86 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Water God wrote...
That face just screams "I'm laughing my ass off on the inside."

Really?

Huh, why am I seeing it differently? hmmm...

[Sarah1281]

I don't see what's so dangerous about trying to understand Rendon Howe. I really don't think that anyone is going to come to the conclusion that Howe's feelings of inferiority towards the Couslands meant that he was right to kill them and no matter what happened at Highever, that doesn't make his other actions okay. Understanding who he is and why he did what he did is not going to make it okay or make us think that it was okay.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Knowledge is always dangerous. Pointing this out to me does not, in the slightest, decrease my desire to analyse and understand (in fact, it may just have the opposite effect and may want me to study it even more, it happened in the past).

It was not an attempt by me to engender any sympathy. And by "tragic", I meant the irony of his actions and what they resulted in. I said in another post that the tragedy he inflicted on others is much greater. And this is feeling is a personal one that I am not interested in spreading at all (unlike my sentiments towards Loghain). I agree, he is pathetic in many ways.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 décembre 2010 - 05:22 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Glaucon wrote...
My concern is that, as with anything, misinterpretation will lead to a distorted analysis of Howe.

If such a thing happens, I'd be sure to clarify my own interpretation, and argue against any interpretation that I disagree with (which granted, will be simple analyses for the most part).

[KnightofPhoenix]

Glaucon wrote...

@KoP

Sure, I get that impression from you and admire it. Perhaps I am guilty of forgetting that. So please accept my apology if you feel that I have in any way underrated you.

No no, don't worry about it. You haven't and no apology is needed

[CalJones]

I'd agree with most of KoP's analysis. Howe does have a heroic side - he is not afraid to risk himself in battle and we know him to have been a war hero. The flipside of that is that he has a huge sense of entitlement. He is not content with having redeemed his family name during the war - he sees himself as at least the equal of Bryce Cousland, yet has to remain as vassal to him, and he has also seen a lowly commoner raised up and made a teyrn.

It's quite likely, actually, that Howe is a psychopath, in the clinical sense. He displays a lack of empathy towards anyone (including his own family) and feels no guilt, as far as we can see. This, coupled with an overinflated opinion of himself (narcissism) points towards psychopathy, or antisocial personality disorder as it is now termed.

[Addai]

(husband)
In skimming your lengthy critique you it appears that you have left out one of the most important clues to his character, that he looks like a rat.   And thus I submit that he is Dastardly Whiplash, albeit it looks like in keeping with Rorschach Inkblot nature of the rest of the game the game designers tried to deepen the character with the Orlai / treason angle to possible make an alternative character interpretation somewhat possible.


tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DastardlyWhiplash

Modifié par Addai67, 07 décembre 2010 - 08:58 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I re-examined it right now. Maybe not sadness, but it looks to me like he hesitated. That he was startled by your concern. And the way he avoids your gaze. I don't know. I definately saw something other than trying not to laugh. Only my interpretation anyhow.

EDIT:


If you focus on his mouth, you might see some smirk (I saw it as an awkward smile).
But his eyes, I think, tell a different story.

Then again, he could be acting.

Yes, this was something that stood out to me as well. hesistating or startled, because he was thinking about his plotting, and suddenly, a well wish from one of his potential victims. I can see a bit of reluctance to answer.

But in general, I agree with your synopsis on Howe. He is driven by personal ambition and greed primarily, but he does have secondary motives as well, for family and Ferelden. I realized this more when playing Awakenings and talking to Nathaniel, as well as the letters to and from Howe you find in the basement.

He is a very well written villian, because even though, unlike Loghain, he is a villian in the purest sense, he is a very three dimensional one who does what he does for reasons more than "I do it fo da rawrz! lol!"

[Gowienczyk]

I always present Howe as the actual villain behind the story of Dragon Age: Origins, a pure villain (although the characterization this thread suggests I wouldn't disagree with) in essence. Additionally I come to assume through my idea of Howe and what I've come to realize about Loghain is that every ill notion on Loghain's part (or most of them) come from Howe pulling strings per ce. Howe's strongest trait to me always suggested manipulation based around his devious, weasel-esque characterization.

Modifié par Gowienczyk, 07 décembre 2010 - 01:49 .

[Ulicus]

Wonderful thread.

Though, as a quick aside, I doubt Tarlteton Howe was Rendon's father, despite what the history books say.  Nate claims his grandfather (also a Howe -- Padrig? Patrick?) was a Grey Warden recruit, after all. And since Rendon married someone from outside the Howe family, it would seem to rule out his maternal grandfather.

Seems more likely to me that Tarleton took Rendon as his own son, or claimed he was, once Pat. Howe abandoned the family. But who knows?

Rendon as Tarleton's grandson also seems supported by the fact Arl Byron Howe, presumably the successor to Arl Tarleton Howe, was Nate's "great-uncle".

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Now if I understand correctly, the Howes became vassals to the Couslands from before (or is it after the rebellion?).

The Howes are the vassals of the ruling Cousland family both before and after the Orlesian occupation. If we can take the human noble at their word, anyway -- but Aldous doesn't correct him/her.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Highever was once a vassal of Amaranthine and the Howes. The Couslands fought a war of independence and defeated them.  So there might be an element of revisionism / very old grudge at play here.

Highever was a Bannorn of Amaranthine, yes, though -- unless I'm misremembering -- we don't know for certain Amaranthine was ruled by the Howes at the time. I remember Bann Conobar Elstan is referred to as a "cousin" of the Howes, but they may have been a less prestigious family at the time, and subservient to a greater house. Or, since later codex entries imply they can only trace their lineage back to the time of Calenhad, it may be that the Howes were a newer family who claimed blood ties with the (fallen?) house of Elstan.

Still, the assumption that the Howes were top dogs in Amaranthine back then isn't unreasonable, it's just not (again, unless I'm forgetting something) certain.

[Sarah1281]

Though, as a quick aside, I doubt Tarlteton Howe was Rendon's father, despite what the history books say. Nate claims his grandfather (also a Howe -- Padrig? Patrick?) was a Grey Warden recruit, after all. And since Rendon married someone from outside the Howe family, it would seem to rule out his maternal grandfather.



Seems more likely to me that Tarleton took Rendon as his own son, or claimed he was, once Pat. Howe abandoned the family. But who knows?



Rendon as Tarleton's grandson also seems supported by the fact Arl Byron Howe, presumably the successor to Arl Tarleton Howe, was Nate's "great-uncle".

The tutor in the HN origin tells you that Tarleton Howe was nearly ninety when they hung him which does make it seem like Rendon was his grandson. I'm not sure how Byron would fit into it, though, since Rendon took the Arling after the rebellion. Maybe after Padric Howe left Byron inherited the Arling but he died so Tarleton took it back over and after his death Rendon took it?

[Annie_Dear]

Hanz54321 wrote...

I've played this scene many times.  The tone of his voice, the hesitation . . . it's guilt.  That's right . . . I said it . . . guilt.  Not much guilt, but just a touch as he realizes the HNWarden actually gives a crap and they could've been friends.

Just like when he admits that the HNWarden made something of himself.  There's enough inside of Howe to know right from wrong . . . but he's gonna do wrong and those small token hesitation are all he's going to give anyone.

Interesting theory. However, I don't believe that. I mean, all the things he says when you confront him in Denerim?

"I thought Loghain made it clear that your pathetic family is gone and forgotten!"

"Your parents died on their knees. Your brother's corpse rots in Ostagar; and his brat was burned on a scarp heap, along with his Antivan **** of a wife. And what's left? A fool husk of a son/daughter likely to end his/her days under a rock in the Deep Roads. Even the Wardens are gone. You are the last of nothing. This is pointless... You've lost."

"I made your mother kiss my feet before she died, it was the last thing your father saw. Meet my sword, and change that."

I honestly can't imagine him feeling guilty for what he did

Modifié par Annie_Dear, 07 décembre 2010 - 07:06 .