19 réponses à ce sujet

[Wygrath]

 Are you PC guys using mods or something? I'm playing on Insanity to knock out the achievement and to experience the game with all of the DLC so far. 

I can't last half as long as these fools who are just running into situations and still keeping some of their Barrier up. If I use Barrier I can't use another power because the cool down takes forever.

If I peak out of cover for more than a second or so I'm toast. Sometimes I'm dying from just peaking out to toss out a singularity or Warp.

Either the vids that I've seen are guys using heavy mods, they are not playing on insanity, or the PC version has faster recovery after using powers so they can use them more often and the enemies don't do as much damage.

What am I missing here? 

[lazuli]

I am an xbox Insanity player, and I am not aware of differences in cooldown length between the PC and xbox versions of the game. It is more likely that the videos you are referring to feature players capable of gauging risks accurately, players that know their limits.

[Wygrath]

lazuli wrote...

I am an xbox Insanity player, and I am not aware of differences in cooldown length between the PC and xbox versions of the game. It is more likely that the videos you are referring to feature players capable of gauging risks accurately, players that know their limits.

No you're wrong. The cooldowns are clearly shorter than what I'm seeing, by a very large margin. I don't have a capture card or anything to upload my 360 footage, but it's not a perception thing and these guys aren't gauging risks. You can't run out in the open like these fools are doing on insanity as an Adept. Not only that, but you can't cast Barrier and then start chucking Warps and Pulls right after. The cooldown is too long.

[lazuli]

Please link to the videos in which people are using Barrier and then immediately following it with other powers. Also note that there are ways to reduce cooldowns.



And yes, you can run out in the open if you properly assess the situation, lock enemies down through use of stagger, tanking (Grunt or drones), crowd control effects (when they are no longer defended, or with Singularity through defenses), or just sprinting. It helps to have a plan.



Are you playing a NG+ Insanity Adept?

[AntiChri5]

I am an Xbox insanity player and have noticed no such discrepancy.



It is very possible to run out into the open if you play right.

[Daewan]

I own both the PC and Xbox versions of ME and ME2. I have not noticed any particular delay in response time on the Xbox. Since I am more familiar with the Xbox version, I am much better on it and prefer to play on the Xbox for fun, and this includes risking my life running out into the open and hoping I don't get hit while readying my next ability. It really is a timing thing. You'll get it down eventually.

Also, it's possible the videos are sped up. Usually the person who has made the video will tell you upfront or in a comment that not everything is in real time, but I've seen videos they speed things up because waiting for cooldown is boring. But rest assured, in gameplay, everything happens at the same speed as on the Xbox.

[mcsupersport]

You might find a player who has modded his cool downs(if you even can) but not many are making vidoes of it without posting exactly what they have done. Some of the best are modding in new guns to give a different feel to the adept.



Mind you there is a huge difference between the early part of the game and the later part of the game in cool downs and the time used to cast. Leveling the Adept class skill cuts cool downs, as well as the upgrade you receive after getting the 3rd biotic upgrade also does the same. When you stack both of these you will see a huge difference in play. Also as you level up and increase upgrades your shields will get bigger and tougher, meaning you can stick your head out longer without getting killed.



As an insanity adept player, I can tell you there is a learning curve, but the adept is very powerful if played correctly.

[PrinceLionheart]

 I'm also an Xbox player, and it's more certainly possible to survive out in the open as long as you plan out your strategy smartly. One thing I notice that I hadn't been previously doing is using Medigel for a quicker heal instead of staying in cover and waiting for your health to come back naturally.

[khevan]

People who post videos generally are using level 30 characters (or at least high level) to go through a certain mission, and show off how they play.  At that level there are lots of cooldown reductions that an Adept has access to, including the passive ability and the biotic cooldown upgrade you get after researching a certain number of biotic damage upgrades.  The early going with an Adept is a pain, because the cooldowns are so long, but once the cooldown reductions are gained, it's a much smoother experience.

This is probably what's happening.  You're seeing people's vids who have the reductions, and you may not have them, so yes, you'll see a difference in the cooldowns, but it's not because of mods or differences between the two systems.  You just haven't gotten that far yet.

[kstarler]

I felt the same way when I first started playing on Insantiy. It felt like I always died very quickly, and was taking way more damage than the folks in the videos, even when doing almost exactly what I saw them do. However, after playing through the game on Insanity multiple times, my experiences are very near to what folks show in their videos. What's the difference? I don't rightly know, but I suspect it's personal experience and my own passive ability to judge the battlefield improving. Also, it's prioritization of upgrades, to get the cool down reductions and weapon upgrades specific to my class/build as quickly as possible from the outset.

I have noticed that insanity is actually harder if I hang back behind cover and try to cast/snipe enemies, because I end up getting flanked or running out of ammo. Insanity really does reward more aggressive play, though if you're a cautious player like me, it can be both frustrating and difficult to adopt that mindset.

One other thought is, if you are hiding behind cover and peaking out to cast/snipe, you are giving the enemy an opportunity to zone in on your position, which means you'll end up taking more fire the longer you wait to cast or move out of cover. One way to offset this is by using the powerwheel to pause play and gauge the battlefield. I would suggest Sinosleep's Vanguard tutorial vidoes. Even if you aren't playing a Vanguard, they are handy for getting an idea of how to judge the battlefield and play more aggressively.

Finally, since it reads like you are playing an Adept, have you maxed out your passive? If not, then you are going to have longer cool downs, so you might consider retraining. Also, try to focus on biotic upgrades if you don't have three of them yet. Once you have three, you can unlock the research to reduce biotic cool downs by 20%, which makes a HUGE difference. I believe that with both the biotic research and the passive maxed, the cool down on Barrier should be around 6 seconds.

Modifié par kstarler, 05 décembre 2010 - 10:32 .

[Praetor Knight]

Wygrath wrote...

 Are you PC guys using mods or something? I'm playing on Insanity to knock out the achievement and to experience the game with all of the DLC so far. 

I can't last half as long as these fools who are just running into situations and still keeping some of their Barrier up. If I use Barrier I can't use another power because the cool down takes forever.

If I peak out of cover for more than a second or so I'm toast. Sometimes I'm dying from just peaking out to toss out a singularity or Warp.

Either the vids that I've seen are guys using heavy mods, they are not playing on insanity, or the PC version has faster recovery after using powers so they can use them more often and the enemies don't do as much damage.

What am I missing here? 

The Vanguard Biotic Charge does not get a cooldown bonus.

But other powers benefit from class cooldowns and cooldown upgrades, then with enough into Unity one can recharge their shields/barriers also.

Then with the right armor and shield upgrades one can get a boost in their shields/barriers, Kestrel pieces in particular.

The rest is skill, and knowing what to do in particular situations.

Huzzah!

[Locutus_of_BORG]

AntiChri5 wrote...

I am an Xbox insanity player and have noticed no such discrepancy.

It is very possible to run out into the open if you play right.

^Yeah, the reason why we tend to look up to the Kronners, Sinosleeps, thisisme8s of this forum is because they're pretty genuinely skilled at this game. A lot of 'speed' you see in their plays are really more like sheer efficiency than actual mechanical speed - very little wasted movements coupled with intimate knowledge of the game's mechanics. In fact, I think at least one of the prominent guys actually plays on an Xbox.

It also helps to have max-levelled characters.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 05 décembre 2010 - 09:56 .

[FoxShadowblade]

If you can't survive in the open, your doing something wrong.



Go for power damage, the key to Insanity with any class is that dead enemies don't hurt you.

[Bozorgmehr]

Wygrath wrote...

I can't last half as long as these fools who are just running into situations and still keeping some of their Barrier up. If I use Barrier I can't use another power because the cool down takes forever.

You can't use powers while waiting on Barrier's cooldown; remember most vids are made by pc players and the hotkeys include squadmate powers. You can activate Barrier, but still use both squadmates' powers.

If I peak out of cover for more than a second or so I'm toast. Sometimes I'm dying from just peaking out to toss out a singularity or Warp.

There isn't any difference between peaking and standing out in the open. Enemies have perfect aim on Insanity so usually it's better to move / flank enemy positions than staying in 'cover' - your barrier is going to be blown off anyway so why not use this to your advantage.

Either the vids that I've seen are guys using heavy mods, they are not playing on insanity, or the PC version has faster recovery after using powers so they can use them more often and the enemies don't do as much damage.

It's quite easy to clock video cooldowns and I'm not aware they could be modified. In most vids I removed HW for practical uses (no pausing to switch weapons); I added the Claymore because Adepts can't use my favorite ME2 weapon; and I removed squadmates to play solo.

What am I missing here? 

Upgrades and passive will net a 40% cooldown reduction (Adept); reducing Barrier's base 12 s cooldown to 6-7 s which is pretty good (early game without reduction is really bad). Shield upgrades further improve your barrier, Hard Shields and Redundant Generator make a big difference - get them asap.

Barrier is best used before battle (just wait for cd to finish before attacking); and as a lifesaver. It can be used always (even when stunned) and will restore full shields. This buys time to either kill enemies quickly or get cover fast. However, Barrier will not last long under heavy fire (less than a second) - this ain't ME1.

[Bozorgmehr]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

It also helps to have max-levelled characters.

You'll be at your peak around level 15-20; you have all the crucial powers maxed; got all the important upgrades (3+2 bonus); bonus weapon; and squadies will perform best also. Difference is rather small though compared to a level 30 character, upgrades are key here - once you get those on NG+ it stops being NG+.

[sinosleep]

It there was any difference in something as controllable as CD times it certainly wouldn't be in favor of the PC.

Christina Norman wrote...

Yes on 360 you can't melée and aim at the same time, you can on pc. That is an advantage to pc.



But, how long does it take to tap B with your thumb and then start aiming again?



You may lose 75ms maybe? That is what I always do. I may not be firing as quickly as someone on a PC hammering buttons but it still works out fine.



Balancing for pc vs console is incredibly difficult, we do our best (enemies are tougher on pc than on xbox) but pc will always offer more precise controls, and better sequencing of attacks.

That's the lead gameplay designer, I've bolded the first and last lines of that post to make things clear. The devs are WELL AWARE of the PCs advantages and as such any gimping would be done to PC players NOT console players.

Modifié par sinosleep, 05 décembre 2010 - 10:17 .

[Ahglock]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

There isn't any difference between peaking and standing out in the open. Enemies have perfect aim on Insanity so usually it's better to move / flank enemy positions than staying in 'cover' - your barrier is going to be blown off anyway so why not use this to your advantage.

I think that is the main thing to realise.  Once you are on insanity, you are either fully behind cover or not in cover.  So movement, flanking etc can help a lot as long as you get good at shooting on the run. 

For each class you have to think of what your damage avoider power is.  Soldiers have AR, Vanguards charge, infiltrators have stealth, engineers have the drone, sentinels have tech armor, and adepts have singualrity.  While each one is used differently they all have the same idea they either reduce the number of things that can hit you, or reduce the effects of being hit.  Heavy singularity placed right stops 2-3 targets from shnooting at you for a short while(a few seconds) but those few seconds let you move aorund and kill trhings.  Virtually every map is built so you can neutralize a few guys and run aorund on a path that reduces the number of poeple who shoot at you to a manageable level. 

Also I would not get to bothered by what people do on the videos because 1, they probably have a lot more practice, and 2 in most videos you can find a point or two where they are absurdly close to death and if one thing went a bit more wrong they would be dead.  Like I just watrched a claymore shotgun vanguard vs the thresher maw video.  There was a point where he was running at the thresher the vanguard is at 1/2 health it spit and hit him, he should be dead right.  No at the exact moment the spit hit his sheild had begun to regenerate and he takes no damage.  Overall what he did was skill, that moment was luck.  You will be noticing those luck moments when tour shield regens a second to late more often than when it regens right on time. 

[Tony Gunslinger]

Being able to assign multiple powers to hotkeys on the PC may also make it seem like PC players' cooldowns are faster, when it's really just that they can use those powers more precise. As a console player, I don't how many times I've mistakenly ordered my squad to throw themselves into the pit of hell when I really actually just wanted to them to help me about a bit. Another thing is that in most of the videos you've seen, the players have learned to do other things while waiting for cooldowns, such as shooting right after using a power, scanning for enemies, scanning for flanking points, scanning for covers to retreat when they decide to flank, reloading and switching weapons, etc. They don't sit there and watch at what they just did; the instant they've casted a power, they already know the next two steps. Those guys got into a rhythm with the cooldown times, they've learned that by not pausing the game too much. And sometimes, well, it's just plain luck.

[Mocker22]

To the OP: How man ugrades do you have?

Insanty is , well, insane until you get your Cooldown reductions and Hard Shields. Can't over state enough Hard Shields and Damage Protection upgrades. Makes all the dfference.

[Nooneyouknow13]

Insanity just chewed me up badly before I made the realization that shooting from cover hurt me more than helped me. You need to be mobile as much as possible and be heading for those spawn points to avoid getting overwhelmed.