417 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziggeh]

Harid wrote...

I would argue that the bashing isn't unreasonable, given how little information has been given to the general public this far along into the dev cycle, devs not answering clear questions, and devs obfuscating the truth.

Obfuscating? They're not always very clear, but they don't have any obligation to post here at all. They could remain entirely silent, that would be a far more effective policy, unless it's all a conspiracy and they're responding to maintain the illusion of response.

As to bashing, well, bashing can be cathartic I suppose, but it's the absence of reason I object to.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Harid wrote...

It is human nature to complain, and what we have been shown warrants complaint.  Do you go up to your local Fast Food restaurant and thank them for making your food so fast?  Do you go up to your movie theater clerk and tell him "hey, thanks for having floors that aren't sticky!  Thanks for not having bedbug infested chairs!"  No one does this.

You don't go up to your local fast food restaurant and complain about the crap burger BEFORE they made it.

[Harid]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Harid wrote...

It is human nature to complain, and what we have been shown warrants complaint.  Do you go up to your local Fast Food restaurant and thank them for making your food so fast?  Do you go up to your movie theater clerk and tell him "hey, thanks for having floors that aren't sticky!  Thanks for not having bedbug infested chairs!"  No one does this.

You don't go up to your local fast food restaurant and complain about the crap burger BEFORE they made it.

People did this when KFC debuted the Double Down.  So, you are wrong.

And if you have ever worked in Food Service, people do actually do this.

Modifié par Harid, 07 décembre 2010 - 02:55 .

[Big Blue Car]

But do complain if they don't spend enough time cooking it, rushing things just makes people ill

[Bullets McDeath]

halO bendeR wrote...

outlaworacle wrote...

Assuming he's not just using varying grades of sarcasm, he can still hold that opinion but not mean that the devs SHOULD come post in this thread. I reached the same conclusion when I read it, though.

Alright, just to make my point clear once and for all: The developers presumably CHOOSE what posts they comment in, correct? The fact that they CHOOSE NOT to comment on issues pertaining to the development time of DA2 leads me to believe that SOME of the things people have said about development time ring true for them.
I didn't mean to put my lot in with the 'Dragon Age 2 is going to suck' crowd by making the comment I made. Nor was it my intent to call out the developers to post on this thread.

I could be wrong, I've never worked on a video game before. I do hear horror stories however about video game professionals pulling 18 hour days in order to meet some of the high demands that publishers put on them. All I'm saying, is I hope that's not the case here. Bioware when independent was considered one of 'Alberta's top employers'; I'm still hoping that rings true.

I get what you're saying, I really do. But my point was they are OBVIOUSLY not going to come in here and say "yes, we rushed it". Which means all they can say is "no", and list reasons, which people will then question the validity of, or just outright accuse them of lying to cover up EA's supposed horrendous influence. My personal opinion is that this thread will not get a dev response because it is simply a lose-lose scenario for them.

Of course, now that I've said that, Gaider should be along any minute So if he does, you know who to thank.

Really it is the same as "Is Bioware Dumbing The Game Down For Console Kiddies?", it's a somewhat baseless accusation (I say "somewhat baseless" because I can at least see the train of thought for that question, and the question of this thread as well) that they really, really, really are obligated in no way to answer.

[Leonia]

I don't really see anything worth complaining about yet, honestly. The game isn't out yet, we can't evaluate or judge it properly.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Harid wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Harid wrote...

It is human nature to complain, and what we have been shown warrants complaint.  Do you go up to your local Fast Food restaurant and thank them for making your food so fast?  Do you go up to your movie theater clerk and tell him "hey, thanks for having floors that aren't sticky!  Thanks for not having bedbug infested chairs!"  No one does this.

You don't go up to your local fast food restaurant and complain about the crap burger BEFORE they made it.

People did this when KFC debuted the Double Down.  So, you are wrong.

Are you saying you go up to your local fast food restaurant and complain about the crap burger BEFORE they made it?

[Ziggeh]

Harid wrote...

Does blind reverence do anything better?

No, but "something else is just as bad" isn't really a reason for anything.

Harid wrote...
But you sure as hell will complain if the sound cuts in your movie or if your fries are soggy.  That's what people do, it's an intrinsic part of being human, as you are doing when you complain about the complainers.

If my fries are soggy, I will complain (though I probably wouldn't complain about the fries as I'm terribly english), but I wouldn't start harranging the vendor about them being soggy before the chips had been cooked and despite the fact that they have a track record of non soggy fries.

[Harid]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Harid wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Harid wrote...

It is human nature to complain, and what we have been shown warrants complaint.  Do you go up to your local Fast Food restaurant and thank them for making your food so fast?  Do you go up to your movie theater clerk and tell him "hey, thanks for having floors that aren't sticky!  Thanks for not having bedbug infested chairs!"  No one does this.

You don't go up to your local fast food restaurant and complain about the crap burger BEFORE they made it.

People did this when KFC debuted the Double Down.  So, you are wrong.

Are you saying you go up to your local fast food restaurant and complain about the crap burger BEFORE they made it?

I said people do it.  Heck, you are doing it right now.

[Ziggeh]

Harid wrote...
People did this when KFC debuted the Double Down.  So, you are wrong.

And if you have ever worked in Food Service, people do actually do this.

And what is your opinion of these people?

[Wissenschaft]

" We just learned that helmets will be an on-off toggle (maybe, Mike made no promises). Good good.

But the game is 3-4 months from release, and maybe even sooner."


Actually, the hiding of helmets is such a minor feature that I'd expect it to be one of the last to be implemented. So right about now, when the game is about to come out in a few months (and I expect most of the major elements of the game are already done), seem the right time to be considering adding a helmet hiding feature.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 07 décembre 2010 - 03:00 .

[Harid]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Harid wrote...
People did this when KFC debuted the Double Down.  So, you are wrong.

And if you have ever worked in Food Service, people do actually do this.

And what is your opinion of these people?

Much like Bioware, i find it funny because these people tend to buy the product anyway.

Doesn't make their complaints any less right or wrong by virtue, though.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Harid wrote...

I said people do it.  Heck, you are doing it right now.

What I'm doing is calling you out on your logical fallacy. You say I'm wrong. Then I'm suggesting otherwise and you cannot confirm. Do you or do you not? And if you want to throw the unreasonable KFC customers in the mix, let me put it this way: Do you share their lack of common sense or do you not?

[PARAGON87]

I don't think so.  I think that they're just preparing themselves for the big reveal at the VGAs, then they'll start releasing some DA2 content.

And they hopefully should start the marketing deluge soon, there is some amazing competition coming out around the same time as DA2.

[Harid]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Harid wrote...

I said people do it.  Heck, you are doing it right now.

What I'm doing is calling you out on your logical fallacy. You say I'm wrong. Then I'm suggesting otherwise and you cannot confirm. Do you or do you not? And if you want to throw the unreasonable KFC customers in the mix, let me put it this way: Do you share their lack of common sense or do you not?

I don't consider it a lack of common sense.  Sometimes complaints lead to positive change.  Companies, and people, **** up via not listening to detractors, in my opinion.  There is a balance, in my opinion, but no dev should ignore their fanbase completely, or the opposite.

Look at Cole Mcgrath from Infamous 2.  They changed the character so far from what he was in the first game, fans complained, they made him look closer to the original model.   Positive change.  I'm pretty sure that is precisely what the complainers want when they make their complaints.  Heck, whiners got the helmet toggle in this game, which works out fine because Bioware can't model a helmet to save their lives.

Modifié par Harid, 07 décembre 2010 - 03:07 .

[Ziggeh]

PARAGON87 wrote...

I don't think so.  I think that they're just preparing themselves for the big reveal at the VGAs, then they'll start releasing some DA2 content.

Good point. Marketing is a complex beast and basing our opinions on the marketing of other games in other environments is pretty flawed.

[Ziggeh]

Harid wrote...

Look at Cole Mcgrath from Infamous 2.  They changed the character so far from what he was in the first game, fans complained, they made him look closer to the original model.   Positive change.  I'm pretty sure that is precisely what the complainers want when they make their complaints.

I wouldn't call that bashing, that seems like an entirely reasonable request. I'm sure it was put in unreasonable ways, but still.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Harid wrote...

I don't consider it a lack of common sense.  Sometimes complaints lead to positive change.

Look at Cole Mcgrath from Infamous 2.  They changed the character so far from what he was in the first game, fans complained, they made him look closer to the original model.   Positive change.  I'm pretty sure that is precisely what the complainers want when they make their complaints.

Indeed complaints have that potential. But complaining about a product *before* the release of any demonstrative material, let alone the product itself, is a complete waste of time.

When I say "You don't go out and kill people whenever you had a fit", do all those news about sick bastards we read on the third page prove me wrong? The very same situation here. You don't go to your fast food restaurant and start complaining *before* they made the burger. If you do, it's nothing but lack of common sense. Sure you can go bug the cook while he's all sweating in front of the grill all you want, but I wouldn't argue that it'd be a constructive move.

[Leonia]

All this burger talk is making me hungry.

[Harid]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Harid wrote...

I don't consider it a lack of common sense.  Sometimes complaints lead to positive change.

Look at Cole Mcgrath from Infamous 2.  They changed the character so far from what he was in the first game, fans complained, they made him look closer to the original model.   Positive change.  I'm pretty sure that is precisely what the complainers want when they make their complaints.

Indeed complaints have that potential. But complaining about a product *before* the release of any demonstrative material, let alone the product itself, is a complete waste of time.

I just gave you an example where complaining prior to a game release lead to a positive change for the complainers, and you just. . .went into your circular argument again.  I'm done with you.

[Bryy_Miller]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Harid wrote...

Look at Cole Mcgrath from Infamous 2.  They changed the character so far from what he was in the first game, fans complained, they made him look closer to the original model.   Positive change.  I'm pretty sure that is precisely what the complainers want when they make their complaints.

I wouldn't call that bashing, that seems like an entirely reasonable request. I'm sure it was put in unreasonable ways, but still.

To add: There's a difference between asking for a simple character redesign and asking for the devs to change vital features of the game (and people have been asking for that, they always do). 

[Ortaya Alevli]

Harid wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Harid wrote...

I don't consider it a lack of common sense.  Sometimes complaints lead to positive change.

Look at Cole Mcgrath from Infamous 2.  They changed the character so far from what he was in the first game, fans complained, they made him look closer to the original model.   Positive change.  I'm pretty sure that is precisely what the complainers want when they make their complaints.

Indeed complaints have that potential. But complaining about a product *before* the release of any demonstrative material, let alone the product itself, is a complete waste of time.

I just gave you an example where complaining prior to a game release lead to a positive change for the complainers, and you just. . .went into your circular argument again.  I'm done with you.

Right, because fans complained about Cole *before* they knew the character was changed.

Have a nice day, then.

[Harid]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Harid wrote...

Look at Cole Mcgrath from Infamous 2.  They changed the character so far from what he was in the first game, fans complained, they made him look closer to the original model.   Positive change.  I'm pretty sure that is precisely what the complainers want when they make their complaints.

I wouldn't call that bashing, that seems like an entirely reasonable request. I'm sure it was put in unreasonable ways, but still.

To add: There's a difference between asking for a simple character redesign and asking for the devs to change vital features of the game (and people have been asking for that, they always do). 

Strawman arguments are awesome.  Prop some more up please.

[Ziggeh]

Harid wrote...

I just gave you an example where complaining prior to a game release lead to a positive change for the complainers, and you just. . .went into your circular argument again.  I'm done with you.

But a reasonable one, based on evidence. If they'd starting complaining about him being changed prior to being shown any changes, they would be analogous.

[Leonia]

Harid wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Harid wrote...

I don't consider it a lack of common sense.  Sometimes complaints lead to positive change.

Look at Cole Mcgrath from Infamous 2.  They changed the character so far from what he was in the first game, fans complained, they made him look closer to the original model.   Positive change.  I'm pretty sure that is precisely what the complainers want when they make their complaints.

Indeed complaints have that potential. But complaining about a product *before* the release of any demonstrative material, let alone the product itself, is a complete waste of time.

I just gave you an example where complaining prior to a game release lead to a positive change for the complainers, and you just. . .went into your circular argument again.  I'm done with you.

So.. moral of the story: It's ok to complain because you MIGHT get what you want.

Good to know, I'll continue to be an arse in the hopes of getting my way at some point. Because the world does revolve around me after all. My complaints are totally valid.

Now please explain to me how complaining about the possibility that DA 2 has been rushed through development will have a positive effect on the game and on the players who are making such a complaint? I can't wait to hear what you come up with.

Modifié par leonia42, 07 décembre 2010 - 03:16 .