417 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziggeh]

BrotherWarth wrote...
In this case it means they're trying to appeal to a larger auidience by simplifying gameplay elements and speed up development time by simplifying features and development processes.

Such as?

[upsettingshorts]

Everyone has a vested interest in DA:2 "not sucking" unless they rank justifying their ravings on a message board as more important than getting a game they enjoy.

Being right isn't as important as being diligent.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 décembre 2010 - 05:11 .

[Ziggeh]

BrotherWarth wrote...

The same couldn't be said of your "side"? You have just as much of a vested interest in DA2 NOT sucking as you're always one of the first to defend Bioware's every decision.

I get the distinct impression that most of us are pedants who cringe at bad arguments.

[crimzontearz]

monica for the last freaking time "streamlized" is NOT a word...streamlined is



now....with that out of the way, I'd like to say something about EA and cash cows.



The premise is that most of you know I DO take everything I am told here "****** grano salis" because I do work for a large for profit company who deals with the public....

but

Take Dead Space (yes I'm playing it a lot lately). Sleeper hit and great survival horror that makes the las iterations of RE look like cheap action games in almost every respect. the game came out in early 2008, the sequel is coming out in early 2011...

Almost three years when we all know that with the same engine being used they could have pushed it out in 18 months if they just wanted fast cash banking on how good the prequel was and they did not. Sillogistic arguments cannot be used in this frangent.

EA has its faults and it DID run more than one good studio into the ground but it is obvious that their MO is changing.

[In Exile]

BrotherWarth wrote...

The same couldn't be said of your "side"? You have just as much of a vested interest in DA2 NOT sucking as you're always one of the first to defend Bioware's every decision.

This might break your mind, so get ready for it, but it's totally possible that people like some features independent of whether or not they are Bioware features, and so are just pushing for stuff they like. Like the opposite of what you say you're doing.

[In Exile]

BrotherWarth wrote...
I don't follow your logic here. First you say I'm making a coherent argument in a discussion that's lacking in that regard, then you say my logic in insane.

What I said was that in that one post, what you said was reasonable. Everything else? Incoherent and not worth taking seriously. If you want to talk about, say, what the change in inventory means, we can. That's a reasonable conversation. If you want to say something like "The game is rushed, because if it was rushed, either Bioware would admit it was rushed, or deny it was rushed to scam us," then that's not worth talking seriously.

[upsettingshorts]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Such as giving companions static outfits so they don't have to make armor compatable with every race/gender. And making the skills/talents more Final Fantasy-like in design to appeal to a new audience.

The first feature you listed is a tradeoff, a controversial one to be sure, but there it is.  As far as the second point goes I dislike inferring - or explicitly stating - the developers' unspoken motives in arguments, it muddies the waters. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 décembre 2010 - 05:16 .

[Monica83]

If you strip an rpg from rpg elements you can call it rpg? for me mass effect its an rpg...

Mass effect 2 its a shoter with a story ...



Dragon age 2 its Mass infected.... So im just worry if i puchase dragon age 2 i will puchase an rpg? or a cinematic interactive adventure?... If im looking for an rpg i puchase an rpg...



To answer to Jhon:



Of course, the 'old fashioned way' was really to release the game and anything that wasn't in it would never see the light of day.







But I've had this argument many, many, many times, so I'm not going to flog this expired equine once more.





The old fashionst rpg... its what maked bioware a different company from others.. Just this..

[Fraevar]

Chris Priestly wrote...

WE.DO.NOT.RUSH.GAMES.

Awakening and Patch 1.03 belies that statement, Chris. We are STILL dealing with issues introduced through either 1.03 or Awakening.

[In Exile]

BrotherWarth wrote...
Such as giving companions static outfits so they don't have to make armor compatable with every race/gender. And making the skills/talents more Final Fantasy-like in design to appeal to a new audience.

You know what ? I take it back that you want to say something reasonable. I thought we were going to have a discussion on the relative merit of features, not speculating on motives for why Bioware is doing something. That's just a waste of everyone's time. The feature is what it is. Either you like or not, and we can talk about the relative merits, but saying why you think Bioware is doing it is a waste of our time because we could literally come up with hundreds of equally plausible explanations.

Modifié par In Exile, 07 décembre 2010 - 05:19 .

[Perfect-Kenshin]

JohnEpler wrote...

Of course, the 'old fashioned way' was really to release the game and anything that wasn't in it would never see the light of day.

But I've had this argument many, many, many times, so I'm not going to flog this expired equine once more.

You misunderstand me, Mr. Epler. I understand the benefits fully well. It's good that you have a means of releasing material that would never see the light of day while simaltaneously meeting development deadlines. In that regard, I commend the use of DLCs to make up for an otherwise incomplete game. It's just that being that other companies have taken advantage of consumers (i.e. Resident Evil 5 had its versus mode on the game disc from the start, passed it off as a DLC, which was ultimately nothing more than a download which unlocked the versus feature). Who is to say whether or not the DLC you have planned for DA2 could have easily been included in the game or that your deadline was solely  made to capatalize on the extra content not fully finished and therefore left out of the vanilla game?

You seem like a pretty decent guy, but your company (EA) is well known for these milking practices (the Sims 3 being a textbook example), thus you'll have to forgive me if deceit isn't something I put past the reasoning behind this game's rather early release date.

[In Exile]

BrotherWarth wrote...
This may blow your mind and rid you of your condesenscion but I was talking to one person specifically, about a small group of people, and not lumping all people who have any similarity in opinion with said group together.

You talked about "his" side, that has a vested interest in DA2 not sucking. I respond that "his" side might have no such thing; however large this group might be, they might all just defend each feature becuase they independently like that feature.

What I said was addressing specifically what you said about Dave of Canada and the people you consider similar to him, and only those people.

ETA: This is cleary not productive. I am not going to participate in this thread. Consider this a concession, or whatever. 

Modifié par In Exile, 07 décembre 2010 - 05:21 .

[Ziggeh]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Such as giving companions static outfits so they don't have to make armor compatable with every race/gender.

As 'pants said, that's a tradeoff. Plus, it's only visual. The outfits are modifiable, so we don't know if they're more complex or not.

BrotherWarth wrote...
And making the skills/talents more Final Fantasy-like in design to appeal to a new audience.

And that's a simplified feature?

[nightcobra]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Of course, the 'old fashioned way' was really to release the game and anything that wasn't in it would never see the light of day.

But I've had this argument many, many, many times, so I'm not going to flog this expired equine once more.

You misunderstand me, Mr. Epler. I understand the benefits fully well. It's good that you have a means of releasing material that would never see the light of day while simaltaneously meeting development deadlines. In that regard, I commend the use of DLCs to make up for an otherwise incomplete game. It's just that being that other companies have taken advantage of consumers (i.e. Resident Evil 5 had its versus mode on the game disc from the start, passed it off as a DLC, which was ultimately nothing more than a download which unlocked the versus feature). Who is to say whether or not the DLC you have planned for DA2 could have easily been included in the game or that your deadline was solely  made to capatalize on the extra content not fully finished and therefore left out of the vanilla game?

You seem like a pretty decent guy, but your company (EA) is well known for these milking practices (the Sims 3 being a textbook example), thus you'll have to forgive me if deceit isn't something I put past the reasoning behind this game's rather early release date.

seeing the DLC file's size is one simple way of knowing that

[Perfect-Kenshin]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Of course, the 'old fashioned way' was really to release the game and anything that wasn't in it would never see the light of day.

But I've had this argument many, many, many times, so I'm not going to flog this expired equine once more.

You misunderstand me, Mr. Epler. I understand the benefits fully well. It's good that you have a means of releasing material that would never see the light of day while simaltaneously meeting development deadlines. In that regard, I commend the use of DLCs to make up for an otherwise incomplete game. It's just that being that other companies have taken advantage of consumers (i.e. Resident Evil 5 had its versus mode on the game disc from the start, passed it off as a DLC, which was ultimately nothing more than a download which unlocked the versus feature). Who is to say whether or not the DLC you have planned for DA2 could have easily been included in the game or that your deadline was solely  made to capatalize on the extra content not fully finished and therefore left out of the vanilla game?

You seem like a pretty decent guy, but your company (EA) is well known for these milking practices (the Sims 3 being a textbook example), thus you'll have to forgive me if deceit isn't something I put past the reasoning behind this game's rather early release date.

seeing the DLC file's size is one simple way of knowing that

In cases like RE5? Yes. In cases like the Sims 3? No.

[Ziggeh]

Monica83 wrote...
The old fashionst rpg... its what maked bioware a different company from others.. Just this..

Haha, Bioware used to make old fashioned games, but they don't any more.

Marvelous.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 07 décembre 2010 - 05:26 .

[Ziggeh]

BrotherWarth wrote...
For me it isn't a tradeoff because I don't subscribe to the notion that a character's hat defines their personality.

Doesn't mean the trade wasn't made.

[nightcobra]

BrotherWarth wrote...

For me it isn't a tradeoff because I don't subscribe to the notion that a character's hat defines their personality.

there is more to it than that i think, another reason is that having static outfits or unique body models can also be advantageous when making their animations without the worrying of clipping issues and the like.

[upsettingshorts]

BrotherWarth wrote...

For me it isn't a tradeoff because I don't subscribe to the notion that a character's hat defines their personality.

"For you" is totally irrelevant in this context.  From a design standpoint - as in, "for them" it is a tradeoff.  I said it was controversial precisely to accomodate positions like yours.