129 réponses à ce sujet

[Realranger55]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I think some people are confused on the good game hierarchy so I will explain from best to worst:

Best
Good game, Long game
Good game, Short game
Bad game, Long game
Bad game, Short game
Worst

Quality and quantity are seperate things but both have an effect on the overall game.
Longer is better, except when it hurts the quality of the game.

Interesting, though considering that bioware has yet to release a game I would call bad we can generally assume it will be good. Leaving the only determining factor to be length. Based on the good game hierarchy of course.

[Ziggeh]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Bad game, Long game
Bad game, Short game

I'd prefer bad games to be short!

[slimgrin]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I think some people are confused on the good game hierarchy so I will explain from best to worst:

Best
Good game, Long game
Good game, Short game
Bad game, Long game
Bad game, Short game
Worst

Quality and quantity are seperate things but both have an effect on the overall game.
Longer is better, except when it hurts the quality of the game.

I like your list there. Makes sense.

[Realranger55]

Atakuma wrote...

Realranger55 wrote...


What nothing, its just a common trait in good rpg's. 

So, some good RPGs are long, therefore longer RPGs are better?

yep

[Maria Caliban]

'Longer is better' has produced 70% of the offal found in modern fantasy while 'Bigger is better' has made America the fattest nation on Earth. Size matters. Both BG 2 and DA:O suffered from glandular deficiency. Here's to hoping that DA 2 has spent more time on the treadmill and less sitting in front of the TV eating Ben and Jerry's Phish Food.

[Tiax Rules All]

Maria Caliban wrote...

'Longer is better' has produced 70% of the offal found in modern fantasy while 'Bigger is better' has made America the fattest nation on Earth. Size matters. Both BG 2 and DA:O suffered from glandular deficiency. Here's to hoping that DA 2 has spent more time on the treadmill and less sitting in front of the TV eating Ben and Jerry's Phish Food.

I disagree with all of this and whatever your point was

[upsettingshorts]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Size matters

I thought it was the amount of motion choice in the ocean RPG.

Realranger55 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

So, some good RPGs are long, therefore longer RPGs are better?

yep

Well done, I hadn't seen circular logic endorsed so explicitly on these forums before.  Now I have.

[Atakuma]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I think some people are confused on the good game hierarchy so I will explain from best to worst:

Best
Good game, Long game
Good game, Short game
Bad game, Long game
Bad game, Short game
Worst

Quality and quantity are seperate things but both have an effect on the overall game.
Longer is better, except when it hurts the quality of the game.

This is silly. A bad game doesn't benefit from being longer, if anything it makes it worse because you are getting more of a bad thing.

[LTD]

Dave of Canada wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

No races, no origins. Take that as you will...

Multiple Hawke personalities, (we assume) the choice of who-dies companion-wise at the start of the game and such should add quite a bit of replayability.

Multiple Hawke personalities? Highly unlikely.  With fully voice acted game, it is too easy to imagine this isn't really tried at all or, alternatively, they cake up an embarrassing attempt of an illusion. AKA the Mass Effect method.

Hot Pirate Chick With Boobies of vast scale: Hawke, you are so interesting! What is your favorite color?
 
- - - BLACK, of course                       - - -  The oppposite of white!
- - - Something GRIM                       
..whatever you pick, the voice actor says " why, it's black hun!"

In My H as an F O, replay value mostly comes from the  sense/illusion/impression of a world waiting to get explored and adventured in. If the game is lacking in this department,offering just a pipe with occasional intersections(which always just join right b ack in the "main pipe" soon enough) it always feels like a terrible idea to return to the game, even if it is enjoyable and  exiting. I need to be able to go " off road" and do my thing, lest it is impossible to force a single replay.

Modifié par LTD, 06 décembre 2010 - 02:23 .

[Tiax Rules All]

If you prefer, call it a "not as good game"

if its bad you just wont play it...

but if a game was not really good then on top of that ended abrupty and shortly then I think that would make it worse.



I get your reasoning but when it comes down to it, i dont think you would really feel that way

[upsettingshorts]

Pacing trumps running time. In almost all narrative fiction I've been exposed to.

[Realranger55]

I would prefer it if they chopped the game up into a bunch of small episodes then sold them to me at random intervals for 10bucks a piece........ uh oh

Modifié par Realranger55, 06 décembre 2010 - 02:30 .

[Atakuma]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Pacing trumps running time. In almost all narrative fiction I've been exposed to.

This is exactly the reason I was more satisfied with the 20 hours i got out of ME1 than the 30 I got out of ME2.

[Realranger55]

Atakuma wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Pacing trumps running time. In almost all narrative fiction I've been exposed to.

This is exactly the reason I was more satisfied with the 20 hours i got out of ME1 than the 30 I got out of ME2.

ME2 was longer then ME1? I must be missing some dlc.

[Atakuma]

Realranger55 wrote...

I would prefer it if they chopped the game up into a bunch of small episodes then sold them to me at random intervals for 10bucks a piece........ uh oh

You should do stand-up. I'm sure Dane Cook could use an understudy.

[Realranger55]

Atakuma wrote...

Realranger55 wrote...

I would prefer it if they chopped the game up into a bunch of small episodes then sold them to me at random intervals for 10bucks a piece........ uh oh

You should do stand-up. I'm sure Dane Cook could use an understudy.

You should do the negative guy on the forums who only critiques others post but never adds anything of his own. You got that **** down pat

[In Exile]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Granted, I'm not really sure what I'd replace "hours played" with. But that's the feeling I get when people talk about it - that it simply doesn't work the way people just assume it does.  Don't feel like I'm being insulting or singling people out though, some very smart people took batting average and RBIs to be important and indicative of individual performance and a reliable indicator of future production in baseball for a century.

The problem is what people do. For example, if I read every single codex entry and then think on them I might add 2 hours to ME2. I'm sure this has a role in DA:O. I think pause & play versus using tactics also makes a difference; I tried a playthrough with tactics, and while it's not my style, it's absolutely faster.

simfamSP wrote...
Dragon age: origins was a short game, but
it's but HUGE piece in the middle of 'a' and 'b' that made it so long. I
am hoping 35 hours of the main plot + 20 hours on side quests + 5 hours
of extra dialogue +... I'm sure DA2 will be MUCH longer than what the
devs say. It just depends on the way the player plays it.

This actually captures my objection to the story in DA:O very well. The story is actually really simple, like most Bioware games. It's start portion - predictable middle - short endgame. Every game since JE does this. JE was the last game that actually swapped the story in stages on you after the Imperial City.

I really wish Bioware games would not be 100% predictable about 20 minutes in.

[In Exile]

Atakuma wrote...
This is silly. A bad game doesn't benefit from being longer, if anything it makes it worse because you are getting more of a bad thing.

I don't understand how we can even quantify length for a bad game. Who is willing to sit through it?

[DarthCaine]

Quality > Quantity



I preferred ME2's and KOTOR's 35 hours over DAO's 55 hours

[In Exile]

LTD wrote...
Hot Pirate Chick With Boobies of vast scale: Hawke, you are so interesting! What is your favorite color?
 
- - - BLACK, of course                       - - -  The oppposite of white!
- - - Something GRIM                       
..whatever you pick, the voice actor says " why, it's black hun!"

In My H as an F O, replay value mostly comes from the  sense/illusion/impression of a world waiting to get explored and adventured in. If the game is lacking in this department,offering just a pipe with occasional intersections(which always just join right b ack in the "main pipe" soon enough) it always feels like a terrible idea to return to the game, even if it is enjoyable and  exiting. I need to be able to go " off road" and do my thing, lest it is impossible to force a single replay.

This is what all RPGs do. It just that with no VO, they tie all three options to the NPC respose "Wow, what a great favourite colour!" RPGs rarely have coherent answers that actually tag on to what you just said.

[slimgrin]

Bioware so far has dialed in the length of their games just fine, I think. Shorts is right, pacing trumps length, but I would be disappointed in a game that is blatantly shorter than their past efforts.

Dr Muzyka cited the work of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. Wish I had that link. He discussed the reward/effort ratio in games, and the concept of 'flow'. It's why I think they implement filler like planet scanning and hacking. Its downtime, and compliments the more intense segments of the game.

Trust me, I'm not defending planet scanning here, but I think I understand the idea behind it.

Modifié par slimgrin, 06 décembre 2010 - 02:55 .

[SnakeStrike8]

'Longer than Awakenings' doesn't meant squat. I finished that CD in 15 hours, and that was with sorting most of the 'board' quests.

If I had to guess, I'm thinking 30 hours at most for DA 2. About a month, the way I play RPGs.

[rabbitchannel]

simfamSP wrote...

rab****annel wrote...

DA:O didn't really have insane replayability. Yes, you could make different in-game choices and see where that went, so story-wise, yeah. Game play however... If you play the first time with a balanced party, you've pretty much covered what it would be like to be a mage/rogue/warrior. This is because there is no distinction between companions. The only unique characters would be Shale, Dog, and to a lesser extent, Sten (for having 1 spec). The 2nd time around you would have covered the alternative builds/specs. They took out companion uniqueness. What makes Morrigan and Alistair different from a Mage/Shapeshifter and Warrior/Templar? Nothing. The should have followed NWN's route. The different origins help, but it's like, what, 2 hrs?

3 classes + 3 races + lack of companions with unique abilities = less replayability.

To Hell with the 'classes' and the 'stats'! What we re-played the game for was for the different companion situations what else made Dragon age different from any other fantasy RPG other than it's awesome dialouge and companions?

Huh? Not played a whole lot of RPGs then? Baldur's Gate series, NWN series, NWN 2 series, etc?

[Allies1991]

hopefully long enough to play till me3 comes out, and then me3 being long enough for da3 and then... im sure u get the point!

[Soul Cool]

If it has >30 hours of quality content, I will be extremely pleased.