120 réponses à ce sujet

[Kenshen]

I thought Kaidan was more realistic especially when he questions if we have been manipulated or not. And Ash well I really don't care what happens to her anyways so the only thing I would have liked different was a more mean and cold responses.

[Alienmorph]

I've found it good. It would have been unrealistic if all our previous squaddies simply returned with us with no problems, and the VS is one with the strongest motivations, due to its loyalty to the Alliance. I can understand, off course, that who romanced with him/her got pissed... it's exaclty the kind of scenery I don't wanna see for my fav. LI, so really... it's good, but I'd share the disappointement of Ash\\Kaiden fans if I was at their place.

[Yakko77]

Combat wise, Horizon was one of the most satisfying missions in the game. Very challenging even on a normal difficulty IMO.



As for the encounter with Ash/Kai, that they didn't respond rationally sort of put a damper on the mission.



Ash/Kai: Why didn't you contact me?



Shep: I was DEAD!



Ash/Kai: Yeah, but you still should've called.



Shep: But I was dea..... ah forget it.



At least you get a Email from them later but still....

[luakel]

I liked the idea of it.. It'd be nice to have all of Shepard's old pals believe him unconditionally, but c'mon, he's working with a known terrorist organization. Plus Ash/Kaidan have moved on. I can understand why Garrus and Tali would rush to Shepard's side (Garrus is basically Shep's protege, and Tali's got some hero-worship going on), but it made sense that not everyone would be so willing. Two years is a long time, and people don't come back from the dead. Why should Kaidan/Ashley even accept that? Especially Ash, you'd think based on her religious background, she'd be a bit more angry over people playing god with by bringing Shep back.

But the dialogue just killed it. No Ash, it wasn't that I didn't contact you because you'd moved on, it was because I was dead. And when I woke up a few weeks ago, my new boss didn't know where you were, and neither did Anderson. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned how nonchalant Shepard was about the VS not being taken by Collectors, I agree. I wanted to see Shepard get a big grin once s/he saw their old pal alive and well. Plus, my Shepard wasn't working with Cerberus for the good of the galaxy, he was working with them because he had no other choice. So it would've been nice if he could tell Ash that, tell her to try to get the Council's heads out of the sand, because as soon as they give Shepard something more than "you're a Spectre again, stay in the Terminus", he'll jump ship from Cerberus immediately. But no one else offered support, even Anderson never asked Shepard to come back to the Alliance. And I wish that could have been said, to show that Shepard's a person with feelings and frustrations and not just a "bloody icon." Oh well.

[Yakko77]

luakel wrote...

I liked the idea of it.. It'd be nice to have all of Shepard's old pals believe him unconditionally, but c'mon, he's working with a known terrorist organization. Plus Ash/Kaidan have moved on. I can understand why Garrus and Tali would rush to Shepard's side (Garrus is basically Shep's protege, and Tali's got some hero-worship going on), but it made sense that not everyone would be so willing. Two years is a long time, and people don't come back from the dead. Why should Kaidan/Ashley even accept that? Especially Ash, you'd think based on her religious background, she'd be a bit more angry over people playing god with by bringing Shep back.

But the dialogue just killed it. No Ash, it wasn't that I didn't contact you because you'd moved on, it was because I was dead. And when I woke up a few weeks ago, my new boss didn't know where you were, and neither did Anderson. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned how nonchalant Shepard was about the VS not being taken by Collectors, I agree. I wanted to see Shepard get a big grin once s/he saw their old pal alive and well. Plus, my Shepard wasn't working with Cerberus for the good of the galaxy, he was working with them because he had no other choice. So it would've been nice if he could tell Ash that, tell her to try to get the Council's heads out of the sand, because as soon as they give Shepard something more than "you're a Spectre again, stay in the Terminus", he'll jump ship from Cerberus immediately. But no one else offered support, even Anderson never asked Shepard to come back to the Alliance. And I wish that could have been said, to show that Shepard's a person with feelings and frustrations and not just a "bloody icon." Oh well.

Good point.  I  hadn't really considered Ash's religious views regarding Cerberus playing God and bringing Shepard back.

Shepard has so few friends in the galaxy it seems.  The Council basically banish you.  The Alliance wanted to put you on trial when they find out you're with Cerberus (Adm. Hackett puts a stop to that though) and even Anderson barely trusts you now.  The list goes on.

Saving the galaxy from the Reapers (and itself to a point) is a thankless job it would seem.

[Nashiktal]

To me the VS initial reaction is excused and expected. However after all shep has been through, after being in a coma for so long, after having bioware force shep to work with cerberus, shep is blamed for everything.



He is blamed for working with cerberus, (what choice did we have? Literally none), he is blamed for being gone two years. (Dead, dead, and more dead. No control over being blasted into space), almost none of his friends are happy he has returned. (The only immediately happy person I can think of is wrex. Tali shows confusion for a few seconds, and then its like shep was never gone. Liara hugs/kisses you for a sec, and then is pretty much gone until the DLC.)



Shep gets cut no breaks at all in this game. I don't like it. Not because shep is suffering misfortune, but because it is not being handled well by the writers AT ALL. There is no insight into his death at all, no deep interaction with his crew and friends about him, its like he doesnt exist except to be yelled at for mildly justified reasons.

[PauseforEffect]

Their reaction made sense up to a certain point. With Ashley's personality, it wasn't surprising but Kaiden's....made me want to yell at him. Especially if he was a LI.

Going into a lengthy emotional spiel about how Shepard's death devastates you in one paragraph, then accusing her the next of being a traitor without any wonder as to what the hell is going on, just leaves a bad impression. If it hurt so much losing the love of your life, why are you walking away when she needs your help?! Did it not occur to them that might be the last time you see them after getting a second chance?!

Could have accepted them refusing because you can't just drop everything with all they have to take in. Could have understood if they said they have responsibilities, obligations to other people like Liara, Tali and Wrex explained. Cannot accept that self-righteous tone he gives when he accuses Shepard of turning her back on the Alliance. No confusion, no curiousity whatsoever?

The e-mail was the final insult. After the way he treats Shepard, he just throws in an apology e-mail and hopes to get back into a relationship just like that?

I know this is a biased opinion, but being raised in a family where you don't turn your back on loved ones is just appalling to witness that kind of treatment and expecting to cover your tail with a half-hearted gesture. If Shepard is doing something questionable, it would be all the more reason to keep a closer eye on him/her. Whether to verify if it really is Shepard, whether your commander is in trouble and cannot say it out loud or to stop him/her if they are truly doing something wrong.

[Lunatic LK47]

luakel wrote...k.

But the dialogue just killed it. No Ash, it wasn't that I didn't contact you because you'd moved on, it was because I was dead. And when I woke up a few weeks ago, my new boss didn't know where you were, and neither did Anderson. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned how nonchalant Shepard was about the VS not being taken by Collectors, I agree. I wanted to see Shepard get a big grin once s/he saw their old pal alive and well. Plus, my Shepard wasn't working with Cerberus for the good of the galaxy, he was working with them because he had no other choice. So it would've been nice if he could tell Ash that, tell her to try to get the Council's heads out of the sand, because as soon as they give Shepard something more than "you're a Spectre again, stay in the Terminus", he'll jump ship from Cerberus immediately. But no one else offered support, even Anderson never asked Shepard to come back to the Alliance. And I wish that could have been said, to show that Shepard's a person with feelings and frustrations and not just a "bloody icon." Oh well.

Ding ding ding. This is why I got pissed off with Horizon.

[Lunatic LK47]

PrimalEden wrote...

Their reaction made sense up to a certain point. With Ashley's personality, it wasn't surprising but Kaiden's....made me want to yell at him. Especially if he was a LI.
Going into a lengthy emotional spiel about how Shepard's death devastates you in one paragraph, then accusing her the next of being a traitor without any wonder as to what the hell is going on, just leaves a bad impression. If it hurt so much losing the love of your life, why are you walking away when she needs your help?! Did it not occur to them that might be the last time you see them after getting a second chance?!
Could have accepted them refusing because you can't just drop everything with all they have to take in. Could have understood if they said they have responsibilities, obligations to other people like Liara, Tali and Wrex explained. Cannot accept that self-righteous tone he gives when he accuses Shepard of turning her back on the Alliance. No confusion, no curiousity whatsoever?
The e-mail was the final insult. After the way he treats Shepard, he just throws in an apology e-mail and hopes to get back into a relationship just like that?
I know this is a biased opinion, but being raised in a family where you don't turn your back on loved ones is just appalling to witness that kind of treatment and expecting to cover your tail with a half-hearted gesture. If Shepard is doing something questionable, it would be all the more reason to keep a closer eye on him/her. Whether to verify if it really is Shepard, whether your commander is in trouble and cannot say it out loud or to stop him/her if they are truly doing something wrong.

Another winner here.

[Chignon]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Worst writing of the game.

BioWare knew many of us didn't want to work with Cerberus, and didn't want to be railroaded into it. So what do they so? Make sure Shepards boyfriend/girlfriend yells at Shepard and breaks up with him/her for it as well.

Funkcase wrote...

The VS were good on Horizon, great voice acting for Ash and Kaidan, and not bending over for Shepard.. The thing I hate about Horizion is Shepard. His damn responses, who's idea was it for that crap?

I hope in ME3 and possibly dlc that Bioware do Ash and Kaidan some justice, although im worried they will mess Ash up as Chris L'Etoile the one who wrote Ashleys character has left Bioware.

QFT

The concept of Horizon is good but it is executed so poorly that I dread it every time I play through ME2.

Modifié par Chignon, 06 décembre 2010 - 07:08 .

[Milana_Saros]

rma2110 wrote...

No, I agree completely. Kaiden or Ashley simply throwing themselves into Shepard's arm would have been unrealistic and not quite believable. They have been mourning a lost love for two years and struggling to move on, and suddenly BAM! Out of the blue comes Shepard who is working for the former enemy and hasn't bothered to contact them.

This.

It's Shepard's dialogue that utterly sucked. I rushed the first meeting and went auto-Paragon. Suddenly I was telling Kaidan how "I didn't want to open up old wounds", what the Hell? And why is that the Paragon answer? Because love is ultimately selfish?

With the right dialogue choices, it was tolerable but Joker's comments and later Liara's comments in the LotSB DLC were a bit negative. At least Kelly asks if you miss him and you actually get the chance to say that you do.

When Kaidan says he won't come along with you and starts walking away, it would've been nice to say "I understand. I hope you will trust me again some day..." instead of just hailing Joker and saying "I've had enough of this planet!".

I am aware that in the end Shepard is her own person, like someone said earlier in another thread. We can be Paragon or Renegade but in the end we won't be able to do whatever the hell we want. Still I like to look at my alter-ego Shep's and Kaidan's romance as something sweet, trustworthy and steady both having respect for one another. Then you get dialogue choises that indicate that you're annoyed at him or that you just broke up or something just because he was mad at you...With Joker and Liara, my FemShep simply doesn't go there and avoids the whole subject.

[Cyberfrog81]

I didn't care much for Ashley/Kaidan to begin with, and that scene didn't help. Ashley/Kaidan is not great, Shepard is worse.

Lord_Caledore wrote...

In any case, it's Cerberus. Given what the VS saw in ME1, they do some pretty sick experiments. And now they've brought Shepard back to life - and is there really any reason for the VS to believe that Cerberus couldn't have tampered with Shepard in some way. You know, like the control chip that WOULD have been implanted if Miranda had her way? If I were the VS, I wouldn't trust that Shep wasn't being controlled or manipulated in some way.

Fair enough. But maybe you would also have wanted to rescue Shepard from his/her puppet masters then? Maybe Ashley/Kaidan does, but it sure doesn't look that way - it's more like, "u r traitor I'm NOT lol, bye".

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 08 décembre 2010 - 08:43 .

[Rivercurse]

This is a pretty good topic, and I've never really thought about it that deeply (mainly because I never particularly cared too much for either possible VS). Thanks for the wider context OP. It makes more sense when you think about it like that.

Modifié par Rivercurse, 06 décembre 2010 - 07:59 .

[Iakus]

Lord_Caledore wrote...

^ I agree. The VS's reaction was understandable. Showing up after being believed dead for two years, and then suddenly working with Cerberus, is a rather extraordinary circumstance. I can understand how they'd react with anger and hurt. I'm also glad they didn't bend over backwards just because it's Shepard; I get tired of so many NPCs worshiping at Shep's feet, so it was refreshing to be challenged for once.

I have no problem with the VS not joining and not wanting to join Shepard.  It's perfectly reasonable that Shepard can't "get the band back together"

Nor do I have a problem with them being disapproving of Cerberus in general. 

What I have a problem with is the VS basically going "Cerberus?  Grr!  Argh!" and completely shutting down.  Given what they've been through, LI or not.  That makes no sense.  Remember, Shepard has a record of going through extraordinary measures to get the job done.  Even if they ultimately think Shepard's on the wrong track working for Cerberus, they'd have to understand that Something is Going On Here.

 Let me put it another way.  If during the course of ME 2, you hear reports that Tali has turned against the quarians and is now working for the geth.  Keep in mind this would be before anything about the Heretic Geth and True Geth comes to light.  Finally in a mission (let's say Haestrom) you see her actually fighting alongside the geth and she even says something about how they saved her life, or they aren't all bad,  would your first reaction be "Why would she turn on her own people?"  Or "Traitor!"?

In any case, it's Cerberus. Given what the VS saw in ME1, they do some pretty sick experiments. And now they've brought Shepard back to life - and is there really any reason for the VS to believe that Cerberus couldn't have tampered with Shepard in some way. You know, like the control chip that WOULD have been implanted if Miranda had her way? If I were the VS, I wouldn't trust that Shep wasn't being controlled or manipulated in some way.

Yeah, the VS saw some pretty sick things with Cerberus experiments in ME 1.  He/she also saw Shepard leading the charge against them.  The line about Cerberus somehow controlling Shepard is the only thing about the conversations that really made sense.  But it never gets pressed or followed up.  It just stays one line.  Sme as Shepard's death/coma/whatever.  Shep never gets to explain that part, The VS never gets to voice the concerns beyond, essentially "Grr, Argh!"

One thing I kinda wished was in LOTSB was a copy of the reports the Alliance had on Shepard working for TIM.  If they said things like "Shepard has reportedly been spotted performing vivisections on turians"  "Shepard released the prisoners of the prison ship Purgatory before destroying said ship and murdering the warden"  "Shepard reportedly used a stoned volus as a distraction while fighting an asari commando" or  "Shepard now requires a daily infusion of puppy blood and kitten tears to survive" this  might have made the reaction (slightly) more believable.

But Shep's lines were just bad. The "how've you been" line makes me cringe every time, particularly if the VS was romanced. And you just can't really explain your actions very well, so Shep comes off giving these lame excuses rather than a legit reason for working for Cerberus.

On this we agree. 100%

[skcih-deraj]

I thought it was ok, they had every right to be pissed at Shepard for being with Cerberus. They dont know the details surrounding Shepard's Cerberus affiliation so them being a little angry is fine.

The lines we got were just enough to make me scream at my T.V. for Shep saying "it's been a long time how have you been?"  So that didn't help the situation much.

Modifié par skcih-deraj, 06 décembre 2010 - 09:42 .

[Badpie]

I agreed wholeheartedly with Ash/Kaidan and thought their half of the dialogue was okay. Whoever was writing Shepard's lines failed miserably. MISERABLY.



I also think it would have been stupid for Ash or Kaidan, who have a life, responsibilities and duties to just shrug and join up with Shepard. Even if it had been a happy reunion it would have been stupid and unrealistic for them to join up with Shepard right then.

[fortunesque]

Badpie wrote...

I agreed wholeheartedly with Ash/Kaidan and thought their half of the dialogue was okay. Whoever was writing Shepard's lines failed miserably. MISERABLY.

I also think it would have been stupid for Ash or Kaidan, who have a life, responsibilities and duties to just shrug and join up with Shepard. Even if it had been a happy reunion it would have been stupid and unrealistic for them to join up with Shepard right then.

This.

Also, Cerberus is a terrorist organization. And if people remember what happened with Cerberus on the sidequests in ME1, they're not as "human-friendly" as they appear to be. They'll experiment on humans and abuse them just as much, if not more than aliens. 

[Siquayetsga]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Ash/Kaidan: "Why didn't you say anything? Why didn't you call?"
Shepard: "Because I got frickin' spaced, Cerberus did a Jesus on me, and I woke up a week ago to stop the colony attacks that have taken millions of people! And for all I know, Cerberus put a damn chip in me that if I get out of line, poof, off with my head! So tell me where all in that did I sell out the Alliance or have a chance to call you"

OK, I would have written this a little differently than Dyslexo did, but I had a similar reaction to the Horizon mission. I didn't mind the conflict with Kaishley (or is it Ashden?), but for pity's sake the writing for Shepard is weak on Horizon. Shepard should have been a lot more visibly glad to see Kaishley and correspondingly more upset at Kaishley's reaction. I found this doubly annoying since the writers got Shepard's dialog in the reunions with Garrus and Tali so much better. 

[achwas]

Nashiktal wrote...

To me the VS initial reaction is excused and expected. However after all shep has been through, after being in a coma for so long, after having bioware force shep to work with cerberus, shep is blamed for everything.

He is blamed for working with cerberus, (what choice did we have? Literally none), he is blamed for being gone two years. (Dead, dead, and more dead. No control over being blasted into space), almost none of his friends are happy he has returned. (The only immediately happy person I can think of is wrex. Tali shows confusion for a few seconds, and then its like shep was never gone. Liara hugs/kisses you for a sec, and then is pretty much gone until the DLC.)

Shep gets cut no breaks at all in this game. I don't like it. Not because shep is suffering misfortune, but because it is not being handled well by the writers AT ALL. There is no insight into his death at all, no deep interaction with his crew and friends about him, its like he doesnt exist except to be yelled at for mildly justified reasons.

Siquayetsga wrote...

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Ash/Kaidan: "Why didn't you say anything? Why didn't you call?"
Shepard:
"Because I got frickin' spaced, Cerberus did a Jesus on me, and I woke
up a week ago to stop the colony attacks that have taken millions of
people! And for all I know, Cerberus put a damn chip in me that if I get
out of line, poof, off with my head! So tell me where all in that did I
sell out the Alliance or have a chance to call you"

OK, I
would have written this a little differently than Dyslexo did, but I
had a similar reaction to the Horizon mission. I didn't mind the
conflict with Kaishley (or is it Ashden?),......................

Thanks, and here I felt like I was only one considering the VS' reaction rather over the top and unreasonable. Shepard's been in a ressurective-coma for 2 years - pretty hard to write an e-mail from that to keep the VS informed of what's happening. And  almost from the second Shepard is up and running, the VS is supposed to be out-of-communication as a covert operative of the alliance, making dropping them a call rather difficult as well.
VS : "you didn't call" ---> Shep : "well, get a freaking telephone first, will you ?" sums it up pretty well

And almost the first thing you get to listen to after saving half the colony's collective a**es, including the hapless VS, is an outraged "you didn't call and you didn't write ! (nevermind that you were actually dead and I didn't expect you to recover from that anyway....) ".... Not that I'd expect effusive eulogies and embraces, but a simple "thank you" might have been sort of a nice gesture there.....
No joy or relief by the VS that Shepard is actually alive either (and well) or inquiry into that ......seems like to the VS, people rise from the dead every other day, judging by how calmly they react to it,. The sole thing Shepard gets are  recriminations and admonishements about one's (until then rather) helpful allies.... Without even asking for Shep's take on things , or inquiring about the paradox of now aiding Cerberus !
As I usually take Mordin and garrus along there is hardly even any indication of Cerberus involvement to set them off in the first place. Yeah badly written/designed piece of dialogue there, a varaition in the dialogue for Garrus being present might have been nice or rather, it not being there is an obvious oversight.

For all I care, the VS can henceforth paint the inside of the SR-2's engines while they are at full throttle after the Horizon confrontation  - badly designed or not. My judgement is made upon implemented dialogue, not wishful imagination what might have been said instead. If I'd Go there, I would replace 80%+ of the ingame dialogue of Kaidan and Ash in ME-1 for starters.
Then again, I never was a fan of either Ashley or Kaiden in the first place after ME-1, so I din#T really look forward to meeting them in ME-2

The mission itself is nice and challenging the first few times around, didn't mind it much. I thoroughly enjoy the CPB, basically my heavy weapon of choice.

Modifié par achwas, 07 décembre 2010 - 12:10 .

[Chignon]

Badpie wrote...

I agreed wholeheartedly with Ash/Kaidan and thought their half of the dialogue was okay. Whoever was writing Shepard's lines failed miserably. MISERABLY.

I also think it would have been stupid for Ash or Kaidan, who have a life, responsibilities and duties to just shrug and join up with Shepard. Even if it had been a happy reunion it would have been stupid and unrealistic for them to join up with Shepard right then.

I couldn't have said it better, Badpie. Good post.

[Shenzi]

Badpie wrote...

I agreed wholeheartedly with Ash/Kaidan and thought their half of the dialogue was okay. Whoever was writing Shepard's lines failed miserably. MISERABLY.

I also think it would have been stupid for Ash or Kaidan, who have a life, responsibilities and duties to just shrug and join up with Shepard. Even if it had been a happy reunion it would have been stupid and unrealistic for them to join up with Shepard right then.

QFT

Horizon had the potential to be a really good  in theory but it came off as a cheesy plot device with the way it was executed.

[Lunatic LK47]

iakus wrote...

I have no problem with the VS not joining and not wanting to join
Shepard.  It's perfectly reasonable that Shepard can't "get the band
back together"

Nor do I have a problem with them being disapproving of Cerberus in general. 

What
I have a problem with is the VS basically going "Cerberus?  Grr! 
Argh!" and completely shutting down.  Given what they've been through,
LI or not.  That makes no sense.  Remember, Shepard has a record
of going through extraordinary measures to get the job done.  Even if
they ultimately think Shepard's on the wrong track working for Cerberus,
they'd have to understand that Something is Going On Here.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner here. To top it off, all this did was push the players into romancing the ME2 characters, and made it nothing more than a soap-opera cliche.

[mopotter]

hawat333 wrote...

I did actually like it, with the hostility of our (or former in some case)  love interest.
It was a human reaction which helped develop the character further.
It was also a believable human reaction as opposed to some that appears in the game.
It absolutely makes sense, if people care to think about the situation.

If it is criticized in every forum you encountered, that can be because of a shallow view of the situation, as if you take the facts in consideration, it's clear what causes the reaction. Especially if you combine it with human nature.
On the other hand, Shepard's lack of communitacion (oh come on, don't tell me he/she couldn't track is LI down with all the resources in his/her hand) is a poor implementation of character. But as a reaction to this, the LI's behaviour is not only human but more or less (less in fact  ) rightful.

I pretty much agree, but my first play through,  I did try to track down Kaidan.  He was the first thing I asked Jacob about and my first stop was to talk to Anderson.  He wouldn't tell me where Kaidan was and apparently, did not forward my concern.  Darn you Anderson. 

I actually liked the way Kaidan/Ash reacted on Horizon and I understood why they reacted as they did.  I also liked Kaidan's e-mail but really wanted to be able to respond to it somehow.  Like others, I'm putting a lot of hope in a DLC with the ability to work things out with Kaidan or Ash and I also hope BioWare has individual dialogue for them because they are (as others have mentioned) two different characters with different backgrounds and different history.  They deserve different dialog and actions.  

[Schneidend]

I liked Horizon just fine. Sorry, but not every relationship is going to be flowers and rainbows when Shepard is cooperating with an organization with the worst PR in the galaxy.

[Slayer299]

iakus wrote...

My problems with Horizon, which I consider to be the single worst scene in the entirety of the Mass Effect franchise (no, that's not hyperbole):

1) The VS's reaction should have been surprise, not anger.  Shepard was dead.  For two years.  Now he/she's alive.  And their response is essentially "Why didn't you call?"  That's only the first time I wanted to reach into the monitor and smack Ash/Kaiden.   Something more along the lines of "How is this possible?" or "What are you dong here?" Or even "I need to sit down for a minute"  Think Nassana Dantius when she sees Shepard.  Much more believable.  Like you said, rumors of Shep's survival would likely have been considered ludicrous, if not simply a sick joke.

2) After hearing Shepard was working with Cerberus, the only response seems to be variations of "Traitor!"  Really, Bioware?  This from the person who helped Shepard defy both the Council and Alliance, who helped Shepard commit mutiny two years before?  It never occurs to this individual, who by the way has had his/her life saved by Shepard on a minimum of two occasions (and who's most recent rescue also saved the better part of a colony) that maybe Shepard's doing what he/she's doing for a reason?  That maybe ten minutes of explanation may straighten everything out?  Particularly if Shepard is a) the Sole Survivor or did any of the Cerberus missions in ME 1 or c) acted alien-friendly in ME 1

3) VS has poor obseravional skills.  The Survivor notes if Garrus is there that he's joined Cerberus too.  Umm, Turian.  Human.  Human-centric organization.  Hmm, one of these things is not like the other...Wonder what happens if both Garrus and Mordin are therte?  How would they even know it was Cerberus at all of Shepard didn't open his mouth?

4)  Shepard's responses are complete idiocy.  Granted the VS is being less than helpful.  But Shep's responses made me want  to reach through the screen and smack him too.  I mean, get Joker or Chakwas on the line to explain if you have to, get a Normandy Reunion going!  At that moment, I momentarilly seriously wondered if Miranda lied about putting a chip in Shepard's head.

I'm not saying that the VS needed to swoon at the sight of Shepard, drop everything and join up.  Ash/Kaiden don't even have to approve of working with Cerberus.  But they really need to want to know what the frak is going on.  The Survivor shows remarkably little curiosity given recent events.

Oh, and they really, really need seperate personalities too.

This!

OP - I was going to write something with my views, but after reading Iakus' comment, that just perfectly summed up my feelings on Horizon and the VS.