123 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarielle]

Finally had a female PC that ended up buddying up with Bishop this playthrough. I have heard a lot in passing about the romance being "unfinished" and all, I've seen a mod referenced that "completes" the romance or somesuch and I just have to scratch my head.

It ended exactly as it should have. The only way I could have seen it end, if they kept him true to character. I say this even more having had enough rep to hear his whole story at the end.

Is it just because it isn't happy? Because the closest he gets to "I care" is "I don't hate you?" (lol).

Serious question. It felt plenty finished to me...was actually kind of refreshing that a sexual interlude in the forest was about the most a character in a game like this had to offer long-term.

[I_Raps]

Women always think they can reform the bad boy. It's one of the universal constants.

(They can't. That's another.)

Modifié par I_Raps, 07 décembre 2010 - 04:58 .

[Leinadi]

While I really couldn't stand Bishop as a character, I'm inclined to agree with you in that the character at least feels consistent in a sense and that there is no way to turn him around, reform him, be all cuddly and so forth.



While the romance with Morrigan in DA was more... well, classic romance I suppose, it was the same thing there. In the end, you can't turn her from her beliefs, "bless" her with your love or whatever. You can make her care for you, but in the end she does not abandon her beliefs and goals.



But I think I tend to like more tragic stuff in terms of stories anyways. I have a really hard time swallowing "and they lived happily ever after" type of storytelling. I used to be able to accept that but I just got tired of it somewhere along the way.

[Sarielle]

I loved Bishop as a character. Always entertaining, extremely well voice acted, and honestly pretty believable to me. He was complicated, which I appreciate -- from the outside looking in, that is. A real life Bishop I'm sure I'd just end up wanting to slap, lol.



And hey, I_Raps. I'm female. We aren't all that dumb. xD;

[Leinadi]

Yeah... I'm not really sure why Bishop didn't work for me. I think perhaps they pushed the evilness a bit too far for me. I mean, that can still make sense for his character of course in that he's very outspoken, overtly so, to keep people at a distance. But it's just a character trait that I have a lot of trouble dealing with.



I also think I would've been much more accepting had the developers actually given us a choice in what companions to bring along. For my first character, it simply made *zero* sense to bring a character like Bishop along. And then the game has the audacity to play it up like a dramatic moment when he betrays you and leaves? At that point, I was basically shaking my fist at the screen saying "you forced me into this you damn game, I never wanted to bring him along!"



Twists like that, which are forced upon you even though you never bought into them or even saw through them (it's hardly a surprise after all), are something that I really dislike in games and really makes me feel like I'm watching a movie or hearing a story told *to* me rather than being the driving force myself.

[Seagloom]

There is a thread discussing Bishop at length that gives a clear enough indication of why that is. I think I_Raps covered it succinctly enough. Well, I would not attribute it to *all* women, as I certainly do not feel that way about Bishop, but the women who swoon for him have a different take on his morality that I think contributes to a feeling of being shortchanged by existing content. Some also seem to find the lack of romantic dialogue an oversight rather than intentional omission.

Personally, I never shared those feelings. I understand them on some level, but agree Bishop's story ended the only way it could have. If anything, he was the most detailed party member in NWN2 behind Khelgar and Shandra. Most of the KC's crew had even more of their content left on the cutting room floor. Considering Casavir had nearly his entire past removed and Qara had almost as much cut, I think Bishop made out like a bandit. The only major plot point he missed out on was Red Fallow's Watch, which Obsidian seemingly planned to include at one point in development. Compare that to "Old Owl Well" Casavir.

Modifié par Seagloom, 08 décembre 2010 - 12:54 .

[HoonDing]

I always made sure Bishop doesn't run off with his tails between his legs in the end, so that either Sand or Qara can cast Disintegrate on him.



What most disappoints me about the game is most of the interplay between Sand & Qara being cut. Qara comes off as a spoiled, whiny brat in the actual game, while originally it is the reverse with Sand being jealous and frightened of Qara's talent & power.

[DragonOfWhiteThunder]

Just offering another opinion here, but I'd say part of it stems from the fact that all the romances seem unfinished. The romance-able character you end up learning most about other than Bishop's infodump at the end is Neeshka, and her romance was cut.



Also, virumor, I confess that as far as I'm concerned, Qara is still a spoiled and whiny brat even in the original script.

[kevL]

what really irks me is the 'romance' (read, one night stand) with Elanee. In the morning she just stands beside the bed:
clicky
"What would you like to know?"

um, was it you who sent in the badgers?

"Yes, it was."

err, want to take your clothes off again?

"No."

[Vaalyah]

I don't think the problem is the way the romance ended, while the way the romance has been developed during the entire plot. Try to install the romance pack and re-play the game. You will be able to understand why people says Bishop (and the others) romances are uncompleted, way better.

[kevL]

tks. Now that I've thought about it I might just do that

[Sarielle]

I understand them on some level, but agree Bishop's story ended the only way it could have. If anything, he was the most detailed party member in NWN2 behind Khelgar and Shandra. Most of the KC's crew had even more of their content left on the cutting room floor. Considering Casavir had nearly his entire past removed and Qara had almost as much cut, I think Bishop made out like a bandit. The only major plot point he missed out on was Red Fallow's Watch, which Obsidian seemingly planned to include at one point in development. Compare that to "Old Owl Well" Casavir. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Yeah, Casavir I always blow off -- even when I played a female paladin, LOL.He's not boring because he's good....he's boring because he's utterly one-dimensional. I actually screenshotted quotes I really liked, and realized I had absolutely zero from Casavir. -yawn- I'd rather listen to Bishop being an unrepentant dickwad than talk about Old Owl Well anymore, LOL.

virumor wrote...



I always made sure Bishop doesn't run off with his tails between his legs in the end, so that either Sand or Qara can cast Disintegrate on him.

What most disappoints me about the game is most of the interplay between Sand & Qara being cut. Qara comes off as a spoiled, whiny brat in the actual game, while originally it is the reverse with Sand being jealous and frightened of Qara's talent & power.

LOL. Yeah. My only other character who got along with Bishop up to a certain point was my bard. She was all "shut up, I don't care why you did it" and relished using...crap, what's the single-target version of fascinate?...to leave him standing around all impotent so she could kill him herself. This time though, I actually let him explain xD;

And but but but...Sand had me at "one-tankard drunk." [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

kevL wrote...

what really irks me is the 'romance' (read, one night stand) with Elanee. In the morning she just stands beside the bed:
clicky

"What would you like to know?"

um, was it you who sent in the badgers?

"Yes, it was."

err, want to take your clothes off again?

"No."
../../../images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png

Gods man. Congrats on being able to stomach her. I love it when we go to find the Druids...also known as "Kill Elanee Again Time."

Vaalyah wrote...

I don't think the problem is the way the romance ended, while the way the romance has been developed during the entire plot. Try to install the romance pack and re-play the game. You will be able to understand why people says Bishop (and the others) romances are uncompleted, way better.

Eeeeeh...I have this sneaking suspicion that Bishop is gonna be all...I dunno, sweet/caring? when nobody is looking in that mod. I don't trust them to keep him true to character. I mean...he offers to run off for awhile with you...I always kinda just assume you guys are knocking boots at convenient moments all along, and that's that. I don't want/need a big confession from him or...meh.

Modifié par Sarielle, 10 décembre 2010 - 09:58 .

[Vaalyah]

@Sarielle: first, I am happy to discover I am not the only one that take screenshots of funny dialogues :-D And you are totally right: Casavir IS boring not because he's good, but because he's boring!

In the romance pack, I can assure you that Bishop is just... Bishop. He's not sweet, he's not caring, he's not honey & chocolate. He's Bishop. One of the dialogues I like most is just after the trial. You hear Bishop and Casavir quarrelling and you have the chance to say to them to shut up. You will get a reaction by both of them... I am not going to spoiler it here, but I can assure you that in that situation you can see their personalities have been wonderfully kept! ;-)

[HoonDing]

The romances are pretty awkward when you're playing as a halfling or gnome... staring at people's crotches during every conversation.

I don't hate Elanee since she's a useful partymember. But Neeshka's romance really shouldn't have been taken out of the game. My chaotic good characters never get along with Elanee.

Modifié par virumor, 11 décembre 2010 - 04:49 .

[Sarielle]

virumor wrote...

The romances are pretty awkward when you're playing as a halfling or gnome... staring at people's crotches during every conversation.

LOLOL.  Oh god. You've almost convinced me to do a re-play just for the laughs alone.

[kevL]

Sarielle wrote...

Gods man. Congrats on being able to stomach her. I love it when we go to find the Druids...also known as "Kill Elanee Again Time."

haha, I got a th*ng for elfs. (That's a good fight, btw) I mean, I can understand the 'scr*w now, hug a tree later' attitude, but .. she just stands there!

And I'll third the Casavir is boring line - you get a glimmer that he's p*ss*d some of the upper echelons of Neverwinter off, and that could have led to some great dialog .. but nope.

[Vaalyah]

Ehm, about awkward romance, let me introduce a comic by the talented Epantiras! :-D wonderful!

http://epantiras.dev...set=24#/d1jc8q0

[Sarielle]

kevL wrote...
but .. she just stands there!

And
I'll third the Casavir is boring line - you get a glimmer that he's
p*ss*d some of the upper echelons of Neverwinter off, and that could
have led to some great dialog .. but nope.

Yeah, I
agree. Coudl have been some great fun to be had with that subplot. I
felt really let down when I realized nothing came of it.

Vaalyah wrote...

Ehm, about awkward romance, let me introduce a comic by the talented Epantiras! :-D wonderful!
http://epantiras.dev...set=24#/d1jc8q0

LOL. Bishop and Khelgar's reactions are what makes that.

[kevL]

right on, a Let's pick on Casavir thread!

but that's not *my* Dwarf in the pic (I got a thing for Dwarfs too, but not in that way .. git yer minds outa ther). On the first run-through of the OC I didn't have a clue and chose a Dwarven Fighter to check things out (can't go wrong there). As soon as I saw Khelgar I was like *buddy*!! We were side to side that whole campaign - needless to say, perhaps, I PO'd Elanee off so much on that run she wouldn't join my party .. just stood there sulking in the Flagon (again). With my stuff!

She joined back up for the final battle wit' KoS, tho

[Sarielle]

I actually think the Noble Dwarf origin/story is one of the strongest ones (didn't play commoner elf). Gorim. That, and the City Elf one.



I had to coach myself to not to be frustrated playing such a short character though. xD;

[kevL]

Sarielle wrote...

I actually think the Noble Dwarf origin/story is one of the strongest ones ...

ya .. Qara's was lookin good, but it petered out pretty quick .. Neeshka's is perhaps the second best, at least it comes to a .. conclusion.

[Sarielle]

Er, I was supposed to mention that was in Dragon Age, but I seemed to have left that bit out xD;; I didn't really care to play a dwarf in NwN 2 :3

[kevL]

ah! that makes sense: I'd never seen Khelgar as a 'noble dwarf' - more an ignoble one, returning to roots (though). About DA, back in the day I was worried it was going to render NWN 1/2 obsolete, but as soon as I found out there was no MP .. I'm a stricktly NWN kinda guy.



( now if I could just get this parametric function in a script .. grrufff )

[andiemus22]

In regards ti that comment about Sand and Qara, he's not jealous, if you talk to him it's more about how she acts so irresponsibly with her power and how she's such a whiny little brat. (once she set the flagon on fire, it was all done from there for me.)

[The Fred]

Elanee was a bit creepy (and like most of them her convo lacked a lot of polish) but at least she wasn't annoying as hell like Neeshka, a "spoilt whiny brat" like Qara or just a plain idiot like Bishop. And yeah, Casavir was a bit of a boring character too (I felt like they scratched the surface of something deep, but didn't really get into what it could have been). Personally, Sand was one of my favourite characters, but I agree that they could have played up the Sand/Qara rivalry a bit more, leaving you pondering which one was right, the jealous wizard or the impulsive sorcerer (as it was, Qara was too much of a prat for me to even consider liking her more than Sand, I think, but I would have prefered some more "shades of grey", so to speak).