers will still find DA2 more attractive due to character customization, as the original DX, and possibly HR, have static characters. JC Denton's personality never really changed from being cold and calculating, and the immersion was primarily within the setting, rather than the main character and character development.

It's a tough call for me. I might get both at release, I might not. But I'm leaning toward HR, simply because I'm more into cyberpunk, neo-noir, and the Philip K. Dick influences within Deus Ex.

[Morroian]

Brockololly wrote...

If you read earlier on in the
interview the IGN person brings up streamlining in games in general with
respect to Bioshock compared to System Shock and specifically brings up
ME2 and the whole inventory deal in contrast to how DE is keeping the
grid inventory. I'd imagine that and the perceived changes to DA2 is
what they're bringing up.

Why I raised the question is that most of the changes to DA2 aren't actually due to stripping out features due to a lack of intuitiveness as the question in the interview implied. Bioware have reasons for the changes as the devs have explained on here that aren't in general due to a perceived need to dumb down the game. eg. I don't like the changes to companion customisaiton but the reason for it is not to reduce complexity.

[Thunderfox]

slimgrin wrote...

Morroian wrote...

And just what elements does he mean anyway?

* Sigh*

Only on this site.

Tch. How condescending...

[Maria Caliban]

DMC12 wrote...

I agree with that. "Hardcore" RPGers will still find DA2 more attractive due to character customization, as the original DX, and possibly HR, have static characters. JC Denton's personality never really changed from being cold and calculating, and the immersion was primarily within the setting, rather than the main character and character development.

It's a tough call for me. I might get both at release, I might not. But I'm leaning toward HR, simply because I'm more into cyberpunk, neo-noir, and the Philip K. Dick influences within Deus Ex.

I think hardcore RPGers will probably get both. They might get DA 2 first, though if they have the cash, they'll probably preorder both of them for the free character/mission.

[Faust1979]

 I'm just going to get Da2 I might pick up the new Deus Ex at some point but the game isn't a a high priority. 

[Maria Caliban]

csoulsby wrote...

The problem with them coming out on the same day is that they'll end up canabalising each others sales. Half of the game's audience will by DE:HR and half will buy DA2, no one wins as both games will be considered a failure and wont get a sequel.

The first part of your post makes sense. The second, not so much.

DA2 is going to get a sequel. DX:HR might. I don't think they'll impact one another's long-term sales but the first week sales, which seem far more important to publishers, probably will take a hit.

[hexaligned]

DA2 would have to fail horribly to not get a sequel, even assuming they lose a large portion of their PC player base, (not that I think they will, but every PC centric site I have seen has been blasting it pretty hard, so at the very least they are going to take a hit to piracy) The console audience will more than make up for it.



I don't think Dues Ex has enough of a following to really make much of a dent, even assuming the average RPG player doesn't have the spending cash to get both, which at least judging by the people I know, they do.

[blothulfur]

Have the cash, have the inclination just don't have the bloody time somebody seriously needs to make me a time machine or give me enough dosh to retire on. Bloody life getting in the way of my spare time hmph.

[hexaligned]

Heh, I get most of my gaming done at work, or in between classes. Also lucky enough to have a gamer girl, so she doesn't get on my case TOO much about it. Although she did "cure" me of my MMO hobby. Nothing much else to do around here in the winter, unless you like going out drinking every night.



After looking up Dues Ex, it looks kind of meh to me. I'm most likely just going to skip it after all.

[PARAGON87]

relhart wrote...

After looking up Dues Ex, it looks kind of meh to me. I'm most likely just going to skip it after all.

I respect your opinion, just I have this to show you:

27 minute gameplay preview of DX: HR (direct video link here)

[Thunderfox]

relhart wrote...

DA2 would have to fail horribly to not get a sequel, even assuming they lose a large portion of their PC player base, (not that I think they will, but every PC centric site I have seen has been blasting it pretty hard, so at the very least they are going to take a hit to piracy) The console audience will more than make up for it.

Thats causes we've seen Nothing for Pc, they're bei ng premature and need to take a pill. After we see PC gameplay then people should hit the panic button

[Khayness]

Throw in Portal 2 aswell and I'm officially broke.

[hexaligned]

ThunderfoxF wrote...

relhart wrote...

DA2 would have to fail horribly to not get a sequel, even assuming they lose a large portion of their PC player base, (not that I think they will, but every PC centric site I have seen has been blasting it pretty hard, so at the very least they are going to take a hit to piracy) The console audience will more than make up for it.

Thats causes we've seen Nothing for Pc, they're bei ng premature and need to take a pill. After we see PC gameplay then people should hit the panic button

Oh, I'm not saying it's justified, but that's the reality of the situation Bio is facing right now.  Maybe if/when they release PC footage, it'll change around, PC gamers can be fickle creatures though, they are prone to pirate purely out of spite or as a way to "stick it to the man" over develpment designs they don't support.  (even if they still intend to play the games they deride.)  The marketing dept. over at EA might have already sealed the deal in this regard, which really wouldn't be out of character for them.

Modifié par relhart, 07 décembre 2010 - 12:18 .

[slimgrin]

PARAGON87 wrote...

relhart wrote...

After looking up Dues Ex, it looks kind of meh to me. I'm most likely just going to skip it after all.

I respect your opinion, just I have this to show you:

27 minute gameplay preview of DX: HR (direct video link here)

Hmm. The frequent switching from 1st to 3rd person...not sure I like it. And the take downs feel too scripted. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 07 décembre 2010 - 02:19 .

[PARAGON87]

slimgrin wrote...

Hmm. The frequent switching from 1st to 3rd person...not sure I like it. And the take downs feel too scripted. 

Yeah, it's kind of new and hard to get used too, but it's really unique and intuitive. Really sticking behind cover in 1st person isn't so dynamic as 3rd person (you can't see over your cover without drawing fire). This mechanic is already in the new Goldeneye as well.  The irony is I think Perfect Dark Zero started this.

Yeah, it seems like they are scripted.  Though I would say if you think that was scripted, then you have to say the assassination takedowns in Assassins Creed 1, 2 & Brotherhood were as well.  (Not to mention killing an Ogre in DA:O).

Modifié par PARAGON87, 07 décembre 2010 - 02:56 .

[slimgrin]

I liked the take downs in AA because they were short and sweet.

And Watching Leliana ride the arch demon's head at the end of DA, stabbing that bastard through the skull, that was one of the most epic take downs I've seen in a game.

I'm certainly not ruling Deus Ex out at this point though. It's dated gameplay, a lot can change.

Modifié par slimgrin, 07 décembre 2010 - 02:52 .

[Gvaz]

I'm getting Deus Ex 3. Everything so far about DA2 is just wrong.

Deus Ex is dated gameplay?

First person integrated with RPG elements? wtf are you smoking?

Modifié par GvazElite, 07 décembre 2010 - 02:54 .

[slimgrin]

GvazElite wrote...

I'm getting Deus Ex 3. Everything so far about DA2 is just wrong.

Deus Ex is dated gameplay?

First person integrated with RPG elements? wtf are you smoking?

I'm referring to the fact it's a dated build of the game, not dated gameplay. Poor wording on my part.

[PARAGON87]

slimgrin wrote...

I'm referring to the fact it's a dated build of the game, not dated gameplay. Poor wording on my part.

The thing that gets me is that the video was the pre-alpha build.  Pre-alpha!

Who knows what they have in-house now! 

(This actually makes me feel better about DA2, how the only direction they can go is up).

[ErichHartmann]

Human Revolution's combat system looks a lot more appealing than any RPG elements. Yep, if I end up buying it will be for the action.

[DarthCaine]

[voad]

DMC12 wrote...

PARAGON87 wrote...

Deus Ex and Dragon Age, though RPGs, are two different types of game.  It comes down to fantasy vs sci-fi.  Also its a 1st person shooter vs a 3rd person adventure game. I may have a preference to sci-fi, but really the public tends to drift towards the heavy action/1st person shooters than the fantasy.

In all honesty, I think the public will be more enamored with a trendy and stylish futuristic action game, rather than another fantasy game, and DA2's sales will suffer.

I agree with that. "Hardcore" RPGers will still find DA2 more attractive due to character customization, as the original DX, and possibly HR, have static characters. JC Denton's personality never really changed from being cold and calculating, and the immersion was primarily within the setting, rather than the main character and character development.

It's a tough call for me. I might get both at release, I might not. But I'm leaning toward HR, simply because I'm more into cyberpunk, neo-noir, and the Philip K. Dick influences within Deus Ex.

Not sure if you are referring to the VO for Denton or not. But Denton was customizable, and his VO was actually purposefully done in the sort of monotone you hear so that the player didn't have any.... sorry I'm pretty tired and can't think of the right word here..... tone? They wanted the player to be able to hear the VO from JC and still interpret it as their own. JC can come off as a bit uncharismatic because of that I suppose but I really liked it. You could also choose from a few preset JC models, all males of different genders though they looked very similar still.