123 réponses à ce sujet

[kevL]

andiemus22 wrote...

In regards ti that comment about Sand and Qara, he's not jealous, if you talk to him it's more about how she acts so irresponsibly with her power and how she's such a whiny little brat. (once she set the flagon on fire, it was all done from there for me.)

maxim : One person's irresponsibility is another person's threat.

*bangs head on table, careful to move keyboard out of the way first*

[Seagloom]

Casavir's romance summed up in a panel...



Qara and Sand were definitely a missed opportunity. Her hinted at content looked interesting. It was also the only time I saw sorcerer and wizard dynamics played up in a D&D game. Usually they are treated interchangeably despite their very different methods of spellcasting. Of the two, I preferred Sand. He had a caustic wit I found hilarious at times. Qara was thoroughly unlikeable despite my preference for sorcerers in both lore background and mechanics. Any kinship my past sorcerers might have felt for her dissipated after those first few conversations in the Flagon. My most recent sorcerer thought Qara gave them all a bad name. She also found it annoying when Qara assumed her magic was superior, even though my character could kill her with a wink.



I tried to gain positive influence with Qara a few times by bringing her along and playing nice. She has a few good moments. Old Old Well was one of them. Another is when she mentions you being a friend when talking to the academy caretaker later. She shows affection in her way, but it is hard to get past her arrogance and rudeness. Sand's personality is not exactly better; just more conducive to civil conversation.



Neeshka was an idiot. She had some the most nonsensical plans I have ever seen. The whole Leldon story arc was ridiculous. But, I liked Neeshka as a sort of little sister. My character would back her up just to keep an eye on her, and show that she cared. Like a little sister, she could be annoying, but those moments passed. To me KC, Khelgar, and Neeshka are the core group of friends that never stray apart. They started the journey together, and darn it, they are ending it that way too. I never felt comfortable with the idea of a romance for her, but then I play females so... yeah.

[AntiChri5]

I was so attracted to Qara.

[Seagloom]

What did it for you? Was it the hair?

[AntiChri5]

Something about the fire, and the way she talked about the power rushing through her.



All.........primal.......

[Seagloom]

I liked her hair. It was cutely tomboyish. XD Brelaina topped her but I preferred Qara to Neeshka or Elanee. She was at least on par with Shandra. I remember her description of spellcasting making me question if she was like a drug addict. >.< Qara is so eager to blow stuff up. I wonder why that is? Is it to see things burn? Is it the kick she gets from asserting superiority and feeding her ego? Or is it some physical high or sexual thrill? Whatever her reasoning is, I doubt it is cerebral. I could only imagine how crazy a Qara romance would have been. I have an even harder time imagining a lovey dovey relationship for her than I do one for Bishop.

[AntiChri5]

Qara is so eager to blow stuff up. I wonder why that is? Is it to see things burn? Is it the kick she gets from asserting superiority and feeding her ego? Or is it some physical high or sexual thrill? Whatever her reasoning is, I doubt it is cerebral. I could only imagine how crazy a Qara romance would have been.

Hence the attraction.



Crazy super destructive is sooooo sexy.



Remember, i make no claim to sanity.

[HoonDing]

I think if rocks hadn't fallen and killed everyone, Qara would've eventually become a female version of Halaster Blackcloak. I would give an arm and a leg to see that cut scene where she went all Galadriel on Sand.

[Sarielle]

filaminstrel wrote...

Sexual interlude in the forest with Bishop? This happened?

No. He offers...but you never actually get the chance to take him up on it. Something along the lines of "We could just disappear down some hidden trail for a year or two" but I mean...he's obviously not just wanting to camp out and make smores for two years.

lol

EDIT: And yes, Brelaina had the best tomboy hair. Also the most attractive face in the game (imo). I use a mod that lets you use her face, haha.

Modifié par Sarielle, 15 décembre 2010 - 10:05 .

[HoonDing]

andiemus22 wrote...

In regards ti that comment about Sand and Qara, he's not jealous, if you talk to him it's more about how she acts so irresponsibly with her power and how she's such a whiny little brat. (once she set the flagon on fire, it was all done from there for me.)

If Sand betrays your party, he claims Qara is an even bigger threat to the realms than Black Garius & the King of Shadows... without any backing and previous in-game explanation, Sand's reason just comes off as ridiculously outrageous (and imo, it was better to not let Sand & Qara betray your party in the first place, if the rest of their interplay was already cut) joining an ancient evil just because of disliking someone.

Not to mention, was there any reason for the extreme dislike that a centuries old Elf was displaying for a young, immature woman? She was no worse than the other spoiled kids that harassed her, just way more powerful. 
According to the wiki, Sand and Qara's father actually had had dealings in the past, explaining Sand's dislike... but again without this exposition Sand just comes off as petty & cantankerous.

Modifié par virumor, 15 décembre 2010 - 10:37 .

[The Fred]

I guess the Sand betrayal is just to add symmetry to the story; the relationships aren't fleshed out enough for it to make sense, just as I said I don't think they're fleshed out enough for me to be able to dislike Sand (apart from his annoyingness).

[Thiefy]

Actually the romances were cut, but I think with a character like Bishop it works out ok. I loved the bittersweet ending, though wished you could do more with the expansion.



The Neeshka romance though did get pretty short changed.

[Thiefy]

I still wished I could have "saved" him in the expansion, even if he buggered off.



But everyone interprets things differently. Yeah, I can see a natural conclusion with what was given but by the same token, the fangirl in me can also see potential for more.

[ottery]

 People think the romance is unfinished because there are, if I remember correctly, files which indicate that Obsidian was going to give Bishop a "wall" scene of his own.

I'm fine with the romance as it is in the game: doomed and largely implicit. But I would have liked more content for Bishop - a trip to Red Fallows Watch would certainly have been interesting. Looking at the concept art certainly makes me wonder what the game was like in the planning stages. I wish we had the NWN2 OC design document - I'm sure it would make fascinating reading. 

Modifié par ottery, 18 décembre 2010 - 10:22 .

[Sarielle]

Ah, I didn't realize things had been cut. I Bishop's still worked imo. Casavir's, though.... >_<

EDIT: And whoah, that concept art is gorgeous. Unfortunate that wherever that is, didn't make it in.

Modifié par Sarielle, 18 décembre 2010 - 07:16 .

[Vaalyah]

@Thief of Hearts: save Bishop in the expansion? Have a look here

http://nwvault.ign.c...al.Detail&id=61

and here

http://nwvault.ign.c...r.Detail&id=152



@ottery: I really wish Obsidians could finish the game and put it on sell again. I will surely buy the game again, just to have all the "vanished" contents!

[kevL]

Vaalyah wrote...

@ottery: I really wish Obsidians could finish the game and put it on sell again. I will surely buy the game again, just to have all the "vanished" contents!

Yes!

opinion piece : you know, when I look back on it, I think Obsidian took a lot of flak they really don't deserve. I believe they wanted to truly make NWN2 as the great successor to Bioware's original; their hearts were into it, but they were cut short shrift by the 'suits and ties' (they know who they are, but not in the sense of Know Thyself). There were a few things that got maladapted, like not having a purple highlight around your current weapon-combo and not fading sounds & music as you enter a transition, yet even after meeting a rushed release date (they know who they are) they showed a lot of spunk, whot with a dedicated community representative (Rob) and post-release patches .. NWN2 could have been a money-maker for years, with the right management, fairly incorporating community content and releasing modules ala D&D, all while patching and improving and extending the core game!

Anyway, people have it right when they say NWN2 has finally hit its stride. Obsidian seems to have just managed to make the game playable out-of-the-box with patch 1.23 - while for the ambitious and industrious, this game shines like no other. When I load up and see my characters in color-matched outfits, getting into fights some of which they barely survive or even have to retreat and regroup from, and and and and

I wanna new vid-card for X-mas!!!!

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

It was the cut content, really. Oh, i don't mind so much how it ended in game. I found the "rocks fall, everyone dies" ending, even if you get Bishop to bail in the sanctum, to be unbelievably lame.



I too would happily buy the game again just to get the full extent of the original plan.

[Seagloom]

Caladhiel wrote...

I'm guessing that's the reason they gave us Gann-of-Dreams in MotB, to make up for the apparent lack of romance in NWN2... -.-
I for my part was perfectly happy with the way things turned out with Bishop. To me a romance doesn't have to be spelled out, innuendos thrown in here and there can also be very exciting. And let's be honest, the ending was just as it should have been. Bishop's character would prevent him from being anything more than a fling, anyway - a person who will not be tied down (no, not even by the gorgeous, breathtaking and caring PC) is not suited for the 'happily ever after' ending. It gave his story just so much more credibility...

Yup, pretty much. If I remember right a dev more or less revealed this point blank on the old NWN2 forums. We are unlikely to ever see an Obsidian romance as flowery and complete as a BioWare version though. Chris Avellone is not the type to write tidy endings to romances, and has expressed several times his preference for impossible relationships, tragedy, and(or) unrequited love. Granted, George Ziets was lead writer for "Mask of the Betrayer", but Avellone fills that role for most of Obsidian's other games. The chances of ever seeing something like an Alistair relationship with flowery exchanges, innuendo, and a possible kinda happy ending are slim.

That said, I wish there were more romances like Bishop in the sense that they do not end flawlessly. Perhaps the only thing I liked about Bishop is he stayed true to his character from start to finish. He never softened or became anything more than an evil muffin. I think whoever wrote Elanee dropped the ball though. She throws out hints of stalking KC, but there is rarely, if ever, a sense of affection attached to those clues or her dialogue. I can only think of one or two. Then all of a sudden she wants to bed the player character? It was all so WTFBBQ.

Modifié par Seagloom, 19 décembre 2010 - 11:48 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

That is one of the reasons I liked Bishop's "romance" in game, as is, though I wished they had left the trip to Red Fallows Watch in so there would be a bit more. But tragic or fatally doomed romances I do like better than happy endings, for the most part.



I liked casavir just fine, but they really did not implement his romance very well. I mean, he pretty much declares his affections for ANY PC, no matter how twisted, corrupt, and wicked, or how low one's influence is with him, which is not only totally OOC for a Paladin, but pretty much an emersion killer at that point.



I mean, when my LE tiefling Warlock/Blackguard of Loviatar who has kicked every puppy and shoved old ladys into the path of oncomming buses, has Casavir talking about what a shining "light" she is (with like -30 influence or so), it really ruins the special feature of in game romances and creates a serious WTF moment.



The "rocks fall, everyone dies" ending was cheap and tacky, I ended up writing a fic regarding it's ridiculousness. What was the point?



Pheh.

[The Fred]

Romances not ending happily I can deal with - in fact in many ways they're more interesting - but everyone being crushed by rocks is a lame way of not letting your companions come with you into the sequel. At least they coud have had them all be murdered by some sort of arch-nemesis or something - in fact, that'd give you a great reason to find and kill the bad guy, rather than the usual.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The Fred wrote...

Romances not ending happily I can deal with - in fact in many ways they're more interesting - but everyone being crushed by rocks is a lame way of not letting your companions come with you into the sequel. At least they coud have had them all be murdered by some sort of arch-nemesis or something - in fact, that'd give you a great reason to find and kill the bad guy, rather than the usual.

Look at BG2, for example. The killed off some of your old BG1 companions, but did so in a way that added to the overall story (jaheira and Khalid/Minsc and Dynaheir come to mind).

So yeah, cheap ass, lazy writing for the ending. Pheh. Disgraceful, really.