162 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

Piecake wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...
Friendly fire should be a toggle for all difficulty levels. I hope BioWare makes it so by release. /ninja post

I think that should be the motto for the board

"When in doubt, toggle"

I just started NWN 2 a couple days ago (for the first time) and I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the toggles.

I love it, though, and I'm having half my fun with the game just trying them out to see which I like best.

This, of course, is ruining me for games going forward.

[Unknown Username]

While I find the insistence on toggles on this board very odd, I do agree that Friendly Fire could work and definitely would be nice to have as a toggle -- at least on easier difficulties. Perhaps you could toggle whether or not friendly fire would occur up until hard or nightmare, where it was always on.

[Piecake]

filaminstrel wrote...

Hm, I hadn't thought of that, yeah that would be a bit annoying. Though you can kind of "peek" through a door using the over-the-shoulder camera, a bit. And I seem to remember one of the devs mentioning expanded party controls for telling someone to attack X enemy without actually possessing them, kind of like in Mass Effect, but don't quote me on that.

That's good news to me if its true since its pretty similar to my suggestion on how to fix that issue(among other unforseeable ones).

I do see a possible solution to my example though that might work.  Just
have it that you don't automatically switch camera views when you
select a different companion.  For example, in the example above if you
are able to retain the camera view of your companion while being able to
bring up Hawke's abilities/movements then that would help a lot I
think. 

I'm sure some sort of button would be involved, and I am
not sure what is less annoying: pressing a button to stop the camera
from moving to another companion or pressing a button to switch camera
angles.  The first one does sound more feasable/less annoying

Plus, I think I would just get annoyed by the camera constantly switching to different perspectives when I'm flipping through my characters.  I'd imagine we could make a game out of it.  How long can you flip through all of your characters before you induce a seizure.

Modifié par Piecake, 07 décembre 2010 - 10:33 .

[PsychoBlonde]

JohnEpler wrote...

As far as I'm aware (in that I asked someone who knows and they said 'this is true and feel free to tell the forums' then showed me the camera in question), the camera can still rotate vertically. I'm not sure to what degree, but it's a fairly decent amount of pitch.

Personally, in a choice between the weird rooms-floating-in-a-void of NwN (which had a spectacular degree of camera freedom) and well, having the camera attached to the selected character, I'm fine with the attached camera.  I didn't like the sudden dramatic switch between follow-cam and chessboard-cam in Origins anyhoo.

I still wish you could put abilities from ALL of your characters on a SINGLE quickbar, so you could order Isabela to execute her special without having to SWITCH to Isabela.  That would have a lot more fun tactical feel to ME.

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 07 décembre 2010 - 10:44 .

[In Exile]

Unknown Username wrote...

While I find the insistence on toggles on this board very odd, I do agree that Friendly Fire could work and definitely would be nice to have as a toggle -- at least on easier difficulties. Perhaps you could toggle whether or not friendly fire would occur up until hard or nightmare, where it was always on.

FF is not an easy toggle at all. It dramatically changes difficutly because enemy statistics might be scaled to no FF. Adding a toggle for FF might screw-up the difficutly and make a hard balanced for no FF harder than a nightmare balanced for FF.

[MadLaughter]

I am disappointed that the camera is attached to the currently selected character. This definitely takes away an important tangible chunk of the tactical aspect of combat which I enjoyed in DA:O. It seems as if it will make it much more difficult to send characters to different spots on the battlefield, especially with zooming out also becoming much more limited.

[Piecake]

In Exile wrote...

Unknown Username wrote...

While I find the insistence on toggles on this board very odd, I do agree that Friendly Fire could work and definitely would be nice to have as a toggle -- at least on easier difficulties. Perhaps you could toggle whether or not friendly fire would occur up until hard or nightmare, where it was always on.

FF is not an easy toggle at all. It dramatically changes difficutly because enemy statistics might be scaled to no FF. Adding a toggle for FF might screw-up the difficutly and make a hard balanced for no FF harder than a nightmare balanced for FF.

They could just say:

"Turning FF on will make your game a lot harder.  Some fights you wont notice it, but others youll be taking it up the butt so hard youll be begging for mercy"

I'd imagine that some would still take that toggle:P

On a side note, does anyone else get an strange desire to say "Toggle, toggle!" everytime you read toggle?  Ive think ive written toggle so much that toggle has lost all meaning as well.  Toggle

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

In Exile wrote...

Unknown Username wrote...

While I find the insistence on toggles on this board very odd, I do agree that Friendly Fire could work and definitely would be nice to have as a toggle -- at least on easier difficulties. Perhaps you could toggle whether or not friendly fire would occur up until hard or nightmare, where it was always on.

FF is not an easy toggle at all. It dramatically changes difficutly because enemy statistics might be scaled to no FF. Adding a toggle for FF might screw-up the difficutly and make a hard balanced for no FF harder than a nightmare balanced for FF.

Yet this was never an issue before with the D&D  games. Now its all of a sudden a nightmare to balance. Go fig. Toggles are a good thing, more options is a good thing, it'd be great if Bioware would move back in that direction, rather than lets streamline the **** outta everything for the hell of it.

[In Exile]

Piecake wrote...
They could just say:

"Turning FF on will make your game a lot harder.  Some fights you wont notice it, but others youll be taking it up the butt so hard youll be begging for mercy"

But they would have to playtest that. Basically, adding an FF toggle means making sure you can rank order difficulties with and without FF, and actually have FF on/off alter statistics of enemies so that the same relative difficulty (nightmare >hard >normal >easy) is kept both times.

I was just pointing out why  a toggle makes developers want to kill themselves. Because it introduces a ton of work.

On a side note, does anyone else get an strange desire to say "Toggle, toggle!" everytime you read toggle?  Ive think ive written toggle so much that toggle has lost all meaning as well.  Toggle

Yes. That happens to me a lot.

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Yet this was never an issue before with the D&D  games. Now its all of a sudden a nightmare to balance. Go fig. Toggles are a good thing, more options is a good thing, it'd be great if Bioware would move back in that direction, rather than lets streamline the **** outta everything for the hell of it.

I don't know what you're talking about. An FF toggle is always hard to implement. I'm not saying whether Bioware should do it or not; I'm just saying it isn't "easy" to do it, which is what the original post said.

Toggles are a lot of work, and frankly investing in one feature to give 10 options of it isn't as good (IMO) as creating three separate features. I'd rather have a set decision on FF and an extra fully developed quest than an FF toggle.

It always comes down to opportunity cost.

ETA:

I also don't know what games you're talking about. In BGII FF was disabled for easy but was on for other difficulties. There was no toggle.

Modifié par In Exile, 07 décembre 2010 - 11:07 .

[Tsuga C]

Friendly fire should be keyed to the difficulty settings.

Hard, Nightmare = FF on. Normal, Easy = FF off. Simple and straightforward.

As for the lack of an isometric camera, this is very disappointing for those who utilize archers.  If you want to pull back far enough for a truly commanding view of the battlefield, I suppose you'll have to wait for some sort of patch or hack.

*big raspberry at the decision maker or the one who forced the decision makers hand because of foolishly imposed time constraints*  

Modifié par Tsuga C, 07 décembre 2010 - 11:18 .

[DPB]

In Exile wrote...

I also don't know what games you're talking about. In BGII FF was disabled for easy but was on for other difficulties. There was no toggle.

Yep, the same for NWN, except it was only on D&D hardcore and very difficult. Like you said, adding a toggle for friendly fire isn't the same as having it tied to certain difficulty settings, it's the equivalent of adding an extra four difficulty settings.

[Piecake]

Tsuga C wrote...

Friendly fire should be keyed to the difficulty settings.

Hard, Nightmare = FF on. Normal, Easy = FF off. Simple and straightforward.

I'd agree with that

[Xewaka]

Piecake wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

Friendly fire should be keyed to the difficulty settings.

Hard, Nightmare = FF on. Normal, Easy = FF off. Simple and straightforward.

I'd agree with that

I'd have to dig up the reference, but that's the way they were doing it. Unless time constraints got in the way.

[crimzontearz]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Unknown Username wrote...

While I find the insistence on toggles on this board very odd, I do agree that Friendly Fire could work and definitely would be nice to have as a toggle -- at least on easier difficulties. Perhaps you could toggle whether or not friendly fire would occur up until hard or nightmare, where it was always on.

FF is not an easy toggle at all. It dramatically changes difficutly because enemy statistics might be scaled to no FF. Adding a toggle for FF might screw-up the difficutly and make a hard balanced for no FF harder than a nightmare balanced for FF.

Yet this was never an issue before with the D&D  games. Now its all of a sudden a nightmare to balance. Go fig. Toggles are a good thing, more options is a good thing, it'd be great if Bioware would move back in that direction, rather than lets streamline the **** outta everything for the hell of it.

streamlining is good oftentimes, point is Sarah, and I have proven this to you before, you are beginning to complain for the sake of complaining, shall we start that argument again? because we know how it's going to end.....

Modifié par crimzontearz, 07 décembre 2010 - 11:18 .

[Piecake]

In Exile wrote...

But they would have to playtest that. Basically, adding an FF toggle means making sure you can rank order difficulties with and without FF, and actually have FF on/off alter statistics of enemies so that the same relative difficulty (nightmare >hard >normal >easy) is kept both times.

I was just pointing out why  a toggle makes developers want to kill themselves. Because it introduces a ton of work

My post was more of a joke since I advocated just sticking in a toggle and leaving it at that.  No testing, no balancing, no nothing.  one battle is easy, the next is butt-hurtingly difficult, the next is pretty hard, the one after that is a joke, and the next one is simply impossible.  The game difficulty will be so mysterious and random that even the developers wont know!

[Xewaka]

crimzontearz wrote...

streamlining is good oftentimes, point is Sarah, and I have proven this to you before, you are beginning to complain for the sake of complaining, shall we start that argument again? because we know how it's going to end.....

Yet sometimes streamlining comes at the cost of removing features which where experience enhancers for the player. If development keep their word an tie Friendly Fire to Nightmare difficulty, that'd be fine by me. I'd still play on regular the first time to get a hang of the system, then all subsequent runs would be on nightmare. A discriminating Fireball is not a Fireball at all.

Iso camera will still be missed. I can understand the reasoning behind removing it, even if I don't agree with it, as the game loses some appeal to me because of his abscence.

Modifié par Xewaka, 07 décembre 2010 - 11:24 .

[Piecake]

Xewaka wrote...

Piecake wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

Friendly fire should be keyed to the difficulty settings.

Hard, Nightmare = FF on. Normal, Easy = FF off. Simple and straightforward.

I'd agree with that

I'd have to dig up the reference, but that's the way they were doing it. Unless time constraints got in the way.

Well, other posters are saying that FF is only included for Nightmare, so i was just going off on that and agreeing that FF should be in hard mode as well.

[Xewaka]

Piecake wrote...

Well, other posters are saying that FF is only included for Nightmare, so i was just going off on that and agreeing that FF should be in hard mode as well.

You're right, it's on nightmare only. I misread the post. Apologies.

[Brockololly]

Piecake wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

Friendly fire should be keyed to the difficulty settings.

Hard, Nightmare = FF on. Normal, Easy = FF off. Simple and straightforward.

I'd agree with that

Or like Origins, with easy= 0% FF, Normal=50% FF, Hard and Nightmare= 100% FF

[Ziggeh]

I'm on the fence about friendly fire.



On the one hand I'd like a challenging experience that didn't place me in a situation where one combat system is several orders of magnitude above others (or to put it another way, leaving the dps warriors at home makes the game easier). I like variety and in DA:O I tended to change my approach constantly.



But on the other hand it does remove certain elements of micromanagement from everything but what we're hoping is a very challenging experience. I suppose it entirely depends on how the new combat handles, and so saying whether it's missing or misplaced at this point is premature.

[crimzontearz]

Xewaka wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

streamlining is good oftentimes, point is Sarah, and I have proven this to you before, you are beginning to complain for the sake of complaining, shall we start that argument again? because we know how it's going to end.....

Yet sometimes streamlining comes at the cost of removing features which where experience enhancers for the player. If development keep their word an tie Friendly Fire to Nightmare difficulty, that'd be fine by me. I'd still play on regular the first time to get a hang of the system, then all subsequent runs would be on nightmare. A discriminating Fireball is not a Fireball at all.

Iso camera will still be missed. I can understand the reasoning behind removing it, even if I don't agree with it, as the game loses some appeal to me because of his abscence.

hence why I said "oftentimes" and not always. (also you know we need to wait until we see in person the "pull back camera" feature before we begin to riot about that one)

the subject is also extremely subjective. There are still people (for instance) who believe that multiple actions per turn in the OWoD games -turning each high level combat round (yes each round) into LITERALLY a 15 minutes deal- was better than the streamlined NWoD. As a Storyteller I LOVED the new way....some of the players in my group started crying immediately and thumping their chests because "ZOMG I cannot stab my opponent  3 times in a turn and save 3 actions to parry whatever multiple blows come my way each involving a different roll? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

[Xewaka]

crimzontearz wrote...

the subject is also extremely subjective. There are still people (for instance) who believe that multiple actions per turn in the OWoD games -turning each high level combat round (yes each round) into LITERALLY a 15 minutes deal- was better than the streamlined NWoD. As a Storyteller I LOVED the new way....some of the players in my group started crying immediately and thumping their chests because "ZOMG I cannot stab my opponent  3 times in a turn and save 3 actions to parry whatever multiple blows come my way each involving a different roll? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

Best combat system I saw was, bizarrely enough, on Ars Magica. One roll and you're done for the turn, regardless of what you attempt.

[crimzontearz]

Xewaka wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

the subject is also extremely subjective. There are still people (for instance) who believe that multiple actions per turn in the OWoD games -turning each high level combat round (yes each round) into LITERALLY a 15 minutes deal- was better than the streamlined NWoD. As a Storyteller I LOVED the new way....some of the players in my group started crying immediately and thumping their chests because "ZOMG I cannot stab my opponent  3 times in a turn and save 3 actions to parry whatever multiple blows come my way each involving a different roll? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

Best combat system I saw was, bizarrely enough, on Ars Magica. One roll and you're done for the turn, regardless of what you attempt.

played Ars MAgica for YEARS

and the NWoD system is pretty much the very same

1 roll (aside for a VERY FEW exceptions) and you are done