56 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

How would you create an inner conflict in a non-defined PC?

With good writing?

That's terribly unspecific. You might as well say "you just do."

Kreia came pretty close.

Howso?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 05 décembre 2010 - 02:09 .

[BlazePT]

And I came here thinking you all wanted Joker from ME as a villain.

[Annie_Dear]

BlazePT wrote...

And I came here thinking you all wanted Joker from ME as a villain.

Alright, you made me laugh. Loud.

And yes, I wouldn't mind a Joker-like villian.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

How would you create an inner conflict in a non-defined PC?

With good writing?

That's terribly unspecific. You might as well say "you just do."

Kreia came pretty close.

Howso?

Unspecific? I thought giving Kreia as an example would make it clear enough. She did a good job at making the Exile ask themselves if they were sure of it after each action they took. When one really tries to understand what she says, it is easy to start questioning one's morals and drives, be they dark or light.

Kreia's motives and the resulting state of the Exile are another story, though.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Maria Caliban wrote...
How would you create an inner conflict in a non-defined PC?

DA2 is a third person narative, so I think it's possible to an extent.

If the companion is a Templar, or Chantry believer / sympathiser, he might create tension vis a vis Bethany, the apostate (or Hawke).
He might be a native Free Marcher who doesn't like refugees. Or he might be the kind of person that would remind Hawke how he abandonned Ferelden.
Also, that kind of character might cause inner conflict with each possible choice Hawke might make, by challenging them (something like Alistair's rant after Redcliffe). This would also be somewhat similar to Sten, except he'd try harder to get everyone to follow him / her instead.

It's not impossible. Though it wouldn't be perfect.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 décembre 2010 - 03:31 .

[MrDizazta]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Setting out to make a Joker-esque villain just to have a Joker-esque villain would almost certainly end up lousy. Characters have to come naturally to the story, not the other way around. Besides, the Joker has been presented in many ways. He was originally a goofy prankster who stole stuff and robbed places for the monetary gain. It wasn't until writers like Alan Moore got their hands on him that he became a psychopath with no motive except to inflict pain and suffering. Sure, that makes for a scary villain, but not necessarily a satisfying story.

Wrong about Joker being originally a goofy prankster.  The original Joker (Golden Age) was as much a homicidal clown as he is in the modern era.  The Joker you are refering to is the Silver Age one where he was made into a harmless prankster after all comic books were forced to censor their material because of Comics Code Authority censorship board.

[hexaligned]

The Joker is a Trickster, I can't see one as a main antagonist is this sort of setting, I'd like to see Bioware replace the Wise Mentor archtype they usually go with one at some point though. If you want to use the most recent Batman movie as an example, The Joker taught him about his nature and his place in the world, that's a pretty common Trickster theme. I wouldn't mind having one as a party member either.

As for internal conflict... the only way I can see it being portrayed (rather than just implied and assumed) in a game without internal dialogue or a POV narrative, is if the PC just spent a whole lot of time whining to someone, I'd rather not have to sit through that.

Modifié par relhart, 05 décembre 2010 - 03:59 .

[Eveangaline]

Which version of the joker? Old comics, new comics, mark hammil, the early movies, the later movies, the recent cartoons?

[Khayness]

Eveangaline wrote...

Which version of the joker? Old comics, new comics, mark hammil, the early movies, the later movies, the recent cartoons?

Didn't you get the memo? There is only The Dark Knight Joker now.

Modifié par Khayness, 05 décembre 2010 - 04:02 .

[Descara]

BlazePT wrote...

And I came here thinking you all wanted Joker from ME as a villain.

Same. **** would be cash.


As for a "the Joker"-esque villain, just no.

Modifié par Descara, 05 décembre 2010 - 04:23 .

[Drake Sigar]

Eveangaline wrote...

Which version of the joker? Old comics, new comics, mark hammil, the early movies, the later movies, the recent cartoons?

Cesar Romero.

[BlazePT]

How well would that work? The said villain had to adapt to the PC. Our choices, moralities, etc. as so to create that level of antagonism.

i.e pull a psycho mantis and read our saves.

[Ziggeh]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The Joker is an incredibly one-dimensional character, regardless of how stylishly he's been presented recently.

I actually think that's his strength. He's not so much a character as a force of nature. Any real introspection or motive would spoil the effect, he only really works as a foil to batman's motivations.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 05 décembre 2010 - 08:51 .

[maxernst]

Annie_Dear wrote...

BlazePT wrote...

And I came here thinking you all wanted Joker from ME as a villain.

Alright, you made me laugh. Loud.

And yes, I wouldn't mind a Joker-like villian.

That was my first though too--and it would certainly be a more creative option.  I'd prefer the ME Joker as a romance option for male Hawke, though, rather than a villain. 

[ErichHartmann]

I hope DAII brings back the murder knife. I want to be the depraved individual who kills on a whim when the oppurtunity presents itself.

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 05 décembre 2010 - 10:19 .

[AlanC9]

BlazePT wrote...

And I came here thinking you all wanted Joker from ME as a villain.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

[Marionetten]

I'd love to see a psychotic villain acting on impulse if only to change things up a little. By now the whole Machiavellian mastermind archetype is criminally overdone.

[quicksilver_502]

AlanC9 wrote...

BlazePT wrote...

And I came here thinking you all wanted Joker from ME as a villain.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

me too. although, having a villain a bit like ME joker would be cool, except obviously he'd be a bad guy. i'm thinking a sarcastic, affably evil villain who mocks and jokes around with hawke...while trying to kill him.

[thegreateski]

No thank you, I've had it up to "here" with psychopaths.

[Chill 0078]

Maverick827 wrote...

The only reason why The Joker can exist is because Batman (decidedly) cannot kill him. I doubt Hawke would have a similar problem.

Not if Hawke is weakened by the power the story battle

[Jarek_Cousland]

BlazePT wrote...

How well would that work? The said villain had to adapt to the PC. Our choices, moralities, etc. as so to create that level of antagonism.
i.e pull a psycho mantis and read our saves.

"ssssssssssooooooooooo...You like to play Doa Xtreme 2??"


Uhhh......No...

[SnakeStrike8]

Joker was a nut job, and his insanity was a key component to his character and the challenge he represented to Batman.

Creating that sort of character in DA 2 will result in many players dismissing him as a lunatic, which will indeed be true. I'd prefer to have a villain like Loghain, who was most certainly not insane, and committed morally unacceptable acts for reasons other than watching people suffer.

[Jarek_Cousland]

Loghain was crazy. His mistrust and paranoia over the Orlesians was down right insane, he didnt care about the darkspawn, or killing his best friends son as he saw them as the true threat to everything.





It isnt until after you conscript him that it opens up his mind to realize there are things bigger then just his country. And he cant do everything.

[SnakeStrike8]

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

Loghain was crazy. His mistrust and paranoia over the Orlesians was down right insane, he didnt care about the darkspawn, or killing his best friends son as he saw them as the true threat to everything.


It isnt until after you conscript him that it opens up his mind to realize there are things bigger then just his country. And he cant do everything.

But that mistrust of the Orlesians wasn't brought about by brain damage or some other manaical condition, it was created as a result of all the atrocities he witnessed during the rebellion at the hands of the Orlesians. That's my point: Loghain had a reason for hating the Orlesians that went beyond simply being mad, and he abandoned his adopted son as a result of it. This is what I meant by having a villain motivated by something other than pure sadism, which is certainly what category Joker falls into.