417 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

ziggehunderslash wrote...
Haha, Bioware used to make old fashioned games, but they don't any more.

Marvelous.

I said I would leave this thread, but this is one comment that just bears expanding. Bioware has never arguably made traditional RPGs. When BG came out, the market had games like Icewind Dale that had a create-your-own party mechanic. Bioware immediately when to work to create a personal immersive story for the PC, and BGII just pushed that even further. NWN was envisioned as some kind of MMO RP precursor with no subscription fees, and by HoTU we got modern, story-driven and character-driven Bioware, where gameplay was a secondary concern.

That they followed this up with KoTOR, JE,  and ME prior to releasing DA:O that works nothing like an "old school" RPG just emphasizes the point.

[Monica83]

Anymore? so they are like others.... they are not....distinct... anymore

[nightcobra]

Monica83 wrote...

Anymore? so they are like others.... they are not....distinct... anymore

hardly, the way i see it bioware's strength wasn't in making traditional rpgs, if anything they always seemed to me that they strive to veer away from the norm. 

[Da_Lion_Man]

crimzontearz wrote...

Take Dead Space (yes I'm playing it a lot lately). Sleeper hit and great survival horror that makes the las iterations of RE look like cheap action games in almost every respect. the game came out in early 2008, the sequel is coming out in early 2011...

Incorrect. The game came out in October 2008. So it's a little more than 2 years, not almost 3 years.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Such as giving companions static outfits so they don't have to make armor compatable with every race/gender. And making the skills/talents more Final Fantasy-like in design to appeal to a new audience.

The first feature you listed is a tradeoff, a controversial one to be sure, but there it is.  As far as the second point goes I dislike inferring - or explicitly stating - the developers' unspoken motives in arguments, it muddies the waters. 

So whats the trade off? Stripping layers of customization for what? A unique look that essentially adds zero to the depth of the game? Oh joy!

C'mon Bioware keep these awesome design decisions coming, perhaps you can become mediocre overnight.

[upsettingshorts]

BrotherWarth wrote...

And I'm saying it isn't a tradeoff. For me. All we're talking about is in the context of what we as individuals want. If we just wanted to take every decision they made and go "well from a design standpoint that's perfectly logical so I'm fine with it" then what would be the point of a discussion forum?

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So whats the trade off? Stripping layers of customization for what? A unique look that essentially adds zero to the depth of the game? Oh joy!

Perfectly reasonable criticisms right up until the point you or anyone else claim it was motivated by a desire to pander or the result of laziness.

I won't begrudge anyone simply disagreeing with a design decision they don't like.  That's all it has to be.  No need to embellish the point with assumptions and insults.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 décembre 2010 - 05:30 .

[nightcobra]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So whats the trade off? Stripping layers of customization for what? A unique look that essentially adds zero to the depth of the game? Oh joy!

C'mon Bioware keep these awesome design decisions coming, perhaps you can become mediocre overnight.

i was wondering when you'd show up

[Atakuma]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So whats the trade off? Stripping layers of customization for what? A unique look that essentially adds zero to the depth of the game? Oh joy!

C'mon Bioware keep these awesome design decisions coming, perhaps you can become mediocre overnight.

Oh quit acting like bioware peed in your cheerios.

[Ziggeh]

In Exile wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...
Haha, Bioware used to make old fashioned games, but they don't any more.

Marvelous.

I said I would leave this thread, but this is one comment that just bears expanding. Bioware has never arguably made traditional RPGs. When BG came out, the market had games like Icewind Dale that had a create-your-own party mechanic. Bioware immediately when to work to create a personal immersive story for the PC, and BGII just pushed that even further. NWN was envisioned as some kind of MMO RP precursor with no subscription fees, and by HoTU we got modern, story-driven and character-driven Bioware, where gameplay was a secondary concern.

That they followed this up with KoTOR, JE,  and ME prior to releasing DA:O that works nothing like an "old school" RPG just emphasizes the point.

I should clarify, I was just rephrasing what Monica said  because I think it's a hilarious statement, essentially: "It used to be the past but it's not any more."

Personally I'm not a big fan of genre theory, so the statement doesn't work any way I look at it.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 07 décembre 2010 - 05:33 .

[upsettingshorts]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Why? You act as if those motivations aren't valid or totally understandable. It's not as if we're talking about saints. We're talking about a company that wants to sell their product to as many people as possible.

Because they cloud the issue and obscure the crux of the argument.  By definition that makes them invalid.  The pros and cons of a decision such as making companion appearance static are a valid topic for discussion which has the potential to provide useful feedback to any developers caring to read the argument, furthermore it leads to mutual understanding between players who are at odds with each other's playstyle. 

Such motivations you describe may or may not be true, but we have no way of knowing, they add nothing to the discussion while distracting from the issues that matter - the drawbacks and benefits of a particular decision - and come off as at best misguided and at worst petulant.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

And I'm saying it isn't a tradeoff. For me. All we're talking about is in the context of what we as individuals want. If we just wanted to take every decision they made and go "well from a design standpoint that's perfectly logical so I'm fine with it" then what would be the point of a discussion forum?

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So whats the trade off? Stripping layers of customization for what? A unique look that essentially adds zero to the depth of the game? Oh joy!

Perfectly reasonable criticisms right up until the point you or anyone else claim it was motivated by a desire to pander or the result of laziness.

I won't begrudge anyone simply disagreeing with a design decision they don't like.  That's all it has to be.  No need to embellish the point with assumptions and insults.

Did I even mention lazy in my post? No? Didn't think so. People tend to forget the reason Bioware is highly regarded as a developer is they have generally tended to go the extra mile when it comes to having options for a deeper investment in ones character or party via gear customization, dialog, impact on the world.

Now we get static companion outfits, a shorter game (for 10 dollars more on PC even) and a push towards making their titles more consolized to capture that part of the market.

God forbid some of the vet pc users take a bit of an offense to that method of development.

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Did I even mention lazy in my post? No? Didn't think so.

Just because I quoted your post doesn't mean it was the only one I was responding to.  

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

God forbid some of the vet pc users take a bit of an offense to that method of development.

I don't genuinely understand taking it so personally, myself.

[Monica83]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Such as giving companions static outfits so they don't have to make armor compatable with every race/gender. And making the skills/talents more Final Fantasy-like in design to appeal to a new audience.

The first feature you listed is a tradeoff, a controversial one to be sure, but there it is.  As far as the second point goes I dislike inferring - or explicitly stating - the developers' unspoken motives in arguments, it muddies the waters. 

So whats the trade off? Stripping layers of customization for what? A unique look that essentially adds zero to the depth of the game? Oh joy!

C'mon Bioware keep these awesome design decisions coming, perhaps you can become mediocre overnight.

Yes thats sad indeed... Someone call it evolution...  What a shame... Its seems all loves to semplify thing but why?.... Some old title stays masterpieces....

Titles like BG or BG2 title like icewind dale 2 saga..or planescape torment... Its sad when someone say.. gah im unable to play it the graphic looks old...... Well the graphic in a rpg its not the primary things.. What maded great that games was the awesome plot... the beautyfull sidequest... the deep companion... the variety of ambience worls full of informations about evrything.... In game was fun to find libraryes around and read learning evrything to the world of game.. But now it seems people prefear manga style combos... With schematic dialogues.. and shiny graphic... Also for the classes they prefear to have static but distinct one.... Gha... call this evolution...

[David Gaider]

Alright, sorry to barge in, but this doesn't even seem to be about Dragon Age anymore but more about RPG's in general -- and some nasty back and forth regarding personal preferences. I'm going to close down this thread. If you want to discuss the "state of RPG's" or "the state of BioWare" then take it to Off Topic. If you want to discuss Dragon Age specifically then please start another thread, but keep it relevant and civil. This is a warning.